Hungary to Constitutionally Mandate Christian Gender Roles

[The New California Republic]

I'm not saying we should change what they think. Thoughtcrime is bullocks.

You don't need to convince a thief that stealing is wrong, you just need to stop him doing it.

Difference is this isn't crime, it's a people enacting a Constitutional Amendment.

It's a constitutional amendment that has human rights implications, hence why people elsewhere are justified in raising concerns about it.

[Joker is the only trump]

I'm not saying we should change what they think. Thoughtcrime is bullocks.

You don't need to convince a thief that stealing is wrong, you just need to stop him doing it.

Difference is this isn't crime, it's a people enacting a Constitutional Amendment.

It's a government proposing to enact that. You can't tell the difference?

[Necroghastia]

BY CITING PASSAGES FROM THE ARTICLE IN THE OP.

Just because you cited evidence does not mean the evidence actually indicates what you're saying. You're taking "Hungary is committing literal genocide" from "Hungary is forcing people to acknowledge their biological realities"

By preventing LGBT people from having families and outlawing any sort of non-Christian (whatever that means) gender expression. Much biological. Very reality.

[Joker is the only trump]

Difference is this isn't crime, it's a people enacting a Constitutional Amendment.

It's a constitutional amendment that has human rights implications, hence why people elsewhere are justified in raising concerns about it.

People who don't care about Hungary, don't care about Europe. And that's up there with not caring about Hitler.

[Albrenia]

I'm not saying we should change what they think. Thoughtcrime is bullocks.

You don't need to convince a thief that stealing is wrong, you just need to stop him doing it.

Difference is this isn't crime, it's a people enacting a Constitutional Amendment.

This appears to be infringing on people's human rights, which is why we care. I don't care if it is unpopular for people to have human rights, they have human rights all the same.

[Tarturous]

Reading this absolutely made my day, hopefully other countries follow suit. There's so much degeneracy surrounding Poland, nice to see a safe haven

[Tadreodal]

Just because you cited evidence does not mean the evidence actually indicates what you're saying. You're taking "Hungary is committing literal genocide" from "Hungary is forcing people to acknowledge their biological realities"

By preventing LGBT people from having families and outlawing any sort of non-Christian (whatever that means) gender expression. Much biological. Very reality.

I'm not in agreement with the part about marriage being a man and a woman but at the end of the day I don't believe it's genocide to deny someone the ability to marry. It is indeed biological reality to say "mothers are women and fathers are men", though...

[Joker is the only trump]

It's a government proposing to enact that. You can't tell the difference?

Yes, hence why I pointed out the inconsistency of the position.

Difference is this isn't crime, it's a people enacting a Constitutional Amendment.

A people can only enact anything by a referendum. Therefore you are wrong.

[Krytenia]

It's a constitutional amendment that has human rights implications, hence why people elsewhere are justified in raising concerns about it.

People who don't care about Hungary, don't care about Europe. And that's up there with not caring about Hitler.

I have a Mr Godwin on the line for you. Shall I take a message?

[Shrillland]

BY CITING PASSAGES FROM THE ARTICLE IN THE OP.

Which, as I said, do not prove your assertions.

They do becasue laws like these are often how such tragedies start. I'm not saying Hungary will have anything like this, but these kinds of laws have historically been used to ferret people out as well as cement values within.

[Necroghastia]

BY CITING PASSAGES FROM THE ARTICLE IN THE OP.

Which, as I said, do not prove your assertions.

Part of the definition of genocide as laid out by the UN is

"causing serious mental harm to members of the group, deliberately imposing living conditions that seek to "bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

Now, what part of preventing people from transitioning and forcing a Christian culture on people does not meet that?

" preventing births, or forcibly transferring children out of the group to another group.

What part of preventing same-gender couples from having children does not meet that?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

By preventing LGBT people from having families and outlawing any sort of non-Christian (whatever that means) gender expression. Much biological. Very reality.

I'm not in agreement with the part about marriage being a man and a woman but at the end of the day I don't believe it's genocide to deny someone the ability to marry. It is indeed biological reality to say "mothers are women and fathers are men", though...

The repercussions of such an amendment have indeed the possibility of costing the lives of people who don’t conform to such roles. For example, the transgender community. It also will deny kids in foster care of loving homes just based on the biology and sexual orientation of the parents. All because of “ideals”, ignoring a very poignant reality: children in foster care need loving homes, not gender roles.

[The New California Republic]

BY CITING PASSAGES FROM THE ARTICLE IN THE OP.

Which, as I said, do not prove your assertions.

Lol, actually read what Necroghastia is saying, and it'll become crystal clear that it actually does.

[Joker is the only trump]

People who don't care about Hungary, don't care about Europe. And that's up there with not caring about Hitler.

I have a Mr Godwin on the line for you. Shall I take a message?

"It only affects Hungary" is directly equivalent to "it only affects Poland". European problems affect the whole world.

[The New California Republic]

The onerous is on you to prove it

Again, what?

[The New California Republic]

None of those cited passages say that. Again, you need to cite actual evidence here.

At this point you are just ignoring what the cited text is saying, because it actually does say that.

[Necroghastia]

By preventing LGBT people from having families and outlawing any sort of non-Christian (whatever that means) gender expression. Much biological. Very reality.

I'm not in agreement with the part about marriage being a man and a woman but at the end of the day I don't believe it's genocide to deny someone the ability to marry. It is indeed biological reality to say "mothers are women and fathers are men", though...

So, if someone in a same-gender relationship has a kid through a surrogate, and that kid gets taken away and their parents imprisoned because of a failure to conform to "Christian gender roles," that's not the least bit genocidal to you?

[Joker is the only trump]

A people can only enact anything by a referendum. Therefore you are wrong.

Fun Fact: there has never been a popular referendum on Constitutional Amendments at the Federal Level.

Does that make the U.S. Constitution invalid?

Admit you were wrong, or I'm talking to someone else.

[Shrillland]

They do because laws like these are often how such tragedies start. I'm not saying Hungary will have anything like this, but these kinds of laws have historically been used to ferret people out as well as cement values within.

The onerous is on you to prove it, not just claim it. That's how the burden of proof works, both in law, politics and debates.

I'm well aware. You also notice that I did not explicitly say that such a thing would happen, but that based on things such as the Nuremburg laws and laws that forbid homosexuality or discourage it in other parts of the world, there could be an upswing in violence against such individuals.

[Necroghastia]

Part of the definition of genocide as laid out by the UN is
Now, what part of preventing people from transitioning and forcing a Christian culture on people does not meet that?

What part of preventing same-gender couples from having children does not meet that?

None of those cited passages say that. Again, you need to cite actual evidence here.

I did. It's not my fault you can't read the literal words "a government campaign to outlaw transgender identities" and "gays should not be allowed to adopt children and start families."

[Krytenia]

I have a Mr Godwin on the line for you. Shall I take a message?

"It only affects Hungary" is directly equivalent to "it only affects Poland". European problems affect the whole world.

Being in the UK, I'm fully aware of this. I'm just calling out the blatant and egregious reducio ad Hitlerum.

[Albrenia]

This appears to be infringing on people's human rights, which is why we care. I don't care if it is unpopular for people to have human rights, they have human rights all the same.

Cool, and I have equal right to say (and vote) in favor of not killing others or interfering with a nation's Democracy because it challenges my own personal political beliefs. I remember a time when Leftists took a principled stand on issues like Iraq or Libya that used, in part or wholly, the concept of Human Rights to justify their actions.

Yes, you do have the right to speak and vote thusly.

Also who said anything about military action. That would be rather overreacting, unless they really do start killing people based on gender issues or sexuality.

[Tadreodal]

None of those cited passages say that. Again, you need to cite actual evidence here.

I did. It's not my fault you can't read the literal words "a government campaign to outlaw transgender identities" and "gays should not be allowed to adopt children and start families."

outlawing someone from outright lying on the sex marker of their legal identification is not harmful to them... instilling in that person that they need to lie about their sex to be happy is arguably harmful to them

[The New California Republic]

Cool, and I have equal right to say (and vote) in favor of not killing others or interfering with a nation's Democracy because it challenges my own personal political beliefs. I remember a time when Leftists took a principled stand on issues like Iraq or Libya that used, in part or wholly, the concept of Human Rights to justify their actions.

Yes, you do have the right to speak and vote thusly.

Also who said anything about military action. That would be rather overreacting, unless they really do start killing people based on gender issues or sexuality.

It was a strawman that he introduced quite early on in this discussion. It's bad that he is still presenting it to us though.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I did. It's not my fault you can't read the literal words "a government campaign to outlaw transgender identities" and "gays should not be allowed to adopt children and start families."

outlawing someone from outright lying on the sex marker of their legal identification is not harmful to them... instilling in that person that they need to lie about their sex to be happy is arguably harmful to them

Do you think a government should impose on you what you can and can’t do with your role in life? Because that’s what this kind of law accomplished. Can people actually look at the bigger picture here too? This will affect the LGBT community now, as well as straight people in Hungary. Make no mistake about that.