Russia sends troops to Syria

[Shofercia]

Russia should give more logistics support to defend free independent Syria.

Yes, with the right support to al-Assad can quickly suppress terrorist rebels and protesters who encourage them.

I wouldn't go after the peaceful protesters. The more protesters, the less the odds that something will go wrong at the elections, which Assad will have to hold. Think about it: supposed the terrorists want to blow up ballot boxes. They would be faced with a dilemma: either hit someone that's sympathetic to their viewpoints, and thus lose their support, or let the elections run smoothly, and thus, lose their support. When terrorists lose, it's a good thing. Unless I'm playing counterstrike

[Nafu]

I am an american and i don't agree with the idea of russia finding ways to support the regime, but as long as they are just protecting there assets then i don't mind the idea of them sending troops to syria.

plus i just know that more then half the world is anxious to see what will happen if the last remaining super power goes to war with russia.

[Shofercia]

I am an american and i don't agree with the idea of russia finding ways to support the regime, but as long as they are just protecting there assets then i don't mind the idea of them sending troops to syria.

plus i just know that more then half the world is anxious to see what will happen if the last remaining super power goes to war with russia.

I doubt that US and Russia will fight a war over this. At most, it'll be a proxy war limited to the Middle East.

[Allrule]

The U.S. officials also said Russia has not sent additional attack helicopters to the Syrian government, but replacement parts for the Russian helicopters the Syrians are already flying.

Wait, now it's just helicopter parts? Wasn't Hillary Clinton talking about entire helicopters? Did Clinton yet again? I'm shocked and awed

*resists urge to post "I ACCIDENTALLY X IS THAT DANGEROUS" meme*

[Nafu]

I am an american and i don't agree with the idea of russia finding ways to support the regime, but as long as they are just protecting there assets then i don't mind the idea of them sending troops to syria.

plus i just know that more then half the world is anxious to see what will happen if the last remaining super power goes to war with russia.

I doubt that US and Russia will fight a war over this. At most, it'll be a proxy war limited to the Middle East.

true but there is always the possibility of something triggering the two sides to declare war

[Pope Joan]

I doubt that US and Russia will fight a war over this. At most, it'll be a proxy war limited to the Middle East.

true but there is always the possibility of something triggering the two sides to declare war

such as irresistible PRESSURE FROM FRANCE!

[Nafu]

true but there is always the possibility of something triggering the two sides to declare war

such as irresistible PRESSURE FROM FRANCE!

lol i don't thinnk france will do anything. Plus there is nothing wrong about sending troops into a country to protect your nations assets. Its the same if the US sent troops to australia to protect their assets in a time of crisis

[Shofercia]

true but there is always the possibility of something triggering the two sides to declare war

such as irresistible PRESSURE FROM FRANCE!

"War is a Good Thing!"

I had to

[Exi1and]

Yes, with the right support to al-Assad can quickly suppress terrorist rebels and protesters who encourage them.

I wouldn't go after the peaceful protesters. The more protesters, the less the odds that something will go wrong at the elections, which Assad will have to hold. Think about it: supposed the terrorists want to blow up ballot boxes. They would be faced with a dilemma: either hit someone that's sympathetic to their viewpoints, and thus lose their support, or let the elections run smoothly, and thus, lose their support. When terrorists lose, it's a good thing. Unless I'm playing counterstrike

Terrorists do not care about killing people who could support them. Look at what they did in the Hula. They are quite willing to kill anyone, and blame the government, to encourage the Western invasion. If they blew up the ballot boxes, the Western media simply say that it was men of al-Assad, who did it.

It would be much better to defeat the terrorists in battle, put the protesters in prison, where they can not harm al-Assad or be killed by terrorists to blame al-Assad. Presidsential elections can be held in 2014 in accordance with the schedule and in accordance with laws of the Syrian constitution, and not some stranger's rules, aimed at overthrowing him.

[Shofercia]

I wouldn't go after the peaceful protesters. The more protesters, the less the odds that something will go wrong at the elections, which Assad will have to hold. Think about it: supposed the terrorists want to blow up ballot boxes. They would be faced with a dilemma: either hit someone that's sympathetic to their viewpoints, and thus lose their support, or let the elections run smoothly, and thus, lose their support. When terrorists lose, it's a good thing. Unless I'm playing counterstrike

Terrorists do not care about killing people who could support them. Look at what they did in the Hula. They are quite willing to kill anyone, and blame the government, to encourage the Western invasion. If they blew up the ballot boxes, the Western media simply say that it was men of al-Assad, who did it.

It would be much better to defeat the terrorists in battle, put the protesters in prison, where they can not harm al-Assad or be killed by terrorists to blame al-Assad. Presidsential elections can be held in 2014 in accordance with the schedule and in accordance with laws of the Syrian constitution, and not some stranger's rules, aimed at overthrowing him.

No, presidential elections MUST be held as soon as Syria clams down. 2014 would be too late.

[Blazedtown]

Russia wants to keep its military ports. Like I have said twice already in other posts on another thread, if the Russians are tossed out of Syria then the Mediterreanean becomes NATOS private lake. That means the Russians extended military power is pushed back to their borders.

Not seeing the problem. Just speeds up the eventual death of Russian naval power, which is a good thing. We don't need Soviet era ships leaking radiation everywhere.

Even though the Russians would like the Syrian President to retain power, they are generally more interested in not losing their naval port. If the rebels win, most certainly they will toss the Russians out. So the Russians sending troops to that naval base is a smart move. If the Syrian President losses control of most of Syria to the rebels, with Russian help he can probably secure the two Alawite provinces on the coast. He can then make then an independent Alawite republic. Everyone wins. The former Syrian President or at least his political party keeps itself in power in a smaller new nation which is under Russian protection. The Russians get to keep their naval port. And the Syrian rebels get rid of the current Syrian President and his political party. Of course,Syria will then be landlocked but you cannot have everything. Generally, the two coastal Alawite provinces have not seen the violence that has occurred in other parts of Syria.

(Image)

That's not an everyone wins scenario. That's a Russia and Assad win and Syria people get a consolation prize of being economically dependent on the new separate Assad regime for access to the Mediterranean, and world trade.

This is a bad move because it means that NATO will not intervene. This is what happens when we wait for the UN to "do" something. The UN is mostly useless. Sometimes, swift decisive unilateral is what is needed. We let that chance go.

[Exi1and]

Terrorists do not care about killing people who could support them. Look at what they did in the Hula. They are quite willing to kill anyone, and blame the government, to encourage the Western invasion. If they blew up the ballot boxes, the Western media simply say that it was men of al-Assad, who did it.

It would be much better to defeat the terrorists in battle, put the protesters in prison, where they can not harm al-Assad or be killed by terrorists to blame al-Assad. Presidsential elections can be held in 2014 in accordance with the schedule and in accordance with laws of the Syrian constitution, and not some stranger's rules, aimed at overthrowing him.

No, presidential elections MUST be held as soon as Syria clams down. 2014 would be too late.

He has seven years mandate. The only person who can decide to cut this short is al-Assad himself.

[Conspiracies Revealed]

Wait, since when was Russia not allowed to defend its bases?

[Earth Empire]

I'd rather have Muslim dictators who fight themselves than to have all middle astern countries united under the Muslim brotherhood. They would be very powerful.

[Blazedtown]

I'd rather have Muslim dictators who fight themselves than to have all middle astern countries united under the Muslim brotherhood. They would be very powerful.

You do know that's as likely as the Vikings winning the next 10 Superbowls in a row, and that's coming from a Minnesotan. The whole Sunni-Shiite thing, ever heard of it? Its kind of a big deal.

[Earth Empire]

I'd rather have Muslim dictators who fight themselves than to have all middle astern countries united under the Muslim brotherhood. They would be very powerful.

You do know that's as likely as the Vikings winning the next 10 Superbowls in a row, and that's coming from a Minnesotan. The whole Sunni-Shiite thing, ever heard of it? Its kind of a big deal.

That's y I said "would". I know that the sunni Shiite thing is big but the Sunnis outnumber the Shiites which if all Sunnis unite... It could be scary for lots of UN members

[Shofercia]

Russia wants to keep its military ports. Like I have said twice already in other posts on another thread, if the Russians are tossed out of Syria then the Mediterreanean becomes NATOS private lake. That means the Russians extended military power is pushed back to their borders.

Not seeing the problem. Just speeds up the eventual death of Russian naval power, which is a good thing. We don't need Soviet era ships leaking radiation everywhere.

Yes, clearly, if a single base is shut down, Russian Naval Power is doomed! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Navy#Structure

Northern Fleet
Main article: Russian Northern Fleet

The Russian Northern Fleet, established as a modern formation in 1933, is headquartered at Severomorsk and spread around various bases in the Murmansk area. This is the main fleet of the Russian Navy and currently comprises:

Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier or "heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser”(1)
Kirov class nuclear-powered cruiser (1) 1 in reserve, undergoing overhaul
Slava class cruiser (1)
Udaloy class destroyer (5)
Sovremennyy class destroyer (2)
Delta IV class submarine (6)
Typhoon class submarine (1) reportedly 2 may be reactivated
Oscar class submarine (3)
Sierra class submarine (2)
Akula class submarine (6)
Victor class submarine (4)
Kilo class submarine (6)
Borei class submarine 2 in sea trials
Yasen class submarine '1 in sea trials'

The Fleet also includes many corvettes, patrol ships, light amphibious ships and support and logistic ships.


Baltic Fleet
Main article: Baltic Fleet

The Baltic Fleet, established on 18 May 1703, is based in Baltiysk and Kronshtadt, with its headquarters in the city of Kaliningrad, Kaliningrad Oblast. The Fleet consists of;[23]

Sovremennyy class destroyer (2)
Burevestnik class frigate (1)
Neustrashimy class frigate (2)
Kilo class submarine (2)
Lada class submarine (1)

The Baltic Fleet also includes many corvettes, patrol ships, minehunters, light amphibious ships and support vessels.


Southern Military District - Southern Joint Strategic Command
The Black Sea Fleet
Main article: Black Sea Fleet

The Black Sea Fleet, established on 2 May 1783 and is based at the Sevastopol, Karantinnaya, and Streletskaya Bays in Sevastopol which is also the location of its headquarters, and at Novorossiysk in Krasnodar Kray. The fleet also has various other leased facilities on the Crimean Peninsula and facilities in Krasnodar Kray. The Fleet consists of;[23]

Slava class cruiser (1)
Kara class cruiser (1)
Kashin class destroyer (1)
Burevestnik class frigate (2)
Kilo class submarine (1)

The Fleet also includes a small number of corvettes, patrol and coastal protection ships, light amphibious ships, and support vessels.

Caspian Flotilla
Main article: Caspian Flotilla

The Caspian Flotilla, established on 4 November 1722, is based in Astrakhan and Makhachkala with its headquarters in Astrakhan. The Fleet consists of;

Tartarstan/Gepard class frigate (1)

The Fleet also includes a small number of corvettes and patrol ships.
Eastern Military District - Eastern Joint Strategic Command


Pacific Fleet
Main article: Pacific Fleet (Russia)

The Pacific Fleet, established on 10 May 1731 and is headquartered in Vladivostok and based around Vladivostok and Petropavlovsk-Kamchatskiy. The Fleet consists of;

Slava class cruiser (1)
Sovremennyy class destroyer (1)
Udaloy class destroyer (4)
Delta III class submarine (3)
Oscar class submarine (2)
Akula class submarine (5)
Kilo class submarine (7)

The Pacific Fleet also includes coastal combatants such as corvettes, patrol ships, mine warfare ships, light amphibious ships, and support vessels.

Clearly, if that base is shut down, Russian Fleet will be placed on it's route to the ultimate extinction, riiiight.

Even though the Russians would like the Syrian President to retain power, they are generally more interested in not losing their naval port. If the rebels win, most certainly they will toss the Russians out. So the Russians sending troops to that naval base is a smart move. If the Syrian President losses control of most of Syria to the rebels, with Russian help he can probably secure the two Alawite provinces on the coast. He can then make then an independent Alawite republic. Everyone wins. The former Syrian President or at least his political party keeps itself in power in a smaller new nation which is under Russian protection. The Russians get to keep their naval port. And the Syrian rebels get rid of the current Syrian President and his political party. Of course,Syria will then be landlocked but you cannot have everything. Generally, the two coastal Alawite provinces have not seen the violence that has occurred in other parts of Syria.

(Image)

That's not an everyone wins scenario. That's a Russia and Assad win and Syria people get a consolation prize of being economically dependent on the new separate Assad regime for access to the Mediterranean, and world trade.

This is a bad move because it means that NATO will not intervene. This is what happens when we wait for the UN to "do" something. The UN is mostly useless. Sometimes, swift decisive unilateral is what is needed. We let that chance go.

Yes, "swift, decisive, unilateral" certainly did wonders for US in Iraq /sarcasm

[Gauthier]

Yes, with the right support to al-Assad can quickly suppress terrorist rebels and protesters who encourage them.

I wouldn't go after the peaceful protesters. The more protesters, the less the odds that something will go wrong at the elections, which Assad will have to hold. Think about it: supposed the terrorists want to blow up ballot boxes. They would be faced with a dilemma: either hit someone that's sympathetic to their viewpoints, and thus lose their support, or let the elections run smoothly, and thus, lose their support. When terrorists lose, it's a good thing. Unless I'm playing counterstrike

The only reason there are rebels in the first place was Assad ordering the protestors shot.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

Russia should give more logistics support to defend free independent Syria.

Yes, with the right support to al-Assad can quickly suppress terrorist rebels and protesters who encourage them.

Terrorists and armed rebels, yes. Unarmed protesters can simply be bought off like in Saudi Arabia, with more rights given at the same time. Hopefully we will see more troops sent to Syria, to offer counter terrorism support and offer advice/training.

[Shofercia]

I wouldn't go after the peaceful protesters. The more protesters, the less the odds that something will go wrong at the elections, which Assad will have to hold. Think about it: supposed the terrorists want to blow up ballot boxes. They would be faced with a dilemma: either hit someone that's sympathetic to their viewpoints, and thus lose their support, or let the elections run smoothly, and thus, lose their support. When terrorists lose, it's a good thing. Unless I'm playing counterstrike

The only reason there are rebels in the first place was Assad ordering the protestors shot.

So elements of Al Qaeda never took advantage of the chaos in Syria to infiltrate the country? Look, whether the rebellion was justified or not, Al Qaeda is infiltrating Syria, and that threat must be stopped.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ju ... liam-hague

Britain has for the first time raised the spectre of al-Qaida operating in Syria, while at the same time accusing Damascus of brutally targeting specific communities and driving Syrians to take up arms.

The foreign secretary, William Hague, said regime forces were bombarding neighbourhoods then unleashing militia groups to murder civilians in their homes. He said more sanctions against the regime were likely if the UN-brokered peace plan continued to fail, and again appeared to leave open an option for some sort of intervention in the rapidly deteriorating situation in Syria.

Hague said security assessments had indicated the presence in Syria of al-Qaida, a group disavowed by the main opposition force, the Free Syria Army, but who regime officials insist are at the vanguard of a now raging insurgency.

"We … have reason to believe that terrorist groups affiliated to al-Qaida have committed attacks designed to exacerbate the violence, with serious implications for international security," said Hague in a speech to the Commons.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... Syria.html

The Sun has obtained the first footage of extremists taking advantage of the civil war to gain a foothold in the war-torn country. It backs up the grim theory that al-Qaeda is looking to expand into Syria, where it could launch attacks on Britain. The hooded gunman — filmed standing in front of a sinister black flag — is among a growing number of recruits to the latest al-Qaeda-linked terror network. And the arsenal of weapons he poses with gives a horrifying indication of their firepower.

When the Guardian and the Sun both agree...

http://www.geo.tv/GeoDetail.aspx?ID=49654

UNITED NATIONS: UN leader Ban Ki-moon said Thursday he believes Al-Qaeda committed a major bomb attack in Damascus that left dozens dead...Ban said President Bashar al-Assad has still not implemented a peace plan agreed with UN-Arab League envoy Kofi Annan. "Very alarmingly and surprisingly, a few days ago, there was a huge serious massive terrorist attack. I believe that there must be Al-Qaeda behind it. This has created again very serious problems," Ban said at a youth event at the UN headquarters. Suicide attackers detonated huge bombs in Damascus on May 10, killing at least 55 people and wounding nearly 400.

Syria has accused Al-Qaeda of orchestrating attacks in the country in recent weeks, adding to the strife caused by the uprising against Assad. "More than 9,000, at least, maybe 10,000 people have been killed during the last 15 months. It has reached an intolerable situation now," Ban said. US and Russian officials have also said they believe Al-Qaeda and other violent militants are now operating in the country. This month, Syria sent the United Nations the names of 26 mainly Tunisian and Libyan nationals it said had been detained. About 20 had confessed they were members of Al-Qaeda, according to a letter sent with the list. Ban also highlighted two bomb attacks against convoys of UN ceasefire monitors in Syria.

Neither the Government nor the Insurgents would deliberately attack the UN Monitors.

[Blazedtown]

Not seeing the problem. Just speeds up the eventual death of Russian naval power, which is a good thing. We don't need Soviet era ships leaking radiation everywhere.

Yes, clearly, if a single base is shut down, Russian Naval Power is doomed! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Navy#Structure


Clearly, if that base is shut down, Russian Fleet will be placed on it's route to the ultimate extinction, riiiight.

The Russian navy is already on the path to irrelevance due to lack of funds. You grossly misunderstood my statement.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Having read the news I am concerned that this could increase the likelihood of not just a civil war, but also an all out war if it all goes wrong.

[Exi1and]

Yes, with the right support to al-Assad can quickly suppress terrorist rebels and protesters who encourage them.

Terrorists and armed rebels, yes. Unarmed protesters can simply be bought off like in Saudi Arabia, with more rights given at the same time. Hopefully we will see more troops sent to Syria, to offer counter terrorism support and offer advice/training.

Not if they have already bought by foreign powers to try to destabilize the country. Then they can only be solved by putting them in prison.

[Gauthier]

The only reason there are rebels in the first place was Assad ordering the protestors shot.

So elements of Al Qaeda never took advantage of the chaos in Syria to infiltrate the country? Look, whether the rebellion was justified or not, Al Qaeda is infiltrating Syria, and that threat must be stopped.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ju ... liam-hague

Britain has for the first time raised the spectre of al-Qaida operating in Syria, while at the same time accusing Damascus of brutally targeting specific communities and driving Syrians to take up arms.

The foreign secretary, William Hague, said regime forces were bombarding neighbourhoods then unleashing militia groups to murder civilians in their homes. He said more sanctions against the regime were likely if the UN-brokered peace plan continued to fail, and again appeared to leave open an option for some sort of intervention in the rapidly deteriorating situation in Syria.

Hague said security assessments had indicated the presence in Syria of al-Qaida, a group disavowed by the main opposition force, the Free Syria Army, but who regime officials insist are at the vanguard of a now raging insurgency.

"We … have reason to believe that terrorist groups affiliated to al-Qaida have committed attacks designed to exacerbate the violence, with serious implications for international security," said Hague in a speech to the Commons.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... Syria.html

The Sun has obtained the first footage of extremists taking advantage of the civil war to gain a foothold in the war-torn country. It backs up the grim theory that al-Qaeda is looking to expand into Syria, where it could launch attacks on Britain. The hooded gunman — filmed standing in front of a sinister black flag — is among a growing number of recruits to the latest al-Qaeda-linked terror network. And the arsenal of weapons he poses with gives a horrifying indication of their firepower.

When the Guardian and the Sun both agree...

http://www.geo.tv/GeoDetail.aspx?ID=49654

UNITED NATIONS: UN leader Ban Ki-moon said Thursday he believes Al-Qaeda committed a major bomb attack in Damascus that left dozens dead...Ban said President Bashar al-Assad has still not implemented a peace plan agreed with UN-Arab League envoy Kofi Annan. "Very alarmingly and surprisingly, a few days ago, there was a huge serious massive terrorist attack. I believe that there must be Al-Qaeda behind it. This has created again very serious problems," Ban said at a youth event at the UN headquarters. Suicide attackers detonated huge bombs in Damascus on May 10, killing at least 55 people and wounding nearly 400.

Syria has accused Al-Qaeda of orchestrating attacks in the country in recent weeks, adding to the strife caused by the uprising against Assad. "More than 9,000, at least, maybe 10,000 people have been killed during the last 15 months. It has reached an intolerable situation now," Ban said. US and Russian officials have also said they believe Al-Qaeda and other violent militants are now operating in the country. This month, Syria sent the United Nations the names of 26 mainly Tunisian and Libyan nationals it said had been detained. About 20 had confessed they were members of Al-Qaeda, according to a letter sent with the list. Ban also highlighted two bomb attacks against convoys of UN ceasefire monitors in Syria.

Neither the Government nor the Insurgents would deliberately attack the UN Monitors.

So it's okay to forgive Assad for having nonviolent demonstrators shot because ALQAEDA?

Al'Qaeda's well on its way towards crumbling with the death of its top members, and the franchises aren't exactly going to be big time.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

The Russian navy is already on the path to irrelevance due to lack of funds. You grossly misunderstood my statement.

News flash, this isn't 1998. Besides the ever increasing overall Russian military budget, in 2011 it was over 70 billion USDs, 650 billion USDs,is being spent from now to 2020 with the sole purpose of buying new weapon systems, which includes the navy. Russian ship yards are already building new ships, with more in the future planned, in addition to ships like the Mistrals being bought from France. It won't match the US, but will be a force to reckon with.