New Sparkia wrote:Why the hell do you guys want forced labour
To protect our glorious revolution from the next one.
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by Askrieg » Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:37 pm
Cessarea wrote:
"As for your arguments... offer voluntary training courses. None of what you described is exclusive to conscription. Does a nation need to force into service its citizens for the sake of 'preparing' them? If you find it absolutely necessary, instil obligatory training courses for citizens that have concluded General Education - or... I suppose one could call it High School? - so as to prepare them in the use of weaponry and on the ways of war. Obligatory service, however, is needless for the benefits you have described."
Elyreia wrote: "A luxury not every nation provides, as you correctly stated. All said, I feel the response would be to mandate allowing such provisos and alternatives, rather than outright prohibition on the entire service itself."
They set their hand on the desk before them, "Thus, the Principality will remain in Opposition to this proposed legislation, but would gladly welcome the submission to this House an amendment addressing the concerns noted - lack of alternatives to service outside conscientious or religious objectors, and guarantees of non-discrimination tied to any remedies therein."
by Cessarea » Fri Oct 06, 2023 1:22 pm
Askrieg wrote:Cessarea wrote:
"As for your arguments... offer voluntary training courses. None of what you described is exclusive to conscription. Does a nation need to force into service its citizens for the sake of 'preparing' them? If you find it absolutely necessary, instil obligatory training courses for citizens that have concluded General Education - or... I suppose one could call it High School? - so as to prepare them in the use of weaponry and on the ways of war. Obligatory service, however, is needless for the benefits you have described."
Dr. Daendels rises to speak,
"Minister, it is exclusive to conscription. Offering voluntary training courses, without obligatory clauses will only attract citizens that considers military service as a career rather than a duty for national defense. We argue that such cases breeds servicemen that are prideful, boastful, borderline obsessed with power that considers themselves better than the average citizen. Conscription makes sure none of that happens, how can you be prideful if everyone is a service member?
Furthermore, obligatory training courses after General Education is one half of conscription. Like all education, it needs practical uses to be effective. Obligatory service to complete their "obligatory training courses" is needed. And thus, just described conscription.
by Second Sovereignty » Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:35 pm
Let us be straightforward, as your honorable nation deserves; Standing law in the World Assembly unfortunately leaves a significant and dire gap in its proscription on forced labor and slavery; conscription, ‘the draft’, 'national service', or, to strip out convenient euphemisms, military slavery.
It is nothing more than the first step of empires, forcing innocent people into brutal and horrific wars against vulnerable nations they have no quarrel with, and the last resort of tyrants, who will proudly sacrifice every life under their ‘protection’ as living shield so as to ensure the continuation of their reign. It is a tool of the most miserable and brutal states in existence, serving as a method of indoctrination and reinforcement for the daily brutalities within them.
The Sovereignty asks you, if you would, to join us in putting an end to this phase of history, wherein lives are expended as gamepieces by uncaring leaders; wherein marauding empires, self-interested tyrants, and apartheid states, operate with impunity against their peoples.
by Relikai » Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:39 pm
by Second Sovereignty » Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:43 pm
Relikai wrote:"Without conscription, or national service in some definitions, smaller countries will lack the ability to summon numbers to protect their own sovereignty against the influence of larger nations. It is unfortunate that this bill could even be considered in a thinly-veiled attempt to strip these smaller countries of their own independent decision-making when it comes to their own national security, and a possible attempt for larger nations to assert their influence over the possible victims of this Bill.
"We are glad and relieved that smaller nations can retain the ability to decide for themselves the need for conscription and mandatory service for the defence of their own country against larger predators seeking to undermine them."
by Relikai » Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:48 pm
Second Sovereignty wrote:Relikai wrote:"Without conscription, or national service in some definitions, smaller countries will lack the ability to summon numbers to protect their own sovereignty against the influence of larger nations. It is unfortunate that this bill could even be considered in a thinly-veiled attempt to strip these smaller countries of their own independent decision-making when it comes to their own national security, and a possible attempt for larger nations to assert their influence over the possible victims of this Bill.
"We are glad and relieved that smaller nations can retain the ability to decide for themselves the need for conscription and mandatory service for the defence of their own country against larger predators seeking to undermine them."
"Do you, simply not read transcripts as a matter of course? Or were you merely sleeping for the entirety of the debate? And the presentation I just gave, for that matter. Not a word you've said is true or coherent in real terms. Please educate yourself on basic realities rather than wartime fiction."
by Picairn » Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:49 pm
by Second Sovereignty » Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:52 pm
Relikai wrote:"There are nations who have been invaded and betrayed by the Colonial White Man to the Japanese during the Second War, the Colonial White Man who abandoned their posts and left the locals to die and suffer 4 years of occupation. Therefore the words of the privileged who never had to undergo the pain of foreign occupation would bear little to this policy. Let those who enact this for their own sakes do so, and let the privilege continue to have others die for their sakes."
by Relikai » Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:56 pm
Second Sovereignty wrote:Relikai wrote:"There are nations who have been invaded and betrayed by the Colonial White Man to the Japanese during the Second War, the Colonial White Man who abandoned their posts and left the locals to die and suffer 4 years of occupation. Therefore the words of the privileged who never had to undergo the pain of foreign occupation would bear little to this policy. Let those who enact this for their own sakes do so, and let the privilege continue to have others die for their sakes."
"Or, in other words, you're a presumptive... delegate, utterly detached from reality and convinced you're saving the world by marching the unwilling to their deaths at gunpoint. Wonderful; I do so love it when tyrants decide to be humanitarians."
by Second Sovereignty » Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:00 pm
Relikai wrote:"No, we choose to have conscripts trained better than the 'volunteers' of some nations or the thinly veiled 'volunteerism' between military service or jail time. Also we prefer not to have history repeat themselves where a smaller oppressed nation is unable to have soldiers as a deterrence, and consider the words of one who never had to serve or defend their country invalid when it comes to such policymaking."
by Makko Oko » Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:48 pm
Second Sovereignty wrote:Relikai wrote:"There are nations who have been invaded and betrayed by the Colonial White Man to the Japanese during the Second War, the Colonial White Man who abandoned their posts and left the locals to die and suffer 4 years of occupation. Therefore the words of the privileged who never had to undergo the pain of foreign occupation would bear little to this policy. Let those who enact this for their own sakes do so, and let the privilege continue to have others die for their sakes."
"Or, in other words, you're a presumptive... delegate, utterly detached from reality and convinced you're saving the world by marching the unwilling to their deaths at gunpoint. Wonderful; I do so love it when tyrants decide to be humanitarians."
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by Wallenburg » Fri Oct 06, 2023 10:31 pm
Second Sovereignty wrote:I just thought I'd remind you all of the fine company which you hold. And, of course, there is ever, another time. After all, there's only good to come, eventually, of gleefully putting firearms in the hands of people who have just been given the highest incentive to oppose your regimes. Good luck to you all."
Second Sovereignty wrote:"Or, in other words, you're a presumptive... delegate, utterly detached from reality and convinced you're saving the world by marching the unwilling to their deaths at gunpoint. Wonderful; I do so love it when tyrants decide to be humanitarians."
by Elyreia » Sat Oct 07, 2023 5:26 am
Askrieg wrote:Also, my previous points of amendments and alternative mechanisms, while also exceptions regarding nations that has an effective means of conscription is being delivered beautifully by Delegate from Elyreia:Elyreia wrote: "A luxury not every nation provides, as you correctly stated. All said, I feel the response would be to mandate allowing such provisos and alternatives, rather than outright prohibition on the entire service itself."
They set their hand on the desk before them, "Thus, the Principality will remain in Opposition to this proposed legislation, but would gladly welcome the submission to this House an amendment addressing the concerns noted - lack of alternatives to service outside conscientious or religious objectors, and guarantees of non-discrimination tied to any remedies therein."
Dr. Daendels sits down, and gestures towards his aides to bring him more deep-dish pies.
by Tinhampton » Sat Oct 07, 2023 12:32 pm
by Orcuo » Sat Oct 07, 2023 12:39 pm
by Juansonia » Sat Oct 07, 2023 4:23 pm
I didn;t expect that this would hit vote by the time that I came back.Tinhampton wrote:"Ban on Forced Service" was defeated 11,134 votes to 2,810. (20.15% support)
Space Squid wrote:Each sin should get it's own month.
Right now, Pride gets June, and Greed, Envy, and Gluttony have to share Thanksgiving/Black Friday through Christmas, Sloth gets one day in September, and Lust gets one day in February.
It's not equitable at all
Gandoor wrote:Cliché: A mod making a reply that's full of swearing after someone asks if you're allowed to swear on this site.
It makes me chuckle every time it happens.
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