Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Esalia wrote:
I am sure this shall be much consolation to the people who would be harmed and killed by the policies you advocate.
It also fundamentally changes nothing. It doesn't matter if you don't intend to kill, your policies will kill.
"But there are worse people!" is a pretty poor justification of anything, and once again doesn't change the fact that you're advocating policies that will literally kill people.
At this point, I have to wonder if you are deliberately ignoring us.
You've been called out on advocating for something that will inevitably lead to death. The best responses you've managed to concoct are falsely accusing someone of putting words into your mouth, and consistently deflecting with such quality as:
Because crippling economic damage is somehow life-saving, and an internal revolution is somehow peaceful;
Which I am sure shall provide much comfort for those who have to live without basic necessities or loved family members;
Which not only presents a false dichotomy, but is another thing I am sure will be comforting to people suffering,
And then to finish it up by restating the exact things you've proposed?
If you don't care about Chinese citizens, or want them dead, or believe that the ends justify the means, you can just come out and say it. But right now, you're showing a concerning level of disregard for the fate of innocent Chinese people if your proposal to completely and totally cripple the Chinese economy until China revolts and liberalises ever gets enacted.
Were the allies not justified in bombing Germany? Should the British have done nothing in response to Operation Blitzkrieg? Should the whole world have watched and stood by while Hitler exterminated the Jews?
Oh wow, a Nazi comparison, I sure didn't see this coming.
If you weren't in the business of making up other people's positions, as you seem to do throughout this entire post, you'll note that I never said you couldn't do anything about China, just that your particular solution shows a callous disregard for the suffering you will cause and your willingness to dismiss that suffering under the guise of "we don't intend to cause suffering" and other quality takes.
When you and the people you care about are carted off to concentration camps to have your organs harvested because good people did nothing, come back to me.
I won't exactly be capable of coming back to you since, y'know, I'll be in a concentration camp missing a few vital organs.
Tell the Australians, who have had the temerity to call for an independent investigation into the origins of the coronavirus pandemic, that they should respond to Chinese sanctions against their country by doing absolutely nothing. Tell the Indians that they should simply allow the PLA to roll into its territory unhindered.
Why should I? Those aren't my positions, and to tell them that would be self-defeating.
Indian troops opening fire on Chinese troops can and will kill people. They should lay down their arms and surrender, amirite?
Nope. Keep trying, though. Maybe one of these times you'll land a hit.
If you don't care about the material well-being of Uighurs, Hong Kongers, Israeli Jews, or Nepalese to be free from tyranny and oppression, or you support genocidal communist and fascist tyrants and Islamist terrorists to do the shit that they do, which includes genocide and ethnic cleansing, just say so instead of pretending to care about human lives and falsely painting me as some sort of nihilist. Your virtue-signaling about the sanctity of human life rings hollow.
The second I hold any of those positions, which at this rate is around the same time Hell freezes over, pigs gain the power of flight and all evil magically disappears off the face of the Earth, I'll be sure to get back to you.
I'm not even advocating for a hot war. I'm advocating for a cold war. The former would certainly result in far greater bloodshed than the former.
Once again, "there are worse options" is not a good argument and creates a false dichotomy.
As for me, I'll be doing my bit by boycotting as many Chinese products as I possibly can, including vaccines. Feel free to have a working Chinese vaccine stuck in your arm if it so behooves you. But I have my principles. I'll be sticking with Pfizer, AstraZeneca, and Moderna even if it means waiting for longer and/or paying extra. I would sooner see the CCP toppled than to see it enslave the whole world. On this, I will not compromise.
Ok.
Congrats, by the way, on conflating opposition to your particular way of dealing with the CCP as support for the CCP as a whole. It certainly makes me value your takes more when you seem to believe that someone who doesn't think completely and totally collapsing China and killing a bunch of innocent Chinese people is a good solution is someone who secretly wants everyone to bend over backwards and take what China gives them.
Any continuation of this conversation probably belongs more in the American Politics thread or a more appropriate thread on China, and since I don't expect more from you than further deflection and dismissal, assumption of others' positions and the conflation of being anti-your position and pro-China and other quality takes, this is the last of this conversation from me.