Ukrainian War Thread III: The Horrors

[Corrian]

Rumors confirmed that Putin has cancer and had an assassination attempt on him on March.

Can't believe I'm rooting for cancer but here we are.

Cancer needs to work faster for once and unfortunately it was an attempt.

[The Two Jerseys]

Kinda random but apparently Flight Simulator 2020 is considering adding the blown up large Ukrainian plane to their "Local legends" plane series.

It would be funny if FS prevented Russian-made aircraft models from flying over European and North American airspace.

[The North Polish Union]

In what world is it harder to mention Russia's concerns in Russia than in the US?

NPU, you knew exactly where I was going.

No, I genuinely don't

[Shofercia]

NPU, you knew exactly where I was going.

No, I genuinely don't

My point was that it's hard to talk about the war from Russia's perspective in the US without being branded a Kremlin stooge. It's much harder to talk about the war from Ukraine's perspective in Russia, without suffering larger consequences than in the US. And it's nearly impossible to talk about the war from Russia's perspective in Ukraine, which banned eleven political parties. That's where I was going.

[Hukhalia]

Rumors confirmed that Putin has cancer and had an assassination attempt on him on March.

Can't believe I'm rooting for cancer but here we are.

can i have like. a source. for any of this.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Meanwhile in Russia (Swedish article w. Russian sauces)
"Pls never mention that our Blitzkrieg has dragged on for three months and all we done for 20 thousand casualties and 100 days is to seize piles of rubble."

[Port Caverton]

Daily reminder that Gonzalo Lira should be waterboarded

*** Warned for trolling *** ... One-time reminder that you do not get to advocate violence against an actual person, no matter how much you dislike them or their views.

I've called for the neutron bombing of the south (if they secede), called for autocrats to be drone striked and called for US politicians to get sent to Guantanamo Bay (even though they torture people there) and somehow this is what gets me warned?

[Senkaku]

Rumors confirmed that Putin has cancer and had an assassination attempt on him on March.

Can't believe I'm rooting for cancer but here we are.

can i have like. a source. for any of this.

https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-puti ... 0357?amp=1 <<< Newsweek yesterday, from unnamed US intelligence sources, I think INews also picked it up but big outlets don’t seem to be? Idk what’s up

[Farnhamia]

*** Warned for trolling *** ... One-time reminder that you do not get to advocate violence against an actual person, no matter how much you dislike them or their views.

I've called for the neutron bombing of the south (if they secede), called for autocrats to be drone striked and called for US politicians to get sent to Guantanamo Bay (even though they torture people there) and somehow this is what gets me warned?

If you name specific individuals, you get warned. Your ITG "kill 'em all" act isn't as impressive as you may think.

[Port Caverton]

I've called for the neutron bombing of the south (if they secede), called for autocrats to be drone striked and called for US politicians to get sent to Guantanamo Bay (even though they torture people there) and somehow this is what gets me warned?

If you name specific individuals, you get warned. Your ITG "kill 'em all" act isn't as impressive as you may think.

Ok thanks for clarifying because it seemed a bit odd to me.

[Gallia-]

"Americans" is a reference to the people, not the country. Also, countries do not award units, governments do, but by reading those posts I'm slowly beginning to understand how Larry Elder, a person who's been arguing against wrongful imprisonment of blacks for his entire life, was branded as "the black face of white supremacy"

Y'mean like that one time the 9th Paras got knighted for using live ammo to break up a peaceful protest in Ireland?

Or would this be more like Obama congratulating a police officer for kneeling of George Floyd's neck?

The 9th Infantry Division got two Presidential Unit Citations for obliterating civilians in the Mekong Delta during Speedy Express.

That's a more straightforward comparison. I guess this means Russia is at the same level of social nuance and grace as 1960's America.

[Antipatros]

EU blacklists "butchers" of Bucha and Mariupol in latest Russia sanctions
German lawmakers approve 100 bln euro military revamp
Russian-held nuclear plant faces critical shortage of spare parts, says Kyiv

[Malicious NPU]

No, I genuinely don't

My point was that it's hard to talk about the war from Russia's perspective in the US without being branded a Kremlin stooge. It's much harder to talk about the war from Ukraine's perspective in Russia, without suffering larger consequences than in the US. And it's nearly impossible to talk about the war from Russia's perspective in Ukraine, which banned eleven political parties. That's where I was going.

Ah, it was worded so that it seemed like Russia's perspective was difficult to talk about in the US, harder to talk about in Russia, and almost impossible to talk about in Ukraine. It makes more sense now.

Of course, its necessarily next to impossible to advocate for the Russian position in Ukraine when that position involves the tying up and massacring of civilians in basements. It is hardly surprising that you (likely intentionally) neglected to include that fact in your analysis despite taking note of Ukraine's banning political parties that would support such a position.

[The Two Jerseys]

Y'mean like that one time the 9th Paras got knighted for using live ammo to break up a peaceful protest in Ireland?

Or would this be more like Obama congratulating a police officer for kneeling of George Floyd's neck?

The 9th Infantry Division got two Presidential Unit Citations for obliterating civilians in the Mekong Delta during Speedy Express.

That's a more straightforward comparison. I guess this means Russia is at the same level of social nuance and grace as 1960's America.

So...Russia is lynching negroes?

[Antipatros]

Y'mean like that one time the 9th Paras got knighted for using live ammo to break up a peaceful protest in Ireland?

Or would this be more like Obama congratulating a police officer for kneeling of George Floyd's neck?

The 9th Infantry Division got two Presidential Unit Citations for obliterating civilians in the Mekong Delta during Speedy Express.

That's a more straightforward comparison. I guess this means Russia is at the same level of social nuance and grace as 1960's America.

There is a reason Americans are disliked in many parts of the world. You're not going to hear me whine about "Americanophobia" from people who have legitimate grievances anytime soon.

[Shofercia]

My point was that it's hard to talk about the war from Russia's perspective in the US without being branded a Kremlin stooge. It's much harder to talk about the war from Ukraine's perspective in Russia, without suffering larger consequences than in the US. And it's nearly impossible to talk about the war from Russia's perspective in Ukraine, which banned eleven political parties. That's where I was going.

Ah, it was worded so that it seemed like Russia's perspective was difficult to talk about in the US, harder to talk about in Russia, and almost impossible to talk about in Ukraine. It makes more sense now.

Of course, its necessarily next to impossible to advocate for the Russian position in Ukraine when that position involves the tying up and massacring of civilians in basements. It is hardly surprising that you (likely intentionally) neglected to include that fact in your analysis despite taking note of Ukraine's banning political parties that would support such a position.

Even Russia's position such as "Crimea's ours" can get you thrown in jail in Ukraine, whereas even in the US it's been accepted as a de facto fait accompli. Furthermore, the Ukrainian parties that were banned most definitely do NOT support such a position. I don't know how they do it in Poland, but in the rest of the World political parties don't support the slaughter of their own voters.

[The North Polish Union]

Ah, it was worded so that it seemed like Russia's perspective was difficult to talk about in the US, harder to talk about in Russia, and almost impossible to talk about in Ukraine. It makes more sense now.

Of course, its necessarily next to impossible to advocate for the Russian position in Ukraine when that position involves the tying up and massacring of civilians in basements. It is hardly surprising that you (likely intentionally) neglected to include that fact in your analysis despite taking note of Ukraine's banning political parties that would support such a position.

Even Russia's position such as "Crimea's ours" can get you thrown in jail in Ukraine, whereas even in the US it's been accepted as a de facto fait accompli. Furthermore, the Ukrainian parties that were banned most definitely do NOT support such a position. I don't know how they do it in Poland, but in the rest of the World political parties don't support the slaughter of their own voters.

Taking a "Crimea's ours" position in Ukraine would not be pro-Russian.

In any case, most of (if not all?) of the banned parties were ones from a rich ideological tradition that, while it may not necessarily have shot Ukrainian civilians to death in basements, certainly seemed enthusiastic about starving them to death. Obviously they don't kill their own voters until they've been in power for 15-20 years, but anyone who failed to vote for them has a tendency to be part of the counter-revolution and is fair game. In fact it did work in Poland this way as well.

EDIT: Broken links

[Hukhalia]

Even Russia's position such as "Crimea's ours" can get you thrown in jail in Ukraine, whereas even in the US it's been accepted as a de facto fait accompli. Furthermore, the Ukrainian parties that were banned most definitely do NOT support such a position. I don't know how they do it in Poland, but in the rest of the World political parties don't support the slaughter of their own voters.

Taking a "Crimea's ours" position in Ukraine would not be pro-Russian.

In any case, most of (if not all?) of the banned parties were ones from a rich ideological tradition that, while it may not necessarily have shot Ukrainian civilians to death in basements, certainly seemed enthusiastic about starving them to death. Obviously they don't kill their own voters until they've been in power for 15-20 years, but anyone who failed to vote for them has a tendency to be part of the counter-revolution and is fair game. In fact it did work in Poland this way as well. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustów_roundup)

EDIT: Broken links

oh boy is the holodomor genocide bullshit being chucked around again

[The Selkie]

[...]
German lawmakers approve 100 bln euro military revamp
[...]

100 billion Euros, pulled right out of Christian Lindner's arse - that sounds impressive... until you remember that the Bundeswehr needs 20 billion Euros alone to refill its depleted ammunition depots. 15 billion are reserved for the Tornado-Replacement (most likely the F-35), further 5 billion for heavy transport helicopters, 3 billion for digitized communications and new radios, 2 billion for new Corvettes, 0.6 billion for a modernization of the Patriot-SAMs... the main issue of the Bundeswehr is not, that it needs more, but that it needs for that, what it has, to work properly.
Or, if Alfons Mais, Lieutenant General and Inspecteur of the Heer, is to be believed, that they have something.
(The Article is in German.)

[Archinstinct]

There's a partisan movement around melitopol now.

[Racoda]

oh boy is the holodomor genocide bullshit being chucked around again

of course this comes from a tankie

[Hukhalia]

oh boy is the holodomor genocide bullshit being chucked around again

of course this comes from a tankie

to be fair you'd be hard pressed to find reputable mainstream historians nowadays who think stalin genuinely committed a genocide on the ukrainian people lol

[Spirit of Hope]

of course this comes from a tankie

to be fair you'd be hard pressed to find reputable mainstream historians nowadays who think stalin genuinely committed a genocide on the ukrainian people lol

I'm not sure what you mean by this. General consensus is that the Holodomor happened.

Specifically that there were major famins throughout the USSR during 1932 and 1933 caused by the central government of the USSR that disproportionately effected Ukrainians and other ethnic minorities in the USSR. The debate is mostly over to what extent the central government, and Stalin, intended the mass starvation to kill specific ethnicities or if it was only based on class.

[Sordhau]

to be fair you'd be hard pressed to find reputable mainstream historians nowadays who think stalin genuinely committed a genocide on the ukrainian people lol

I'm not sure what you mean by this. General consensus is that the Holodomor happened.

Specifically that there were major famins throughout the USSR during 1932 and 1933 caused by the central government of the USSR that disproportionately effected Ukrainians and other ethnic minorities in the USSR. The debate is mostly over to what extent the central government, and Stalin, intended the mass starvation to kill specific ethnicities or if it was only based on class.

That's his point. He doesn't deny that it happened, he denies that it was intentional. We've discussed this topic before.

[Republic Of Ludwigsburg]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. General consensus is that the Holodomor happened.

Specifically that there were major famins throughout the USSR during 1932 and 1933 caused by the central government of the USSR that disproportionately effected Ukrainians and other ethnic minorities in the USSR. The debate is mostly over to what extent the central government, and Stalin, intended the mass starvation to kill specific ethnicities or if it was only based on class.

That's his point. He doesn't deny that it happened, he denies that it was intentional. We've discussed this topic before.

When Russians were affected by famine, the USSR went out of their way to give them food aid. During the holodomor, the Soviet Union's government took 4 million tons of grain from Ukraine (which could feed 12 million people!) AND continued to export grain. The USSR gave only 170k-325k tons of grain for aid, which compared to 4 million tons, ISN'T REALLY A LOT. Do not forget, that the famine affected mostly Ukrainians, Kazakhs, and other ethnic minorities in the Soviet Union.