Coronavirus Thread V: A Shot in the Arm (READ OP)

[Esalia]

I am sure this shall be much consolation to the people who would be harmed and killed by the policies you advocate.

It also fundamentally changes nothing. It doesn't matter if you don't intend to kill, your policies will kill.



"But there are worse people!" is a pretty poor justification of anything, and once again doesn't change the fact that you're advocating policies that will literally kill people.



At this point, I have to wonder if you are deliberately ignoring us.

You've been called out on advocating for something that will inevitably lead to death. The best responses you've managed to concoct are falsely accusing someone of putting words into your mouth, and consistently deflecting with such quality as:


Because crippling economic damage is somehow life-saving, and an internal revolution is somehow peaceful;

Which I am sure shall provide much comfort for those who have to live without basic necessities or loved family members;

Which not only presents a false dichotomy, but is another thing I am sure will be comforting to people suffering,

And then to finish it up by restating the exact things you've proposed?

If you don't care about Chinese citizens, or want them dead, or believe that the ends justify the means, you can just come out and say it. But right now, you're showing a concerning level of disregard for the fate of innocent Chinese people if your proposal to completely and totally cripple the Chinese economy until China revolts and liberalises ever gets enacted.

Were the allies not justified in bombing Germany? Should the British have done nothing in response to Operation Blitzkrieg? Should the whole world have watched and stood by while Hitler exterminated the Jews?

Oh wow, a Nazi comparison, I sure didn't see this coming.

If you weren't in the business of making up other people's positions, as you seem to do throughout this entire post, you'll note that I never said you couldn't do anything about China, just that your particular solution shows a callous disregard for the suffering you will cause and your willingness to dismiss that suffering under the guise of "we don't intend to cause suffering" and other quality takes.

When you and the people you care about are carted off to concentration camps to have your organs harvested because good people did nothing, come back to me.

I won't exactly be capable of coming back to you since, y'know, I'll be in a concentration camp missing a few vital organs.

Tell the Australians, who have had the temerity to call for an independent investigation into the origins of the coronavirus pandemic, that they should respond to Chinese sanctions against their country by doing absolutely nothing. Tell the Indians that they should simply allow the PLA to roll into its territory unhindered.

Why should I? Those aren't my positions, and to tell them that would be self-defeating.

Indian troops opening fire on Chinese troops can and will kill people. They should lay down their arms and surrender, amirite?

Nope. Keep trying, though. Maybe one of these times you'll land a hit.

If you don't care about the material well-being of Uighurs, Hong Kongers, Israeli Jews, or Nepalese to be free from tyranny and oppression, or you support genocidal communist and fascist tyrants and Islamist terrorists to do the shit that they do, which includes genocide and ethnic cleansing, just say so instead of pretending to care about human lives and falsely painting me as some sort of nihilist. Your virtue-signaling about the sanctity of human life rings hollow.

The second I hold any of those positions, which at this rate is around the same time Hell freezes over, pigs gain the power of flight and all evil magically disappears off the face of the Earth, I'll be sure to get back to you.

I'm not even advocating for a hot war. I'm advocating for a cold war. The former would certainly result in far greater bloodshed than the former.

Once again, "there are worse options" is not a good argument and creates a false dichotomy.

As for me, I'll be doing my bit by boycotting as many Chinese products as I possibly can, including vaccines. Feel free to have a working Chinese vaccine stuck in your arm if it so behooves you. But I have my principles. I'll be sticking with Pfizer, AstraZeneca, and Moderna even if it means waiting for longer and/or paying extra. I would sooner see the CCP toppled than to see it enslave the whole world. On this, I will not compromise.

Ok.

Congrats, by the way, on conflating opposition to your particular way of dealing with the CCP as support for the CCP as a whole. It certainly makes me value your takes more when you seem to believe that someone who doesn't think completely and totally collapsing China and killing a bunch of innocent Chinese people is a good solution is someone who secretly wants everyone to bend over backwards and take what China gives them.

Any continuation of this conversation probably belongs more in the American Politics thread or a more appropriate thread on China, and since I don't expect more from you than further deflection and dismissal, assumption of others' positions and the conflation of being anti-your position and pro-China and other quality takes, this is the last of this conversation from me.

[Nakena]

tfw the PRC cannot be worse because the USA is the designated evil oppressor and only Adolf Hitler is worse really.

Imagine being so programmed on that, you're unable to recognize something else being actually worse because it is not supposed to be in your programming that there can be something worse.

[Esalia]

tfw the PRC cannot be worse because the USA is the designated evil oppressor and only Adolf Hitler is worse really.

Imagine being so programmed on that, you're unable to recognize something else being actually worse because it is not supposed to be in your programming that there can be something worse.

What?

[Nakena]

tfw the PRC cannot be worse because the USA is the designated evil oppressor and only Adolf Hitler is worse really.

Imagine being so programmed on that, you're unable to recognize something else being actually worse because it is not supposed to be in your programming that there can be something worse.

What?

Exactly what I said.

If this happened from the USA or so you would be far more critical. Instead you're indirectly defending the Xiist china.

Same with Liri whom i otherwise respected. But nothing can be worse than the US. Not even death itself. Not even 1,6 million dead. Well maybe Mecha Zombie Hitler is worse. But thats only because Hitler is the programmed nr 1 historical enemy. In lieu of that, the US have to suffice, because supposedly they created an race of oppressed.

[Esalia]

What?

Exactly what I said.

If this happened from the USA or so you would be far more critical.

If the roles were flipped, I would still be holding the same exact position I do now.

Instead you're indirectly defending the Xiist china.

I guess we just can't avoid conflating opposition to certain solutions to dealing with an evil country with support for that evil country.

Same with Liri whom i otherwise respected. But nothing can be worse than the US. Not even death itself. Not even 1,6 million dead. Well maybe Mecha Zombie Hitler is worse. But thats only because Hitler is the programmed nr 1 historical enemy. In lieu of that, the US have to suffice, because supposedly they created an race of oppressed.

America, despite all its many flaws, is a much better country than China. To me, at least.

There are also many things worse than America in its current form, such as China in its current form.

[Nakena]

Exactly what I said.

If this happened from the USA or so you would be far more critical.

If the roles were flipped, I would still be holding the same exact position I do now.

Instead you're indirectly defending the Xiist china.

I guess we just can't avoid conflating opposition to certain solutions to dealing with an evil country with support for that evil country.

Same with Liri whom i otherwise respected. But nothing can be worse than the US. Not even death itself. Not even 1,6 million dead. Well maybe Mecha Zombie Hitler is worse. But thats only because Hitler is the programmed nr 1 historical enemy. In lieu of that, the US have to suffice, because supposedly they created an race of oppressed.

America, despite all its many flaws, is a much better country than China. To me, at least.

There are also many things worse than America in its current form, such as China in its current form.

Fair enough. I rest the case.

[Cultural Posadism]

Same with Liri whom i otherwise respected.

You won't see me deny that the PRC is fucking awful in waaaaaay too many respects. From their neglectful and malicious early mishandling of this pandemic to the genocide of the Uyghurs to their everyday totalitarianism and personality cult. What I object to when it comes to GHK and others isn't criticism of the PRC in and of itself. What I take issue with is the extreme lengths they will go to in their anti-Chinese hysteria. It's one thing to identify the PRC's rise to global power as a threat to human rights. It's another to advocate for genocide in all but name against the Chinese people or, as GHK is wont to do, lumping everyone to the left of Trump into the same category as the CCP.

[Nakena]

You won't see me deny that the PRC is fucking awful in waaaaaay too many respects. From their neglectful and malicious early mishandling of this pandemic to the genocide of the Uyghurs to their everyday totalitarianism and personality cult. What I object to when it comes to GHK and others isn't criticism of the PRC in and of itself. What I take issue with is the extreme lengths they will go to in their anti-Chinese hysteria. It's one thing to identify the PRC's rise to global power as a threat to human rights. It's another to advocate for genocide in all but name against the Chinese people or, as GHK is wont to do, lumping everyone to the left of Trump into the same category as the CCP.

Theres a reason I am referencing the PRC as that or call them Beijing Clique etc. Whatever. But I do not give them the benefit of calling them "China" because the proper chinese state is really only existing on a small island named Taiwan and goes by the official monika of Republic of China.

Besides, I believe the PRC/CCP is far more neglectfully complicit in this desaster than currently known and probably some stuff is swept under the rug by most media and quite possibly even the Trump administration itself, because for when some details might surface, the public opinion would demand some very harsh and serious response to the initial coverup of the outbreak.

This may yet to come.

[Major-Tom]

300,000 Americans are dead, at this point, I think maybe discussions of China should take the back burner to our own domestic affairs when it comes to COVID-19. The virus spread from China to every country in the world, that is no longer relevant when most governments can effectively handle the challenge they've been given.

That isn't to say that China isn't a geopolitical threat, but continually bringing China back into the COVID discussion is just lazy at this point.

[Nakena]

300,000 Americans are dead

Yes and thats why theres a nuclear deterrence. It's exactly to prevent a situation like this.

To prevent other powers and hostile actors, who pull serious shit either through intention - or in this case neglect and deception - to ever get away with that or get this far in the first place.

[Kowani]

The new, more contagious strain of COVID has appeared in Colorado

[Neutraligon]

The new, more contagious strain of COVID has appeared in Colorado

If we are lucky the vaccine will spread quickly (there are others in the pipeline for approval) and will work with this strain.

[Major-Tom]

The new, more contagious strain of COVID has appeared in Colorado

If we are lucky the vaccine will spread quickly (there are others in the pipeline for approval) and will work with this strain.

Time will tell, I imagine we have until at least February before numbers are truly "low" comparable to the spring, summer and now winter waves respectfully.

300,000 Americans are dead

Yes and thats why theres a nuclear deterrence. It's exactly to prevent a situation like this.

To prevent other powers and hostile actors, either through intention - or in this case neglect and deception - ever get away with that or get this far in the first place.

Sure. That just isn't currently at the forefront of my mind. So I'll drop it.

[Neutraligon]

If we are lucky the vaccine will spread quickly (there are others in the pipeline for approval) and will work with this strain.

Time will tell, I imagine we have until at least February before numbers are truly "low" comparable to the spring, summer and now winter waves respectfully.

Yes and thats why theres a nuclear deterrence. It's exactly to prevent a situation like this.

To prevent other powers and hostile actors, either through intention - or in this case neglect and deception - ever get away with that or get this far in the first place.

Sure. That just isn't currently at the forefront of my mind. So I'll drop it.

Hmm, numbers I hear was March for group 1 to be completely vaccinated and group 2 to start getting vaccinated, though that also depends on those other vaccines I mentioned. I believe one of those vaccines is supposed to work better in below 65 groups, which means that those who are young would likely start using that vaccine while those who are older would use the 2 that are out now.

[New Visayan Islands]

Data for PH as of December 29th, 1600 PHT/0300 EST.

Detailed update in Tagalog. Key data to consider:

• 13464 people were tested, with 793 testing positive for SARS-CoV-2.
• 886 people were added to the "I have The Coof" tally.
• 253 people moved to the "I survived The Coof" tally, and 38 people croaked.

Also:

• "Coof Shots for them, but not for us?!"
• Even the high-rollers are hurting.
• #FreeZhangZhan
• "We did nothing wrong!"

[Dresderstan]

If we are lucky the vaccine will spread quickly (there are others in the pipeline for approval) and will work with this strain.

Time will tell, I imagine we have until at least February before numbers are truly "low" comparable to the spring, summer and now winter waves respectfully.

Yes and thats why theres a nuclear deterrence. It's exactly to prevent a situation like this.

To prevent other powers and hostile actors, either through intention - or in this case neglect and deception - ever get away with that or get this far in the first place.

Sure. That just isn't currently at the forefront of my mind. So I'll drop it.

I'm holding my breath and saying the numbers will not truly see a consistent downward trend until June and gone by 2022.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

300,000 Americans are dead, at this point, I think maybe discussions of China should take the back burner to our own domestic affairs when it comes to COVID-19. The virus spread from China to every country in the world, that is no longer relevant when most governments can effectively handle the challenge they've been given.

That isn't to say that China isn't a geopolitical threat, but continually bringing China back into the COVID discussion is just lazy at this point.

Indeed. But some want a scapegoat, so China it is.

Frankly, China’s involvement in all of this is irrelevant now, and to the poor or null handling of the pandemic once SARS-CoV-2 reached our shores. That some insist on beating the China dead horse is... well, retarded.

[Kowani]

LA hospitals are now turning away ambulances because there is no room

[San Lumen]

The new, more contagious strain of COVID has appeared in Colorado

If we are lucky the vaccine will spread quickly (there are others in the pipeline for approval) and will work with this strain.

I hope we speed how quickly we are doing it. At the rate we are going it will take years.

[Neutraligon]

If we are lucky the vaccine will spread quickly (there are others in the pipeline for approval) and will work with this strain.

I hope we speed how quickly we are doing it. At the rate we are going it will take years.

No it won't take years to get the vaccine out in the US. We are limited by the production capacity.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Were the allies not justified in bombing Germany? Should the British have done nothing in response to Operation Blitzkrieg? Should the whole world have watched and stood by while Hitler exterminated the Jews?

Oh wow, a Nazi comparison, I sure didn't see this coming.

If you weren't in the business of making up other people's positions, as you seem to do throughout this entire post, you'll note that I never said you couldn't do anything about China, just that your particular solution shows a callous disregard for the suffering you will cause and your willingness to dismiss that suffering under the guise of "we don't intend to cause suffering" and other quality takes.

When you and the people you care about are carted off to concentration camps to have your organs harvested because good people did nothing, come back to me.

I won't exactly be capable of coming back to you since, y'know, I'll be in a concentration camp missing a few vital organs.

Tell the Australians, who have had the temerity to call for an independent investigation into the origins of the coronavirus pandemic, that they should respond to Chinese sanctions against their country by doing absolutely nothing. Tell the Indians that they should simply allow the PLA to roll into its territory unhindered.

Why should I? Those aren't my positions, and to tell them that would be self-defeating.

Indian troops opening fire on Chinese troops can and will kill people. They should lay down their arms and surrender, amirite?

Nope. Keep trying, though. Maybe one of these times you'll land a hit.

If you don't care about the material well-being of Uighurs, Hong Kongers, Israeli Jews, or Nepalese to be free from tyranny and oppression, or you support genocidal communist and fascist tyrants and Islamist terrorists to do the shit that they do, which includes genocide and ethnic cleansing, just say so instead of pretending to care about human lives and falsely painting me as some sort of nihilist. Your virtue-signaling about the sanctity of human life rings hollow.

The second I hold any of those positions, which at this rate is around the same time Hell freezes over, pigs gain the power of flight and all evil magically disappears off the face of the Earth, I'll be sure to get back to you.

I'm not even advocating for a hot war. I'm advocating for a cold war. The former would certainly result in far greater bloodshed than the former.

Once again, "there are worse options" is not a good argument and creates a false dichotomy.

As for me, I'll be doing my bit by boycotting as many Chinese products as I possibly can, including vaccines. Feel free to have a working Chinese vaccine stuck in your arm if it so behooves you. But I have my principles. I'll be sticking with Pfizer, AstraZeneca, and Moderna even if it means waiting for longer and/or paying extra. I would sooner see the CCP toppled than to see it enslave the whole world. On this, I will not compromise.

Ok.

Congrats, by the way, on conflating opposition to your particular way of dealing with the CCP as support for the CCP as a whole. It certainly makes me value your takes more when you seem to believe that someone who doesn't think completely and totally collapsing China and killing a bunch of innocent Chinese people is a good solution is someone who secretly wants everyone to bend over backwards and take what China gives them.

Any continuation of this conversation probably belongs more in the American Politics thread or a more appropriate thread on China, and since I don't expect more from you than further deflection and dismissal, assumption of others' positions and the conflation of being anti-your position and pro-China and other quality takes, this is the last of this conversation from me.

You falsely accuse me of basically advocating genocide and mass murder in all but name, yet you complain that I'm the one who's strawmanning you. And you're the one who insisted on continuing a potential threadjack that I tried on multiple occasions to steer back on topic.

And to respond to your previous post regarding comfort and consolation over the fact that intentions matter, the truth wasn't meant to be comforting. It was simply meant to be the truth. As an atheist, I understand this.

300,000 Americans are dead, at this point, I think maybe discussions of China should take the back burner to our own domestic affairs when it comes to COVID-19. The virus spread from China to every country in the world, that is no longer relevant when most governments can effectively handle the challenge they've been given.

That isn't to say that China isn't a geopolitical threat, but continually bringing China back into the COVID discussion is just lazy at this point.

Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Thailand, Myanmar, India, and even Hong Kong are struggling to contain local outbreaks. I do not consider them to be success stories. Indonesia and the Philippines have been total failures in the making from Day One and my country appears to be moving in the same direction with steadily rising daily infections and asymptomatic cases now being asked to self-isolate at home where enforcement is guaranteed to fall flat. As for America, the American people are to blame for the uncontrolled spread of the virus in America and 300,000+ deaths. This will be true no matter who the president is. This is more of a cultural issue than a political one. Australia and New Zealand don't seem to have the same problem despite also being liberty-loving, English-speaking democracies with settler-colonial origins.

If anything, most governments have struggled. My country has struggled. They wouldn't be struggling today if Communist China hadn't neglected its responsibility, for which the country deserves to be hit with crippling post-pandemic sanctions and reparations in order to correct this hideous imbalance in the levers of justice and accountability. The country should be made to endure the same kinds of economic hardships that Americans, Europeans, and other people have suffered throughout 2020 through no fault of their own. Only then will the CCP learn that there are actual, tangible consequences for bad behavior and only then will they fall in line. And if they don't, then we must tighten the noose even further until they break or are overthrown in a revolution. We must hit them where it hurts the most: their wallets, foreign imports, and vacation plans.

Might makes right is the only language these communists understand and it is the only language they have demonstrated so far in response to civil disobedience and unrest in East Turkestan and Hong Kong. It is only fitting that we respond in kind. If they refuse to play by the rules that we, the civilized democracies of the world, have set for them, then why should we continue to entertain their twisted delusions of political and ideological grandeur? There is no such thing as "international law". There is only the law of the jungle. It's sad but true.

[San Lumen]

I hope we speed how quickly we are doing it. At the rate we are going it will take years.

No it won't take years to get the vaccine out in the US. We are limited by the production capacity.

I hope not and that we can start producing faster.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

LA hospitals are now turning away ambulances because there is no room

Oh god.

[New Visayan Islands]

Data for PH as of December 30th, 1600 PHT/0300 EST.

Detailed update. Also:

• AstraZenica/Oxford: Green Light!
• "50%? No, it's actually 79% effective." (Pfizer and Moderna: "Get on our level.")
• PH SecHealth: "Yes, we fucked up."
• Smuggled Coof Shots? Cue comparisons to narcotics.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Singapore begins rollout of Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine with healthcare workers

SINGAPORE, Dec 30 (Reuters) - A 46-year-old nurse became the first person in Singapore to receive Pfizer-BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine on Wednesday, making the city-state among the first Asian countries to begin an inoculation campaign against the coronavirus.

Sarah Lim, a senior staff nurse at the National Centre for Infectious Diseases, was the first of more than 30 staff at the centre who are being vaccinated on Wednesday, the health ministry said. They will return for the second dose of the vaccine on Jan. 20.

Singapore puts Malaysia to shame yet again.