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Is Mandatory Government and Military service that bad?

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Is Mandatory Government and Military service that bad?

Yes
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58%
No
63
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Total votes : 149

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Saint Yosx
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Is Mandatory Government and Military service that bad?

Postby Saint Yosx » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:36 am

Not too long ago I was reading a Vox opinion article on what they think will be considered “unacceptable” or “socially acceptable “ in the future. One thing that peaked my interest was that they thought ending the draft would be seen as a mistake. When I read why they thought this way, it really just changed my POV on how I thought of a draft. For those who do not know what a draft is a draft is where every U.S citizen would serve in the military.

I think a draft would allow people from all walks of life to learn more about this nation and to also help contribute to society besides taxes. It would also teach respect and help build up values like honesty, strength and courage.

Now what do you think NSG? What do you think of conscription?

(My ideal form of conscription is where not everyone serves combat roles if they would not like to, is they have some choice in how they contribute. Also it would be a year or two once they hit 18.)

(Also you can choose to serve in different ways Not only combat )
Last edited by Saint Yosx on Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:53 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Wink Wonk We Like Stonks
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Postby Wink Wonk We Like Stonks » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:38 am

any job without a choice is bad, not to mention a military one.
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:38 am

The draft was ended for a reason in the US, and that’s because the government used it to send tens of thousands of American soldiers to their deaths in an extremely unpopular war.

Anyway, the draft isn’t really gone. Selective service is still a thing in the US, which means that if the draft is needed for another war they’ll just bring it back and start drafting people.
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Saint Yosx
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Postby Saint Yosx » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:40 am

Adamede wrote:The draft was ended for a reason in the US, and that’s because the government used it to send tens of thousands of American soldiers to their deaths in an extremely unpopular war.

Anyway, the draft isn’t really gone. Selective service is still a thing in the US, which means that if the draft is needed for another war they’ll just bring it back and start drafting people.



I do think that the Vietnam draft is not the best example, as it forced people into combat, I think allowing people to have at least some autonomy when it comes to how they serve would avoid unesscary death and grief.
Last edited by Saint Yosx on Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:41 am

Saint Yosx wrote:
Adamede wrote:The draft was ended for a reason in the US, and that’s because the government used it to send tens of thousands of American soldiers to their deaths in an extremely unpopular war.

Anyway, the draft isn’t really gone. Selective service is still a thing in the US, which means that if the draft is needed for another war they’ll just bring it back and start drafting people.



I do think that the Vietnam draft is not the best example, as it forced people into combat, I think allowing people to have at least some autonomy when it comes to how they serve would avoid unesscary death and grief.

That’s literally not how conscription works.

With conscription the military puts you where it decides it needs you. That may be a mechanic, a pilot, or on a grunt.
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Postby Honeydewistania » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:41 am

It is that bad. You are sent to fight for your life against your will in a war you may or may not support.
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:42 am

The draft should be reinstated but we should offer the possibility of non-military service. So you could have the draft send people into a CCC type program, or agriculture related services, or environmental services, or medical services in addition to military service.
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Postby Saint Yosx » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:43 am

Thermodolia wrote:The draft should be reinstated but we should offer the possibility of non-military service. So you could have the draft send people into a CCC type program, or agriculture related services, or environmental services, or medical services in addition to military service.



That makes sense. I don’t think everyone is fit to go into combat and be on the front lines.

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Postby Adamede » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:43 am

Thermodolia wrote:The draft should be reinstated but we should offer the possibility of non-military service. So you could have the draft send people into a CCC type program, or agriculture related services, or environmental services, or medical services in addition to military service.

Something something service equals citizenship something something
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:45 am

Yes it is, and if you conscript me to fight a stupid corporate war or war for some fascist's dreams of glory, im simply gonna walk away and go AWOL.

Fuck war in general.
Last edited by Borderlands of Rojava on Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Wink Wonk We Like Stonks » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:49 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Yes it is, and if you conscript me to fight a stupid corporate war or war for some fascist's dreams of glory, im simply gonna walk away and go AWOL.

Fuck war in general.

based
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Tranzoria
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Postby Tranzoria » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:52 am

Let's look at examples of places that have Conscriptions. Israel, for example.
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:53 am

Being conscripted in a country that never goes to war wouldn't be so bad.

Being conscripted in America is basically a death sentence.
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Esalia
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Postby Esalia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:57 am

I'm only okay with conscription if a) there's a non-military equivalent for those who don't want to fight or b) the country desperately needs it.

Otherwise, I don't see the need for it nor can I support it, even if it has benefits.
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:01 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Being conscripted in a country that never goes to war wouldn't be so bad.

Being conscripted in America is basically a death sentence.

Being conscripted doesn’t always mean you are sent into the military or the front lines. You could be conscripted into a public works program which will train you and give you a lot better skills than not.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:01 am

Esalia wrote:I'm only okay with conscription if a) there's a non-military equivalent for those who don't want to fight or b) the country desperately needs it.

Otherwise, I don't see the need for it nor can I support it, even if it has benefits.

Kinda like this:
Thermodolia wrote:The draft should be reinstated but we should offer the possibility of non-military service. So you could have the draft send people into a CCC type program, or agriculture related services, or environmental services, or medical services in addition to military service.
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Saint Yosx
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Postby Saint Yosx » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:08 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Esalia wrote:I'm only okay with conscription if a) there's a non-military equivalent for those who don't want to fight or b) the country desperately needs it.

Otherwise, I don't see the need for it nor can I support it, even if it has benefits.

Kinda like this:
Thermodolia wrote:The draft should be reinstated but we should offer the possibility of non-military service. So you could have the draft send people into a CCC type program, or agriculture related services, or environmental services, or medical services in addition to military service.



Exactly. I think more than ever we need a program just like the CCC, to get people back to work and providing them with skills to live a happy and successful life.

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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:12 am

As someone who has been drafted, but in Singapore, ahh... I guess I can't say much because of a combination of reasons:

- NDA / Secrets Act. I can tell you what I did in general, but I can't tell you in details. I was a Security guy for military installations, then went into Artillery. Again, all training or defensive, I didn't get deployed into an actual warzone.
- We don't really fight a war, like at all. Most of the Singaporeans don't see battle in the slightest. All we do is domestic training and defense, or military exercises with other countries (Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, US, etc...)
- It is more of National Service here, or NS as we call it. No relation!

So, it is a bit skewed from me that conscription is okay with me, but that's only because we are honed in on our disciplinary skills, firearms, and all that without the "go to actual war" thing. Of additional note is that conscription doesn't necessarily mean military here. You can go into Navy, Air Force, Police, Fire Dept., etc... You can even become a Combat Medic who will most likely be treating bleeding dummies (the actual training dummies).

Some people really do hate the 2 years, but for me, it's a mix. Basic sucks big time, but life gets better and a little slacker eventually. That, and having to go back for 1-2 weeks of re-service training is awesome because that's your excuse from work. Your workplace has to give you that excuse, or they will have a fun time explaining to the Singapore Govt as to why Valentine cannot come back for training.

-----

Fun fact with US: Back when you guys have conscription, like way back in the Civil War, there's a loophole where you can pay $300 ($5000 in today's money) in order to skip the draft and have another poor sod to fight a war for you. That predictably started a rich-poor fights in itself whereby people were understandably pissed that some felt they were too good to fight. "Amongst the people who bought their way out of battle were Grover Cleveland, John D. Rockefeller, J.P. Morgan, Andrew Carnegie, George Templeton Strong, and Abraham Lincoln -- although that last one had a pretty good reason to stay out of the trenches." (from Cracked.com, with actual link to National Archives).
Last edited by Valentine Z on Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:43 am, edited 6 times in total.


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Postby Esalia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:12 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Esalia wrote:I'm only okay with conscription if a) there's a non-military equivalent for those who don't want to fight or b) the country desperately needs it.

Otherwise, I don't see the need for it nor can I support it, even if it has benefits.

Kinda like this:
Thermodolia wrote:The draft should be reinstated but we should offer the possibility of non-military service. So you could have the draft send people into a CCC type program, or agriculture related services, or environmental services, or medical services in addition to military service.


Pretty much, yeah.
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:33 am

Some limited form of national service would be good to make people earn citizenship beyond taxes with a greater sense of unity, but full-on conscription isn't justified unless the country faces an existential crisis.
Last edited by SD_Film Artists on Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Saint Yosx » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:35 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:Some limited form of national service would be good to make people earn citizenship beyond taxes with a greater sense of unity, but full-on conscription isn't justified unless the country faces a existential crisis.



Then again we do have Jury duty which is sort of like a conscription in a way. A conscription would insure we have people to fall back on just in case of disaster.

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Postby Greater Cesnica » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:37 am

Yes, yes it is. Not only is it a flagrant violation of one's civil liberties, but may be forced to fight in a war that you might not even support.
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:38 am

Saint Yosx wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:Some limited form of national service would be good to make people earn citizenship beyond taxes with a greater sense of unity, but full-on conscription isn't justified unless the country faces a existential crisis.



Then again we do have Jury duty which is sort of like a conscription in a way. A conscription would insure we have people to fall back on just in case of disaster.


We could achieve the same with national service, training people so they are more ready to be called for duty in the event of a national crisis.
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Arisyan
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Postby Arisyan » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:38 am

Yes. It is. Its really that simple. Its bad.
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New American Unionist State
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Postby New American Unionist State » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:39 am

I mean. South korea is makin it work ;)

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