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by Sombreland » Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:25 am
by Anagonia » Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:52 pm
Ambassador Max Gill:
I concur with Prince du Hulfe. I second the proposal that Count Teramon lead the investigation. I further recommend that the Security Council, upon delegation of the investigation to the Council of Tribunes, leaves the investigation and its result unto the Tribunes to be completed by report to the Security Council. Whatever they may recommend, it should be our duty to act on such recommendation.
by Darlingtown » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:03 pm
- SACHI -
"Forgive me if I am mistaken, but I do not believe the roles of Tribune are differentiated in such a way that there is a 'First' Tribune. All Tribunes are coequals and there is no hierarchy currently in place for the Tribunal. Of course, if this is indeed the case, I would very much love to see where in the Charter such a designation is found or who has been given the authority to hand out such a distinction.
Regardless, it would be wise to delegate the actual leading of the investigation to another party so that the Tribunal can remain as spotless and unbiased as possible, should its judgement be required. For this reason I will suggest that the Overseer of Humanitarian Affairs be the one to lead such an investigation, seeing as how this falls potentially under their purview. Let it not be forgotten that the Tribunal is merely a judiciary, and that it is not within its jurisdiction to execute an actual investigation itself. That would be what an executive office is for."
by Anagonia » Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:50 am
Ambassador Max Gill:
Of course. All Tribunes are equals to my understanding. As you noted, Ambassador SACHI, it is my duty as an executive body to start such a process. Do you have any recommendations for an independent panel?
by Darlingtown » Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:52 am
- SACHI -
"It's fine, there has been no damage done here. Mistakes and miscommunications happen, and I'd be a fool to not recognize that. I'm just grateful there was an opportunity to clarify this now, rather than in a place and time where it might of incidentally caused more damage. If anything, Ambassador Gill, I thank you and Prince de Hulfe for voicing this now.
As for a recommendation, as I said earlier I believe it would be a good idea to let the Overseer of Humanitarian Affairs take the executive lead of this investigation. That said, as Tribune I will render whatever assistance I am able to, and I am sure my fellow Tribunes will do the same."
by Sombreland » Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:16 pm
by Darlingtown » Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:58 pm
- SACHI -
"If no other action is currently underway by the Overseer of Humanitarian Affairs, then wouldn't they also not be distracted from the assignment? More so than Count Teramon, as he would de facto be involved in more than just leading the investigation by also being Tribune for this case. Furthermore, while I do not doubt that Count Teramon's credentials are immaculate, it is simply not the jurisdiction for the Tribune to execute such an investigation. Indeed, if there needs to be an investigation on possible crimes committed against the civil population in Rome it would most definitely fall under the jurisdiction of the Office of Humanitarian Affairs, no? Would their office not be most qualified to conduct such an investigation?
And as I have pointed out earlier, keeping the Tribune separate from the investigation itself will help prevent any potential accusations from being levied against the Tribunal, which will or will not happen regardless of Count Teramon's pedigree in Sombreland. Which, might I add, the credentials you have presented on his behalf are as a jurist and not as a criminal investigator. So his appointment to lead the investigation seems to be one where such an argument simply does not make sense. It makes far more sense to delegate this matter to an executive office, for both the Tribunal's sake and also for the sake of jurisdictional integrity.
It may be Sombreland's wish to see Count Teramon expand his jurisdiction into the offices of others, but that will not be acceptable in this organization. There are jurisdictional lines in place with executive function being separated from the judiciary, and I doubt Sombreland would stand for such an overstep in the other direction, should one suggest the Overseer of Humanitarian Affairs should act as judge in this matter.
Now, is that 'very good reason' enough to satisfy the Sombrelandian delegation, or shall I continue to expound on why such an appointment makes no sense and would be a step backwards for this prestigious organization? I can provide more argumentation if you desire, whether that's because you remain unconvinced or you have simply become enamored by the sound of my voice."
by Sombreland » Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:35 am
by Europe a Nation » Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:02 pm
"Your highness, this Security Council meeting was initiated by a report from the Overseer of Humanitarian Affairs, Claire Graf, on potential war crimes and the deteriorating situation in the Roman Empire. I'm not sure what led you to conclude that this department isn't doing its job or isn't qualified to do so, but I find it very dishonest. Regarding your proposal, I understand you are claiming that we are not simply conducting a humanitarian investigation but also political and military investigation. That is correct, but I do not think a nation with a caste system is the most suitable to investigate crimes against humanity.
Therefore I am requesting that specifically the investigation of war crimes and crimes against humanity to be delegated to the Department of Humanitarian Affairs."
WE LIVE IN A PERIOD
by Sombreland » Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:05 pm
by Darlingtown » Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:27 pm
- SACHI -
"Ambassador Talleyrand, there had neither been an accusation levied that the Department of Humanitarian Affairs is not qualified for this assignment nor an intention to say it has been willfully idle with its duties. Furthermore it would be appreciated if such accusations are not levied against the Tribunal. The majority has elected Sombreland to fill one of three Tribunal positions and so this organization's judgement has found the internal affairs of the Kingdom of Sombreland to be a non-issue. And while I may disagree with the Sombrelandian delegation's request, such an accusation is uncalled for.
Prince de Hulfe, despite my agreement in the matter that such an accusation should not have been brought here, I suggest you keep your own emotions in check at this time. This is the Security Council, not some high school cafeteria, and if we cannot count on you to keep a level head I will submit a request to your government to have you replaced. There is absolutely no need to escalate this situation, and such an escalation here will not be tolerated.
I expect the both of you to dismiss your biases while at this table. We are not here to debate the honor of Sombreland or the competency of Europe. This is a question of jurisdiction and nothing else. I will ask you not to derail this Council with petty bickering or chest-puffing again.
If that is now behind us, I will say that the Department of Humanitarian Affairs is not simply military in its scope. And regardless, it would still fall upon an executive office to carry out this investigation. Not the judiciary. So if it does not fall upon the Department of Humanitarian Affairs, it would then default to the Secretary-General and whomever he would have delegated to this role. It is not the place of a judge to conduct a criminal investigation, only to review what is brought before them and make a judgement. Is this not the manner in how such an investigation works?"
by Sombreland » Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:40 pm
by Europe a Nation » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:19 pm
"Your highness, I am not accusing you. Your nations your traditions but if Kingdom of Sombreland wishes to to investigate human rights violation on behalf of ICON, we have reservations."
WE LIVE IN A PERIOD
by Sombreland » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:53 pm
by Anagonia » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:29 pm
Ambassador Max Gill:
Order! I call order to this Council! The representatives thereof shall conduct themselves appropriately or be temporarily dismissed from the session.
Now....this entire debate is about who gets the privilege to conduct this investigation - to lead it. I have been earnest in my desire to open my decision making process to this Council, however I will state if this Council shall conduct itself inappropriately again, I will halt further debate and make a final decision. As Secretary-General, I have that right, and I will utilize that right. Ladies and Gentlemen, this session is intended to be open to you to help finalize my decision so I may fairly make it, not for me to become some sort of despot and impose it on you. But impose it I shall if you cannot control yourselves!
I admit that both parties have excellent points on who can lead this investigation. Let me remark, however, that the department dealing with humanitarian affairs would likely be the best to comprehend and react to the situation on the ground. The Tribunes would also be best to identify war crimes. I propose a compromise: Humanitarian Affairs and the Tribunes conduct a joint investigation.
Let us debate that. What say you, Council?
by Neo-Western East Korea » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:53 pm
Cirina Norikova
Slightly nonplussed by the slight argument (and the Sombrelanders smug comments on the rightful presence of the military in politics) finally decided to speak up.
“Neo-Korea is in favor of a compromise of some sort upon the manner, although it is equally in favor of handing the matter to the Department of Humanitarian Affairs”.
Reclining slightly back in her chair, Cirina took a sip of water, hoping this matter would be done with soon.
by Darlingtown » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:30 pm
- SACHI -
"A compromise, as the Secretary-General has suggested, would be acceptable on Darlingtown's end. Frankly it's not a question of qualification at all for me, but rather the only concern of mine is jurisdiction. The leading of an investigation is very clearly an executive function. Now, whether the duty falls upon the Office of Humanitarian Affairs or if the Sombrelandian delegation would like to propose the creation of an office and likewise propose Count Teramon to be selected to that office is of no consequence to me, so long as the actual execution of the investigation falls under an executive department...or the Secretary-General himself, if he should so desire.
Any solution currently in the parameters of discussion, save for ones which bypass executive function, are equally acceptable to me."
by Sombreland » Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:22 pm
by Darlingtown » Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:30 pm
- SACHI -
"Perhaps I was not heard correctly. If so, my apologies. I am not married to the idea of appointing the Overseer of Humanitarian Affairs to lead this investigation. As I have just said, I would be equally fine with it being assigned to a new department created to carry out such actions. Perhaps even one that Count Teramon could be appointed to.
My suggesting of the Office of Humanitarian Affairs was merely choosing the closest currently established executive office we have. I do not have a defense for its leadership because that is simply not the argument I am making. In the end, jurisdictionally the matter falls under the Secretary-General and whether he wishes to expand the Office of Humanitarian Affairs to cover this or if he would prefer to establish a new office. Beyond differentiating executive power from judicial, I have no argument nor concern."
by Sombreland » Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:38 pm
by Anagonia » Thu Jan 26, 2023 5:48 pm
Ambassador Max Gill:
Cooperation is a key component of ICON and how we work together. I proposed that two departments work in unison to solve this crisis. I stand by that proposal based on what I've heard. To that end, I will expand the Office of Humanitarian Affairs to include a "warcrimes division" and enable it the effective and proper way to investigate humanitarian events - such as, clearly, war crimes. In this event, however, we must allow the Tribunes and the Office of Humanitarian Affairs to work together. This is clearly an ICON affair. I state that this should be a precedent, that insofar as criminal actions of ICON members that in the case of war crimes, both the Office of Humanitarian Affairs and the Council of Tribunes shall work coequally on the cause to file justifiable and reasonable reports and charges.
Now I leave it up to both the Council of Tribunes and Humanitarian Affairs to elect their charges who shall work together on this situation.
by Europe a Nation » Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:00 pm
"Mr Secretary-General, Ms President, thank you for offering the compromise. The government of Europe a Nation agrees on your proposal. Thank you."
WE LIVE IN A PERIOD
by Darlingtown » Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:04 pm
- SACHI -
"Darlingtown will also accept and support this proposal. Thank you, Secretary-General, for helping us find a reasonable compromise so that we may begin the investigation both swiftly and properly."
by Anagonia » Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:32 pm
by Sombreland » Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:57 pm
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