NATION

PASSWORD

Why do we champion socialism/communism anyway?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Australian rePublic
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17348
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Why do we champion socialism/communism anyway?

Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:45 pm

Many left-wing places tend to champion communism. My question is why? Sure, capitalism can be, and often is, taken too far, companies can be above the law, but what we need for that is better regulation, not socialism. Socialism simply doesn't work. Everywhere that's tried socialism has turned itself into a shithole- Russia, under the communists, was a shithole. Sure, it wasn't the most democratic place under the Tsar, but it wasn't that much of a shithole. China- I know what everyone's gonna say "China is capitalist"- Yes, China is less communist now, than it was 30 years ago, but it's also less of a shithole now than it was 30 years ago. Coincidence? Venezuela- Venezuela is a shit hole, at least partially due to socialism. North Korea- shit hole, etc. etc. etc.

Yet, we have Westerners who champion this crap. Almost anyone who has lived in a socialist country will tell you, through their first hand experience, that socialism is shit. Sure, capitalism isn't perfect, and unregulated capitalism causes a lot of problems. In my opinion, the best balance is centrist/left-leaning capitalism, like we have in Australia, the Nordic countries and parts of Europe. And sure, America takes capitalism way, way too far, but I'd rather live in America than any socialist country, and most people would agree. And sure, there are poor people under capitalism, but far fewer than what there are under communism. My question is, why do people champion socialism/communism? It f**king sucks!
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian.
Why stylised as "rePublic"
16 Published Issues and 1 WA Resolution
Issue Ideas You Can Steal

User avatar
Joshenia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 51
Founded: Feb 16, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Joshenia » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:51 pm

Simply put the idea of communism itself presents us with a utopia where everyone is equal in wealth and social status but this idea cannot work because of human nature and other factors in its purest form the same way capitalism has never been practiced in its purest form. It is championed because the idea is beautiful and makes people feel good. Well all want good things after all.
Last edited by Joshenia on Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bombadil
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10982
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:03 pm

Joshenia wrote:Simply put the idea of communism itself presents us with a utopia where everyone is equal in wealth and social status but this idea cannot work because of human nature and other factors in its purest form the same way capitalism has never been practiced in its purest form. It is championed because the idea is beautiful and makes people feel good. Well all want good things after all.


Well I'm sure they said democracy, women's rights, end of slavery etc., couldn't work because of human nature as well.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

User avatar
Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40790
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:05 pm

Capitalism doesn't like it very much when you try to regulate it or put restraints on it. Governments are pressured into reducing regulations to keep businesses from moving away and to retain market confidence, commercial news media reflects its interests, and people tend to think short-term and think they're better off if consumer goods are cheaper even if social services are being slashed to permit lower taxes - right up until the minute they end up requiring them. The constant barrage of advertising helps bolster this faulty logic and disguise what is being taken away.

It is no coincidence that social democracy is in a decades-long retreat - without the plausible threat of imminent revolution capital is able to force a gradual slide to the bottom by using its power to tighten and narrow the parameters in which governments can operate.

Thinking you can change capitalism is like thinking you can change an abusive partner. It's about fundamental dynamics of control that are at the core of the relationship.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Tʜᴇ Sᴛʀᴀssᴇʀɪsᴛ Sᴜɴᴅᴀᴇ Cʟᴜʙ ᴏғ Dᴜᴍʙ Iᴅᴇᴏʟᴏɢɪᴇs
¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸ One People, One Nation, Many Puddings ¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸
The thirty-something tsundere trans cryptofascist nobody warned you about
♆ P ᴀ x D I ᴀ ʙ ᴏ ʟ ɪ ᴄ ᴀ ♆

User avatar
-Astoria
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 358
Founded: Mar 14, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby -Astoria » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:10 pm

Hold up - which one specifically are you going against?

Also, sounds a little bloggy...
Main stuff
|Anthem
|Climate
Ø| Defences
|Embassy
|Leader
|Policies
Misc stuff
|A-scale
|Food
|L-plates
|News
|Tropes
|Q&A
≈⭐Federal Republic of Astoria⭐≈
To be, rather than to seem.

$LFD | Tech: MT/PMT/FanT | Year: 2019 | Theme: |
A 9.74 civilisation according to this index. | A class 0.6 civilisation according to this index.
Posts of win | g'night everybody | Thoughts about Astoria | Me | The Yuyencia files
- 'That theory was tested back in the '40s: toons can't kill people unless they've been completely corrupted.' - bystander
- Contrary to what some people may believe, humans do exist in Astoria, and measure up to about half of the population.
- The death penalty is a symptom of a culture of violence, not a solution to it. Change my mind.

User avatar
Miami Shores
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1321
Founded: Jul 19, 2008
Anarchy

Postby Miami Shores » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:13 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:Many left-wing places tend to champion communism. My question is why? Sure, capitalism can be, and often is, taken too far, companies can be above the law, but what we need for that is better regulation, not socialism. Socialism simply doesn't work. Everywhere that's tried socialism has turned itself into a shithole- Russia, under the communists, was a shithole. Sure, it wasn't the most democratic place under the Tsar, but it wasn't that much of a shithole. China- I know what everyone's gonna say "China is capitalist"- Yes, China is less communist now, than it was 30 years ago, but it's also less of a shithole now than it was 30 years ago. Coincidence? Venezuela- Venezuela is a shit hole, at least partially due to socialism. North Korea- shit hole, etc. etc. etc.

Yet, we have Westerners who champion this crap. Almost anyone who has lived in a socialist country will tell you, through their first hand experience, that socialism is shit. Sure, capitalism isn't perfect, and unregulated capitalism causes a lot of problems. In my opinion, the best balance is centrist/left-leaning capitalism, like we have in Australia, the Nordic countries and parts of Europe. And sure, America takes capitalism way, way too far, but I'd rather live in America than any socialist country, and most people would agree. And sure, there are poor people under capitalism, but far fewer than what there are under communism. My question is, why do people champion socialism/communism? It f**king sucks!

Your forgot to mention Cuba as a communist socialist shithole nation, I know from experience. On paper communist socialism is nice, the problem is once all the means of production are owned by the state or the people, their cant be any opposition to anything and it creates an automatic dictatorship.
Last edited by Miami Shores on Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All General and RP threads need a good Poll. lol.I will never take a fellow nation before the Mod Gods and our Almighty Goddess Violet for anyreasons, even if it is a negative statement against me.IamaProudHispanic Latino RepublicanProTrump,America,illegal immigration laws,IsraelandtheJewish People.Anti open borders illegal immigration, Democrat Leftists,anti commie socialists as it has been practiced all over the world.But I respect their democratic right to their views and their right to Post them.I am an RP addict withreal world nations,regional world named nations,with real world leaders and statistics,I don't use NS stats, I hate NS stats.I love NS, RPs, math, accounting, bookkeeping, statistics, percentages %, history, geography, biograpy im a map a holic, pic a holic and copy holic.

User avatar
Australian rePublic
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17348
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:13 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Joshenia wrote:Simply put the idea of communism itself presents us with a utopia where everyone is equal in wealth and social status but this idea cannot work because of human nature and other factors in its purest form the same way capitalism has never been practiced in its purest form. It is championed because the idea is beautiful and makes people feel good. Well all want good things after all.


Well I'm sure they said democracy, women's rights, end of slavery etc., couldn't work because of human nature as well.

The difference is, when democracy, women's rights and the end of slavery were tried in practice, everyone benefited. Contrary to socialism, when socialism was tried, in practice, everything turned to shit. We're not talking hypotheticals, we're talking real results
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian.
Why stylised as "rePublic"
16 Published Issues and 1 WA Resolution
Issue Ideas You Can Steal

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5755
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:15 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Joshenia wrote:Simply put the idea of communism itself presents us with a utopia where everyone is equal in wealth and social status but this idea cannot work because of human nature and other factors in its purest form the same way capitalism has never been practiced in its purest form. It is championed because the idea is beautiful and makes people feel good. Well all want good things after all.


Well I'm sure they said democracy, women's rights, end of slavery etc., couldn't work because of human nature as well.

We have working cases of democracy. Communism cannot boast something like that.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: May 23, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pacomia » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:16 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
Well I'm sure they said democracy, women's rights, end of slavery etc., couldn't work because of human nature as well.

The difference is, when democracy, women's rights and the end of slavery were tried in practice, everyone benefited. Contrary to socialism, when socialism was tried, in practice, everything turned to shit. We're not talking hypotheticals, we're talking real results

Socialism worked out alright in Chile before Pinochet came along and ruined it.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.87547 (similar to Malta)
Also known as Dollar Store Kowani_________#EternalLotharia2020

User avatar
Grand Proudhonia
Envoy
 
Posts: 330
Founded: Aug 23, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grand Proudhonia » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:16 pm

Its inevitable and will lead to a much better society in general
The Mutualist Society of Grand Proudhonia
"Property Is Theft, Property Is Liberty"


If you have any questions about Mutualist Political Philosophy, feel free to send me a telegram!

User avatar
Australian rePublic
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17348
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:16 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Capitalism doesn't like it very much when you try to regulate it or put restraints on it. Governments are pressured into reducing regulations to keep businesses from moving away and to retain market confidence, commercial news media reflects its interests, and people tend to think short-term and think they're better off if consumer goods are cheaper even if social services are being slashed to permit lower taxes - right up until the minute they end up requiring them. The constant barrage of advertising helps bolster this faulty logic and disguise what is being taken away.

It is no coincidence that social democracy is in a decades-long retreat - without the plausible threat of imminent revolution capital is able to force a gradual slide to the bottom by using its power to tighten and narrow the parameters in which governments can operate.

Which is why a balance between the two systems. Something like what already exists in places like Australia, New Zealand, and many parts of Europe

Miami Shores wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Many left-wing places tend to champion communism. My question is why? Sure, capitalism can be, and often is, taken too far, companies can be above the law, but what we need for that is better regulation, not socialism. Socialism simply doesn't work. Everywhere that's tried socialism has turned itself into a shithole- Russia, under the communists, was a shithole. Sure, it wasn't the most democratic place under the Tsar, but it wasn't that much of a shithole. China- I know what everyone's gonna say "China is capitalist"- Yes, China is less communist now, than it was 30 years ago, but it's also less of a shithole now than it was 30 years ago. Coincidence? Venezuela- Venezuela is a shit hole, at least partially due to socialism. North Korea- shit hole, etc. etc. etc.

Yet, we have Westerners who champion this crap. Almost anyone who has lived in a socialist country will tell you, through their first hand experience, that socialism is shit. Sure, capitalism isn't perfect, and unregulated capitalism causes a lot of problems. In my opinion, the best balance is centrist/left-leaning capitalism, like we have in Australia, the Nordic countries and parts of Europe. And sure, America takes capitalism way, way too far, but I'd rather live in America than any socialist country, and most people would agree. And sure, there are poor people under capitalism, but far fewer than what there are under communism. My question is, why do people champion socialism/communism? It f**king sucks!

Your forgot to mention Cuba as a communist socialist shithole nation
,
Yes, Cuba too. I'm not going to catalogue the economic systems of every individual country,

I know from experience. On paper communist socialism is nice, the problem is once all the means of production are owned by the state or the people, their cant be any opposition to anything and it creates an automatic dictatorship.

Yes, well, exactly
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian.
Why stylised as "rePublic"
16 Published Issues and 1 WA Resolution
Issue Ideas You Can Steal

User avatar
Grand Proudhonia
Envoy
 
Posts: 330
Founded: Aug 23, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grand Proudhonia » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:17 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
Well I'm sure they said democracy, women's rights, end of slavery etc., couldn't work because of human nature as well.

We have working cases of democracy. Communism cannot boast something like that.

We have working cases of feudalism. Capitalism cannot boast something like that.
The Mutualist Society of Grand Proudhonia
"Property Is Theft, Property Is Liberty"


If you have any questions about Mutualist Political Philosophy, feel free to send me a telegram!

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5755
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:19 pm

Grand Proudhonia wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:We have working cases of democracy. Communism cannot boast something like that.

We have working cases of feudalism. Capitalism cannot boast something like that.

While I see where you're coming from, communism was given numerous tries already. If it was given no tries or only a few, that argument that it simply was not given that opportunity would stand.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Joshenia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 51
Founded: Feb 16, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Joshenia » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:20 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Joshenia wrote:Simply put the idea of communism itself presents us with a utopia where everyone is equal in wealth and social status but this idea cannot work because of human nature and other factors in its purest form the same way capitalism has never been practiced in its purest form. It is championed because the idea is beautiful and makes people feel good. Well all want good things after all.


Well I'm sure they said democracy, women's rights, end of slavery etc., couldn't work because of human nature as well.

The way democracy is on paper and the way it is practiced is different. The fallacy and beauty of communism looks good on paper but in practice it is different and this has cost more lives than capitalism (liberal democracy). Human nature prevents us from having a utopia and to be frank another person's utopia is another's dystopia. Communism is capitalists dystopia.
Last edited by Joshenia on Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Aethergestra
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Sep 21, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Aethergestra » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:21 pm

So many threads blaming the left for all their ills. When will it end? Saying socialism doesn’t work and such is just going to make socialists who believe it will work or inevitably fail upset or angry so please stop.Like capitalists and the right-winger types are any better. Allowing tax breaks for rich people or preaching against globalism when globalism is what keeps our modern world going.
Such backwards thinking and traditional thought from conservatives is not progress for fuck’s sake.

User avatar
Miami Shores
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1321
Founded: Jul 19, 2008
Anarchy

Postby Miami Shores » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:21 pm

All the so called democratic socialist nations and governments of Europe rely on a capitalist economy of small private businesses and large corporations.
All General and RP threads need a good Poll. lol.I will never take a fellow nation before the Mod Gods and our Almighty Goddess Violet for anyreasons, even if it is a negative statement against me.IamaProudHispanic Latino RepublicanProTrump,America,illegal immigration laws,IsraelandtheJewish People.Anti open borders illegal immigration, Democrat Leftists,anti commie socialists as it has been practiced all over the world.But I respect their democratic right to their views and their right to Post them.I am an RP addict withreal world nations,regional world named nations,with real world leaders and statistics,I don't use NS stats, I hate NS stats.I love NS, RPs, math, accounting, bookkeeping, statistics, percentages %, history, geography, biograpy im a map a holic, pic a holic and copy holic.

User avatar
Bombadil
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10982
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:22 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
Well I'm sure they said democracy, women's rights, end of slavery etc., couldn't work because of human nature as well.

The difference is, when democracy, women's rights and the end of slavery were tried in practice, everyone benefited. Contrary to socialism, when socialism was tried, in practice, everything turned to shit. We're not talking hypotheticals, we're talking real results


A number of times in Ancient Greek, Athens democracy was overthrown seen as ruining the city, weakening it and leading to defeat in Sicily and then by the Spartans.

Democracy can be two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

Not that I'm against democracy and I believe it can work in a socialist system regardless, just I wouldn't write off what is essentially a new system built off ideals, that it's been implemented in a poor manner is more to do with the breakdown of colonialism spearheaded by revolutionaries as opposed to an evolving socialist state.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

User avatar
Grand Proudhonia
Envoy
 
Posts: 330
Founded: Aug 23, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grand Proudhonia » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:23 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Grand Proudhonia wrote:We have working cases of feudalism. Capitalism cannot boast something like that.

While I see where you're coming from, communism was given numerous tries already. If it was given no tries or only a few, that argument that it simply was not given that opportunity would stand.

Marxist thought has really only been applied in a few cases compared to the evolution of Capitalism... Capitalism had growing pains and so is Communism... The difference is that Capitalism was a relatively natural evolution from Feudal systems whilst socialists tend to try to force the system in when society is not ready for it. Communism is as inevitable as capitalism, we can see that with the expansion of automation and technology which will make market systems obsolete...
The Mutualist Society of Grand Proudhonia
"Property Is Theft, Property Is Liberty"


If you have any questions about Mutualist Political Philosophy, feel free to send me a telegram!

User avatar
Grand Proudhonia
Envoy
 
Posts: 330
Founded: Aug 23, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grand Proudhonia » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:24 pm

Miami Shores wrote:All the so called democratic socialist nations and governments of Europe rely on a capitalist economy of small private businesses and large corporations.

They are not socialist in any aspect so
The Mutualist Society of Grand Proudhonia
"Property Is Theft, Property Is Liberty"


If you have any questions about Mutualist Political Philosophy, feel free to send me a telegram!

User avatar
Grand Proudhonia
Envoy
 
Posts: 330
Founded: Aug 23, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grand Proudhonia » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:24 pm

Aethergestra wrote:So many threads blaming the left for all their ills. When will it end? Saying socialism doesn’t work and such is just going to make socialists who believe it will work or inevitably fail upset or angry so please stop.Like capitalists and the right-winger types are any better. Allowing tax breaks for rich people or preaching against globalism when globalism is what keeps our modern world going.
Such backwards thinking and traditional thought from conservatives is not progress for fuck’s sake.

Srs though we have had like eight of these threads in the past month
The Mutualist Society of Grand Proudhonia
"Property Is Theft, Property Is Liberty"


If you have any questions about Mutualist Political Philosophy, feel free to send me a telegram!

User avatar
Joshenia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 51
Founded: Feb 16, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Joshenia » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:25 pm

Aethergestra wrote:So many threads blaming the left for all their ills. When will it end? Saying socialism doesn’t work and such is just going to make socialists who believe it will work or inevitably fail upset or angry so please stop.Like capitalists and the right-winger types are any better. Allowing tax breaks for rich people or preaching against globalism when globalism is what keeps our modern world going.
Such backwards thinking and traditional thought from conservatives is not progress for fuck’s sake.

but that is what all sides do, the left blames the right and the right blames the left. The left and the right blame the centre for being indecisive.

User avatar
Miami Shores
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1321
Founded: Jul 19, 2008
Anarchy

Postby Miami Shores » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:25 pm

Grand Proudhonia wrote:
Miami Shores wrote:All the so called democratic socialist nations and governments of Europe rely on a capitalist economy of small private businesses and large corporations.

They are not socialist in any aspect so

That is my point too, that is why I posted it.
All General and RP threads need a good Poll. lol.I will never take a fellow nation before the Mod Gods and our Almighty Goddess Violet for anyreasons, even if it is a negative statement against me.IamaProudHispanic Latino RepublicanProTrump,America,illegal immigration laws,IsraelandtheJewish People.Anti open borders illegal immigration, Democrat Leftists,anti commie socialists as it has been practiced all over the world.But I respect their democratic right to their views and their right to Post them.I am an RP addict withreal world nations,regional world named nations,with real world leaders and statistics,I don't use NS stats, I hate NS stats.I love NS, RPs, math, accounting, bookkeeping, statistics, percentages %, history, geography, biograpy im a map a holic, pic a holic and copy holic.

User avatar
Australian rePublic
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17348
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:25 pm

Aethergestra wrote:So many threads blaming the left for all their ills. When will it end? Saying socialism doesn’t work and such is just going to make socialists who believe it will work or inevitably fail upset or angry so please stop.Like capitalists and the right-winger types are any better. Allowing tax breaks for rich people or preaching against globalism when globalism is what keeps our modern world going.
Such backwards thinking and traditional thought from conservatives is not progress for fuck’s sake.

If you had bothered to read a single I said, outside of the thread title, I've already condemned all everything you have stated.
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian.
Why stylised as "rePublic"
16 Published Issues and 1 WA Resolution
Issue Ideas You Can Steal

User avatar
NoAvailability
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 21
Founded: May 28, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby NoAvailability » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:29 pm

Fairly simple really: Without some socialist aspects, society would suck, therefore some people look at it and go "hey, the more the better, right?"

That, of course, is untrue. While a social democracy, the form we have right now (roughly) is indeed a relatively healthy form of government as long as right-wing-extremists and other... "people" of the same caliber on the other side of the fence are not given quarter, too much socialism will cause the system to collapse for a variety of reasons you can just look up in other countries, much in the same way communism failed. These can be solved with enough infrastructure, technically, but that'd require the infrastructure to be present in the first place.

A LACK of social policies, or otherwise a pure meritocracy, will instead have us regress back to the middle ages, with a small oligarchy ruling over people who have not been economically successful, doubly so now that labor is as dirt-cheap as it is. Anyone not rich can easily be cut out of the equation and replaced with simple trades of rich between rich, as the masses will neither have produce they want nor labor they want, and since the masses will not have the infrastructure necessary to ship or produce advanced goods, they will not rise up into the oligarchy either. You can make a few regulations that would stop this kinda collapse, but well... Then you wouldn't have a pureblooded meritocracy anymore.

My overall assumption is thus that an increase in infrastructure causes people to champion a cause which might become more valid as technology advances as opposed to one which is already hardly sustainable and will only grow worse as time passes. Still, all in all, I believe most forms of society fall short of what we have right now, sooner or later. Which has been extensively tested, by the way: We've had society for some twenty-two thousand years. If you have an argument as for what would be a "better form" which is not based on new technological changes, I'm fairly certain it's been tried, been tested, and crashed and burned spectacularly, as it's not around anymore. Shifting our current model left or right a bit might cause some positive things, but any radical changes will likely turn out for the worse.

User avatar
Technoscience Leftwing
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 116
Founded: Jan 24, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Technoscience Leftwing » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:33 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:Many left-wing places tend to champion communism. My question is why? Sure, capitalism can be, and often is, taken too far, companies can be above the law, but what we need for that is better regulation, not socialism. Socialism simply doesn't work. Everywhere that's tried socialism has turned itself into a shithole- Russia, under the communists, was a shithole. Sure, it wasn't the most democratic place under the Tsar, but it wasn't that much of a shithole. China- I know what everyone's gonna say "China is capitalist"- Yes, China is less communist now, than it was 30 years ago, but it's also less of a shithole now than it was 30 years ago. Coincidence? Venezuela- Venezuela is a shit hole, at least partially due to socialism. North Korea- shit hole, etc. etc. etc.

Yet, we have Westerners who champion this crap. Almost anyone who has lived in a socialist country will tell you, through their first hand experience, that socialism is shit. Sure, capitalism isn't perfect, and unregulated capitalism causes a lot of problems. In my opinion, the best balance is centrist/left-leaning capitalism, like we have in Australia, the Nordic countries and parts of Europe. And sure, America takes capitalism way, way too far, but I'd rather live in America than any socialist country, and most people would agree. And sure, there are poor people under capitalism, but far fewer than what there are under communism. My question is, why do people champion socialism/communism? It f**king sucks!


* Objections about practical failures were at the first steps of aviation. It was said that vehicles heavier than air, in principle, could not fly up, and this theory was confirmed by a number of aircraft crashes. But the conclusion about the impossibility of aviation was premature, after the first catastrophes it was possible to create successfully flying aircraft.
* The success of socialism depends, according to Marx, on the level of technological development. The collapse was caused by an insufficient level of development of the material and technical base in the twentieth century, that's all. Technologies continue to develop, in the twenty-first century they can give the best result and serve as the basis for successful socialism.
* Sympathy for socialism arises when searching for a caring society; people too weak for participation and victory in fierce competition need it. And there are a lot of such people.
* Compared with many capitalist countries of the "third world", the socialist countries have achieved success in industry, education. Compare Cuba and Haiti. Why do you compare the countries that were initially backward (Russia, China) with the developed flagships of capitalism (USA, Great Britain)? It is necessary to compare the comparable. It is necessary to take into account the different starting positions of these countries. After all, Russia in 1917 and China in 1949 were agrarian countries, and suddenly such an impressive industrial breakthrough after the communists came to power.
Last edited by Technoscience Leftwing on Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
* TLC Factbook
* Goal: increase comfort, technical capabilities and knowledge for most people.
* Pro: technicalism, social equality, cosmopolitanism, scientific atheism, revolutionism, emancipation.
* Contra: technophobia, reactionary despotism, nationalism, religion, ascetic regulation, traditionalism, patriarchality.
* Real location: Russia. Sorry for mistakes in English. Всем салют!

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Andsed, Chan Island, Forsher, Kernen, Majestic-12 [Bot], Miami Shores, Ostroeuropa, The Blaatschapen

Advertisement

Remove ads