NATION

PASSWORD

Best place to live?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
The Atlantian islands
Diplomat
 
Posts: 610
Founded: Jun 16, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Atlantian islands » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:25 am

Neesika wrote:
Hydesland wrote:But that's why I was saying earlier that you can't really say what the best place to live is on a national level, as it depends too much on socio-economic status first.

Something that TAI would deny is a factor that should be taken into consideration in the US, as all USians are essentially equal.

Could you just not call us USians, please? It's just disrespectful, and for the sake of pleasant discussion, please stop.

In another language, you may use other words for us, but in our language, would you please use the word we use for ourselves. It's only polite.

User avatar
Wilgrove
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38608
Founded: May 08, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wilgrove » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:25 am

You can't go wrong with Sealand.

http://www.sealandgov.org/

User avatar
Cabra West
Senator
 
Posts: 4984
Founded: Jan 15, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Cabra West » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:27 am

Wilgrove wrote:You can't go wrong with Sealand.

http://www.sealandgov.org/


It's just a bit on the small side, isn't it? ;)
"I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, and as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

Lord Vetinari

User avatar
Neesika
Minister
 
Posts: 2569
Founded: Aug 26, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Neesika » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:28 am

The Atlantian islands wrote:
Neesika wrote:
Hydesland wrote:But that's why I was saying earlier that you can't really say what the best place to live is on a national level, as it depends too much on socio-economic status first.

Something that TAI would deny is a factor that should be taken into consideration in the US, as all USians are essentially equal.

Could you just not call us USians, please? It's just disrespectful, and for the sake of pleasant discussion, please stop.

In another language, you may use other words for us, but in our language, would you please use the word we use for ourselves. It's only polite.

TAI, I'm really tired of you making an issue of this. I use the terms "citizens of the US", "USians", "people living in the US" interchangeably. It has been ruled as peachy keen many times before, as long as it isn't intentionally used to piss people off. I understand that you insist on taking offense at it, but I'm in no way intending that outcome, and my use of the term has a long history, and is consistent. If you cannot have a pleasant discussion with anyone who uses the term, I suggest the problem is yours, as I have in no way intended or performed in a disrespectful manner.
"Look, Ann Coulter explained it one time. Jesus came to perfect the Jews so they could become Christians and be saved. If they stay Jews, they are rejecting God and the opportunity to eat bacon dipped in mayo and served on the tits of a woman who doesn't complain at restaruants." - RepentNowOrPayLater

User avatar
Gift-of-god
Minister
 
Posts: 3138
Founded: Jul 05, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Gift-of-god » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:32 am

Hydesland wrote:
Gift-of-god wrote:This only supports my claim that your family is able to access more opportunities than most, and thus can not be indicative of the situation for most USians.


But that's why I was saying earlier that you can't really say what the best place to live is on a national level, as it depends too much on socio-economic status first.


Exactly.

Well, in societies where there is less of a gap between rich and poor, the situation of the average citizen is more realistic a depiction of reality than in those countries with a larger gap. My relatives in the developing world who make more money than Scrooge McDuck live better than I do as a middle class Canadian, but no one is pretending that they are typical of their nation.

And things like opportunity are associated with socio-economic class. There are more opportunities for white, well off males than for other people, especially in countries with a large rich/poor gap.
I am the very model of the modern kaiju Gamera
I've a shell that's indestructible and endless turtle stamina.
I defend the little kids and I level downtown Tokyo
in a giant free-for-all mega-kaiju rodeo.

User avatar
The Atlantian islands
Diplomat
 
Posts: 610
Founded: Jun 16, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Atlantian islands » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:33 am

Neesika wrote:
The Atlantian islands wrote:
Neesika wrote:
Hydesland wrote:But that's why I was saying earlier that you can't really say what the best place to live is on a national level, as it depends too much on socio-economic status first.

Something that TAI would deny is a factor that should be taken into consideration in the US, as all USians are essentially equal.

Could you just not call us USians, please? It's just disrespectful, and for the sake of pleasant discussion, please stop.

In another language, you may use other words for us, but in our language, would you please use the word we use for ourselves. It's only polite.

TAI, I'm really tired of you making an issue of this. I use the terms "citizens of the US", "USians", "people living in the US" interchangeably. It has been ruled as peachy keen many times before, as long as it isn't intentionally used to piss people off. I understand that you insist on taking offense at it, but I'm in no way intending that outcome, and my use of the term has a long history, and is consistent. If you cannot have a pleasant discussion with anyone who uses the term, I suggest the problem is yours, as I have in no way intended or performed in a disrespectful manner.

It hardly matters how you intend to use the term, because the term simply exists to disrespect Americans but not calling them by their actual name.

If I called a black person a nigglet over and over again, even if we were having a proper and polite discussion, and he asked me to stop because it was disrespectful to him, I'd stop because I'd call him by what he'd like me to call him. Why can't you just apply that logic to USian and realize that it is not the word we use to call ourselves. Look at the CIA globalfact and find that we are called Americans.

It really, really is fundamentally disrespectful, no matter the intent.

User avatar
Aelosia
Senator
 
Posts: 4524
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Aelosia » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:35 am

The Atlantian islands wrote:It hardly matters how you intend to use the term, because the term simply exists to disrespect Americans but not calling them by their actual name.

If I called a black person a nigglet over and over again, even if we were having a proper and polite discussion, and he asked me to stop because it was disrespectful to him, I'd stop because I'd call him by what he'd like me to call him. Why can't you just apply that logic to USian and realize that it is not the word we use to call ourselves. Look at the CIA globalfact and find that we are called Americans.

It really, really is fundamentally disrespectful, no matter the intent.


Sorry, but intention matters, a lot. Weren't you mad at muslims for the Mohammed cartoons' reaction specially because the muslims were unable to see the intention of satire?

Oh, double standards. Right.

If you call me hispanic, and I find it offensive, and I tell you to stop, would you stop?
Last edited by Aelosia on Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
My ratings in the top 100:
Aelosia is ranked 12th in the world for Lowest Unemployment Rates
Aelosia is ranked 12th in the world for Lowest Unemployment Rates
Aelosia is ranked 12th in the world for Largest Defense Forces
Aelosia is ranked 13th in the world for Most Scientifically Advanced
Aelosia is ranked 20th in the world for Most Cultured
Aelosia is ranked 24th in the world for Most Subsidized Industry
Aelosia is ranked 25th in the world for Fastest-Growing Economies
Aelosia is ranked 38th in the world for Largest Public Transport Department
Aelosia is ranked 42th in the world for Largest Publishing Industry
Aelosia is ranked 51th in the world for Largest Information Technology Sector
Aelosia is ranked 61th in the world for Largest Arms Manufacturing Sector

Factbook so far.

User avatar
The Atlantian islands
Diplomat
 
Posts: 610
Founded: Jun 16, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Atlantian islands » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:40 am

Aelosia wrote:Sorry, but intention matters, a lot. Weren't you mad at muslims for the Mohammed cartoons' reaction specially because the muslims were unable to see the intention of satire?

Uhm...what?


If you call me hispanic, and I find it offensive, and I tell you to stop, would you stop?

Yes, of course! This is the point I'm making. You should call a people what they wish to call themselves.

Though my point was more that in Spanish, you can call us Estadounidense or Americano in Spanish, whatever you'd like (both are used), because it's your language and your names for us.

But in English, is it too much to ask for that we be called how we are actually called?

User avatar
Psychotic Mongooses
Diplomat
 
Posts: 804
Founded: Mar 07, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Psychotic Mongooses » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:44 am

The Atlantian islands wrote:
But in English, is it too much to ask for that we be called how we are actually called?

Citizens of the United States of America?

User avatar
Aelosia
Senator
 
Posts: 4524
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Aelosia » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:45 am

The Atlantian islands wrote:
Aelosia wrote:Sorry, but intention matters, a lot. Weren't you mad at muslims for the Mohammed cartoons' reaction specially because the muslims were unable to see the intention of satire?

Uhm...what?


If you call me hispanic, and I find it offensive, and I tell you to stop, would you stop?

Yes, of course! This is the point I'm making. You should call a people what they wish to call themselves.

Though my point was more that in Spanish, you can call us Estadounidense or Americano in Spanish, whatever you'd like (both are used), because it's your language and your names for us.

But in English, is it too much to ask for that we be called how we are actually called?


I don't know, I have never used USians. I used to say "Unitedstaters", but I stopped because a mod asked me to stop, (although I wasn't trying to provoke, as you said, it was the closer thing I had to my native estadounidenses).

Right now I use citizens of the US, that happens to leave everyone happy.
My ratings in the top 100:
Aelosia is ranked 12th in the world for Lowest Unemployment Rates
Aelosia is ranked 12th in the world for Lowest Unemployment Rates
Aelosia is ranked 12th in the world for Largest Defense Forces
Aelosia is ranked 13th in the world for Most Scientifically Advanced
Aelosia is ranked 20th in the world for Most Cultured
Aelosia is ranked 24th in the world for Most Subsidized Industry
Aelosia is ranked 25th in the world for Fastest-Growing Economies
Aelosia is ranked 38th in the world for Largest Public Transport Department
Aelosia is ranked 42th in the world for Largest Publishing Industry
Aelosia is ranked 51th in the world for Largest Information Technology Sector
Aelosia is ranked 61th in the world for Largest Arms Manufacturing Sector

Factbook so far.

User avatar
Wilgrove
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38608
Founded: May 08, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wilgrove » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:50 am

Cabra West wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:You can't go wrong with Sealand.

http://www.sealandgov.org/


It's just a bit on the small side, isn't it? ;)


Hey, it'll bring you and your hubby closer together. :)

User avatar
Cabra West
Senator
 
Posts: 4984
Founded: Jan 15, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Cabra West » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:55 am

Wilgrove wrote:
Cabra West wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:You can't go wrong with Sealand.

http://www.sealandgov.org/


It's just a bit on the small side, isn't it? ;)


Hey, it'll bring you and your hubby closer together. :)


*lol Given the size of the two of us. we might sink it!
"I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, and as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

Lord Vetinari

User avatar
Mikertaz Kein
Diplomat
 
Posts: 568
Founded: Jun 07, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Mikertaz Kein » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:58 am

Cabra West wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:You can't go wrong with Sealand.

http://www.sealandgov.org/


It's just a bit on the small side, isn't it? ;)


Quite old, but what did you eventually name you house?

User avatar
Wilgrove
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38608
Founded: May 08, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wilgrove » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:58 am

Cabra West wrote:*lol Given the size of the two of us. we might sink it!


Hmm....it'll give you a chance to see how fast you can swim when a great white shark is chasing after you? :blink:

User avatar
Cabra West
Senator
 
Posts: 4984
Founded: Jan 15, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Cabra West » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:00 am

Mikertaz Kein wrote:
Cabra West wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:You can't go wrong with Sealand.

http://www.sealandgov.org/


It's just a bit on the small side, isn't it? ;)


Quite old, but what did you eventually name you house?


We're still holding our breaths until the bid is accepted or rejected... we may never get to name it. We'll see...
"I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, and as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

Lord Vetinari

User avatar
Cabra West
Senator
 
Posts: 4984
Founded: Jan 15, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Cabra West » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:01 am

Wilgrove wrote:
Cabra West wrote:*lol Given the size of the two of us. we might sink it!


Hmm....it'll give you a chance to see how fast you can swim when a great white shark is chasing after you? :blink:


Me, I might stand a chance. But my dear husband can't swim. :(
"I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, and as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

Lord Vetinari

User avatar
North Suran
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9974
Founded: Jul 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby North Suran » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:08 am

Wilgrove wrote:
Cabra West wrote:*lol Given the size of the two of us. we might sink it!


Hmm....it'll give you a chance to see how fast you can swim when a great white shark is chasing after you? :blink:

Don't think you'll find many Great White sharks in the North Sea.
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.


User avatar
North Suran
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9974
Founded: Jul 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby North Suran » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:12 am

The Atlantian islands wrote:
Neesika wrote:TAI, I'm really tired of you making an issue of this. I use the terms "citizens of the US", "USians", "people living in the US" interchangeably. It has been ruled as peachy keen many times before, as long as it isn't intentionally used to piss people off. I understand that you insist on taking offense at it, but I'm in no way intending that outcome, and my use of the term has a long history, and is consistent. If you cannot have a pleasant discussion with anyone who uses the term, I suggest the problem is yours, as I have in no way intended or performed in a disrespectful manner.

It hardly matters how you intend to use the term, because the term simply exists to disrespect Americans but not calling them by their actual name.

...

It really, really is fundamentally disrespectful, no matter the intent.

How?

The whole point of the term "USian" is to be geographically and technically correct; there are two whole continents which are indentified as America, and unless the USA moves to annex both of them, it is technically wrong to call them "Americans".

Canadians live in North America. Mexicans live in Central America. Venezuelans live in South America.

Indeed, the only people who are truly entitled to the name "Americans" are those descended from the indigenous population.
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.


User avatar
Wilgrove
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38608
Founded: May 08, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wilgrove » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:16 am

North Suran wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:
Cabra West wrote:*lol Given the size of the two of us. we might sink it!


Hmm....it'll give you a chance to see how fast you can swim when a great white shark is chasing after you? :blink:

Don't think you'll find many Great White sharks in the North Sea.


A blue whale?

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10904
Founded: May 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby The Romulan Republic » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:22 am

North Suran wrote:The whole point of the term "USian" is to be geographically and technically correct; there are two whole continents which are indentified as America, and unless the USA moves to annex both of them, it is technically wrong to call them "Americans".

Canadians live in North America. Mexicans live in Central America. Venezuelans live in South America.


So basically linguistic nitpicking?

Frankly though, if you want to use it, I don't really care. I don't think it matters much either way, and I'm tired of this discussion. In fairness to you, it doesn't look like you started it.

Indeed, the only people who are truly entitled to the name "Americans" are those descended from the indigenous population.


This I must object to. "Indigenous" in what sense? Certainly, some populations have been here longer than others, but ultimately everyone in North America is descended from an immigrant. If you are a resident of the Americas, and think of yourself as American, then you're pretty much an American, as far as I'm concern.

Insisting on treating anyone in North America not of "First Nations" decent as an invader or outsider is not merely offensive, but socially damaging. It forces us to live endlessly in the past, rehashing old conflicts and injustices, rather than advancing to a society that doesn't base your position in society on your racial background.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - President Abraham Lincoln.

User avatar
Imperialist Reich
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 407
Founded: Mar 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperialist Reich » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:22 am

As I am in the UK at the moment - and I dare say that this nation is slowly going to the dogs, I am afraid to say I want to move. I like Norway, cold and such up there. So I might try there or Ireland when I leave school. If the UK improves, I will happily stay here.
"Empires of the world have always risen and fallen through war and conquest, it seems that the Empire has risen without war but fall with conquest" - Emperor Sareth Aringarosa

User avatar
Sibirsky
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44938
Founded: Mar 22, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Sibirsky » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:24 am

Hydesland wrote:I don't really think that index denotes a good indication of best place to live, it's too generalised. The best place to live can depend heavily on your socio-economic status as well, so being poor in the USA is much worse than being poor in Sweden, but being rich in the US is far better than being rich in Sweden (speaking very generally here).


Generally, but correctly
Free market capitalism, path to prosperity
Свободный рынок капитализма, путь к процветанию
IBC 7 Finalists
8 Gold, 9 Silver, 2 Bronze medals IV Summer Olympics
2 Silver, 4 Bronze medals V Winter Olympics
Golfinator Classic Champion
Scott Cup I Champions
World Bowl 11 4th Place

User avatar
Hydesland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15021
Founded: Nov 28, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hydesland » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:24 am

Cabra West wrote:The conclusion the author of this story came to that the best society is the society where you as a soul about to be born don't need to worry about what your life will be like.


That sounds like John Rawls.

User avatar
Sibirsky
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44938
Founded: Mar 22, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Sibirsky » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:24 am

The Atlantian islands wrote:USA . . . for the sheer amount of opportunity to make whatever life for yourself you wish.


Correct
Free market capitalism, path to prosperity
Свободный рынок капитализма, путь к процветанию
IBC 7 Finalists
8 Gold, 9 Silver, 2 Bronze medals IV Summer Olympics
2 Silver, 4 Bronze medals V Winter Olympics
Golfinator Classic Champion
Scott Cup I Champions
World Bowl 11 4th Place

User avatar
Sibirsky
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44938
Founded: Mar 22, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Sibirsky » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:26 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
The Atlantian islands wrote:USA . . . for the sheer amount of opportunity to make whatever life for yourself you wish.


Similar (or better) opportunities exist in almost every rich country. What makes the USA special in this regard, aside from it claiming it is ?


More economic freedom. Easier to get things done. A bigger market to sell to, although with globalization and the internet that is being leveled out.
Free market capitalism, path to prosperity
Свободный рынок капитализма, путь к процветанию
IBC 7 Finalists
8 Gold, 9 Silver, 2 Bronze medals IV Summer Olympics
2 Silver, 4 Bronze medals V Winter Olympics
Golfinator Classic Champion
Scott Cup I Champions
World Bowl 11 4th Place

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aclion, Andsed, Chan Island, Daarwyrth, Diopolis, Dooom35796821595, Erythrean Thebes, Ethel mermania, Galloism, Google [Bot], Grand Britannia, Hirota, HUElavia, Immoren, Loben The 2nd, Lower Nubia, Napkizemlja, Ngelmish, Proctopeo, Saranidia, Satuga, The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp, The Huskar Social Union, The Kingdom of Man, The New California Republic, Xuloqoia, Ypsylon

Advertisement

Remove ads