A mean old man wrote:What we are ignoring is how my current Delegate was PNG up until Euro was awkwardly “forced” to remove that status (if we want to throw that word around so liberally, I’ll return to sender) [...] I’m sure they’ll find an overengineered and spectacularly petty reason to return Dremaur to their naughty list too, in time.
Europeia has removed these statuses before per changes in the times and the status of the designee - for example, they rescinded Ikania's persona non grata status in 2022 upon The League's request (which was also related to long-passed off-site property issues), and later in the year they rescinded Tim's persona non grata status, originally provided for his role in the 2016 coup of Osiris, then-allied to Europeia, was rescinded in late 2022 as Europeia became closer to the Wardens, and the 2016 Osiris controversy was long moot.
So, I don't consider that an embarrassment on Europeia's part so much as flexibility and willingness to move on (as opposed to the permanent bitterness present in other regimes, such as the Rejected Realms, which maintains irrational non-extradition requests against figures such as North East Somerset to this day). Not sure what the point there is.
EDIT: I just assumed it was an old individual PNG from the forums stuff. Apparently that was erroneous, and it was a Kantrias-wide proscription specifically - not even individually focused. That makes this complaint even sillier.
Aivintis wrote:This is a fair point but also like…it just didn’t work for TEP. It was very gracious of them to offer these services and TEP, from what I can glean, was and still is very grateful. I’m certainly grateful, and I personally didn’t notice much of a difference between v1nage and anarcha except for the dms over pings, which I do find slightly improved. But it’s TEP’s right to use a different tool if we’d prefer to. Like, that isn’t something spitting in Europeia’s face. I know you didn’t say that, but it seems to be how at least some have taken it, especially within Europeia. It’s how things go — someone makes a slightly better toy and then we start playing with it.
Sure, this all makes sense. But there is a significant difference between using technology you find a better fit, and actively advertising it externally. People don't have to like this, but Europeia feels like a space they value for their soft power was encroached upon! Most others probably would too!
Aivintis wrote:But what actually happened is that AMOM acted unilaterally, stepped back temporarily due to the immense stress he was under OOC that in part contributed to unilateral action, he remained within the administration because he still had something to offer, and then TEP’s alliance with Lazarus yielded new tech that just worked better for us.
It is not mutually exclusive that AMOM stepped down due to the scandal and that it was his own choice. Whether or not he was "forced" being a subject of debate here is largely pedantry, in my mind. I understand his desire for the record on his own service to be clear, but we should be honest with ourselves that he did step down in part due to the Ernest Drake scandal - at least that is how he portrayed his motivations and decision to me when we discussed the matter ourselves. I never got the impression that Europeia attempted to force him to, but the overall incident was certainly a factor, if not the largest one - and the resignation helped affirm that it was his error, rather than the East's institutionally.
I am not saying there were zero IRL or busyness related factors for AMOM (because how could I know that for certain) but the scandal was clearly a part of it. Timing alone would demonstrate that to the reasonable observer, but as I said, he himself said it was. Admitting that is compatible with him doing it of his own volition, or otherwise not being "forced."
Aivintis wrote:Certainly not when the accuser happens to be that bot’s competition and happens to have, at the moment, something of a grudge against the major characters in this story due to past events. I think that’s silly. Unless anyone sees any evidence of anything being claimed here, I think it’s fair to call it into question, regardless of whether one is a TEP official, a washed out nameless raider, or any other nosy third party.
I think it is foolish to characterize Europeia's issues with Domais (if that is who you mean) as a simple "grudge." He was by far the most indignant, foolish, and antagonistic voice throughout the Ernest Drake scandal, prior to Lazarus's repudiation of their original statement, which itself muzzled and disavowed his behavior. If you refer to AMOM, I still think "grudge" is an understatement given the nature of his slip-up, but less so than if you meant Domais.
