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by PrncssOfCuddles » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:41 pm
Esternial wrote:You know, it's not nice to talk around someone's back.
Even if you think she's not doing a great job, I'm pretty sure DLN is doing her best to be a good mod. They're not Jesus incarnate, so they too have flaws (like Sedge, but lets not get to that part or we'll be here all day), except for NERVUN, who is a computer.
by Steel and Fire » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:41 pm
Kiskaanak wrote:Steel and Fire wrote:
You weren't here for Stephistan, I guess. Or Myrth.
No, I was here for when Steph had already been demoted. I was horrified when I found out she had once been a mod. I think that she was removed for very good reason, which demonstrates the system does work. In this case I just think it hasn't caught up yet.
by Esternial » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:45 pm
PrncssOfCuddles wrote:Esternial wrote:You know, it's not nice to talk around someone's back.
Even if you think she's not doing a great job, I'm pretty sure DLN is doing her best to be a good mod. They're not Jesus incarnate, so they too have flaws (like Sedge, but lets not get to that part or we'll be here all day), except for NERVUN, who is a computer.
You have a crush on her, too, don't you?! I will fight you for her!
by Kiskaanak » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:48 pm
Steel and Fire wrote:Steph was removed for very good reason, and if you were around then you'd know why -- and why comparing her to DLN is slightly unfair. Just for the most obvious thing, DLN will always (from what I've seen, anyway) get another mod to take a second look if someone challenges her, whereas Stephistan (and later Myrth) wouldn't accept being challenged at all and just handle complaints about themselves by themselves (that's explicitly why Myrth was removed and required to publicly apologise, iirc). Indeed, I've seen a few cases where the other mods did decide DLN was out of line and reverse her rulings -- and she didn't then throw a public temper tantrum, reveal personal information about the mods and delete herself in a fit of pique. A better comparison would probably be Neutered Sputniks. If anyone else even remembers him nowadays <_<
by NERVUN » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:51 pm
Kiskaanak wrote:NERVUN wrote:You're welcome to your own opinion of course, but I haven't seen any of that sort of behavior. Nathi doesn't suffer rule breakers gladly, but that's just her style.
Well we do certainly disagree on this. Most of the complaints I hear about Moderation decisions (because who doesn't like to bitch about them, really) are based on her rulings and her often confusing or outright dishonest justifications for those decisions. The weirdest shit I've seen personally in terms of rulings have been based on her decisions. I do think that not enough people have availed themselves of a review of her decisions because well...the review process is not particularly accessible or understood. If they were to lodge these complaints, you might have your attention drawn to the kinds of behaviours I've mentioned.
So I guess my suggestion is that people who have had to deal with a bizarre decision by DLN actually do follow up with a review request, and tender evidence of any falsehoods (like claiming she sent a 'heads up TG' if the TG was actually merely a notice of a lock).
Esternial wrote:You know, it's not nice to talk around someone's back.
Even if you think she's not doing a great job, I'm pretty sure DLN is doing her best to be a good mod. They're not Jesus incarnate, so they too have flaws (like Sedge, but lets not get to that part or we'll be here all day), except for NERVUN, who is a computer.
by United Dependencies » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:58 pm
Alien Space Bats wrote:2012: The Year We Lost Contact (with Reality).
Cannot think of a name wrote:Obamacult wrote:Maybe there is an economically sound and rational reason why there are no longer high paying jobs for qualified accountants, assembly line workers, glass blowers, blacksmiths, tanners, etc.
Maybe dragons took their jobs. Maybe unicorns only hid their jobs because unicorns are dicks. Maybe 'jobs' is only an illusion created by a drug addled infant pachyderm. Fuck dude, if we're in 'maybe' land, don't hold back.
by Steel and Fire » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:59 pm
Kiskaanak wrote:Sorry, but I did not compare her to Steph. You brought up Steph, and I noted that I am aware Steph was once a moderator and had been removed, and yes I am aware of why. That is not a comparison. It's a different topic entirely. Steph and I did not get along, at all and I was not sad to see her and her husband finally depart.
That's really great that sometimes DLN gets her rulings reversed. If she learned from it and became a decent moderator, that would be even better. Short of that, having people follow through with specific complaints about her rulings might help problems come to light, because it's not really practical to have other mods watching one another like hawks, is it?
Edit: although I do like your comparison
by Galloism » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:01 pm
NERVUN wrote:Hey! I am NOT a comp... comp... Cpmp SAkljsdh...
"STOP: 0x00000007"
"INVALID_SOFTWARE_INTERRUPT"
by Kiskaanak » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:02 pm
NERVUN wrote:In all seriousness, I would like to see such evidence. Because, quite honestly, the Admins and Max takes every charge of Mod bias/rule breaking/unfairness seriously as long as there is evidence. That's where things usually fall down, for all the howling no one actually proffers the said evidence.
by Kiskaanak » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:04 pm
Steel and Fire wrote:
But you did suggest that DLN should be removed the same way Steph was, and there seems to be an obvious reason why that hasn't happened -- whatever else you may think of her, DLN isn't under the impression that she's above the rules. It's mods who act that way who get removed, whereas mods who are simply snarky and condescending in their public face typically aren't. (When they were active, Frisbeeteria and Hack were both very much like that -- and Frisbeeteria's rulings especially were contested quite often; not because they were necessarily less fair than anyone else's, more because of the way he presented himself.)
Steel and Fire wrote:I would think that's the only practical way to do anything, tbh. Someone has to watch the watchers. And if you think they aren't watching closely enough, yes, by all means do make whatever complaints you think necessary, using any avenues open to you. Every mod has made mistakes.
Thank you, I worked very hard on it
by NERVUN » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:04 pm
by Dumb Ideologies » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:07 pm
Kiskaanak wrote:Steel and Fire wrote:
But you did suggest that DLN should be removed the same way Steph was, and there seems to be an obvious reason why that hasn't happened -- whatever else you may think of her, DLN isn't under the impression that she's above the rules. It's mods who act that way who get removed, whereas mods who are simply snarky and condescending in their public face typically aren't. (When they were active, Frisbeeteria and Hack were both very much like that -- and Frisbeeteria's rulings especially were contested quite often; not because they were necessarily less fair than anyone else's, more because of the way he presented himself.)
I suggested mentoring from more capable mods, or failing that, removal. Not 'in the same way Steph was removed'. No, she doesn't think she's above the rules...it appears she doesn't actually understand them very well. Like satire.
by Ardchoille » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:55 pm
by SD_Film Artists » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:00 pm
by Mikoyan-Guryevich » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:08 pm
by Central Slavia » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:08 pm
Glorious Homeland wrote:
You would be wrong. There's something wrong with the Americans, the Japanese are actually insane, the Chinese don't seem capable of free-thought and just defer judgement to the most powerful strong man, the Russians are quite like that, only more aggressive and mad, and Belarus? Hah.
Omnicracy wrote:The Soviet Union did not support pro-Soviet governments, it compleatly controled them. The U.S. did not controle the corrupt regiems it set up against the Soviet Union, it just sugested things and changed leaders if they weer not takeing enough sugestions
Great Nepal wrote:Please stick to OFFICIAL numbers. Why to go to scholars,[cut]
by Nadkor » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:11 pm
NERVUN wrote:Kiskaanak wrote:Yup.
Kat has always been 'tough but fair'. Like I said, Melkor has let things get personal before, but that has been noticed. Most of the other mods have been fine. I haven't agreed with everything they do, but that's not the point. Generally the other mods don't make totally ridiculous rulings and then back them up with hyperbole, deflection, and thread locks to avoid further conversation. That is basically all DLN does, however.
Wasn't there a rule that if you want to be a mod, you probably won't be? DLN went around for years acting like a mod while pulling a Eutrusca like 'smiley' (in the form of a signature stating she wasn't a mod) to get away with it. She desperately wanted to be a mod and eventually she got her wish.
She has never demonstrated an ability to be a fair, balanced, or consistent moderator however. Her rulings have always been childish and poorly backed up. Frankly, this should be reviewed, and she should either be mentored by a more capable moderator (or the team), or she should be removed.
So no. The system isn't broken. Just one moderator is.
You're welcome to your own opinion of course, but I haven't seen any of that sort of behavior. Nathi doesn't suffer rule breakers gladly, but that's just her style.
by Fischistan » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:15 pm
Xavier D'Montagne
Fischistani Ambassador to the WA
Unibot II wrote:It's Carta. He CANNOT Fail. Only successes in reverse.
The Matthew Islands wrote:Knowledge is knowing the Tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
Anthony Delasanta wrote:its was not genocide it was ethnic cleansing...
Socorra wrote:A religion-free abortion thread is like a meat-free hamburger.
by Tergnitz » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:29 pm
by Mikoyan-Guryevich » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:31 pm
by Tiami » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:41 pm
by Inky Noodles » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:42 pm
by Malshan » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:45 pm
Rupudska wrote:Hetland 2 wrote:
You catch on quick. That's why I like you. :)
I'm kidding of course you aren't a thing. You're a person.
Dude, don't insult the werefurry.
Rupudska wrote:RP Sample: Let me in, or we take another third of Mexico.
Rupudska wrote:You're NS's Wolfman, therefore your argument is negated due to bias.
"Sarcasm works so much better when you can look down your fire-breathing nose at someone." -Callistan Sairias
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