2020 US General Election Thread IV: The Battle Begins

[Juristonia]

Receipts. Not vague gestures in a general direction.
Actual receipts to structural harassment by this particular group of people.

And there go the goalposts.

If by that you mean asking specifically about the specific thing he was talking about, sure.

Seriously, Vas. Come on.

[Rojava Free State]

Politics is power, and the Republicans know this far better than the Democrats. The Republicans don't give a shit about principles when it comes to playing politics, they use whatever means necessary to get their way. Playing nice and bending over isn't going to accomplish anything. They'll vote against anything purely because it comes from a Democrat. The Obama presidency is proof enough of this. It's time the Democrats went their own way.

The people who support Sanders are among those with most reason to be angry at the system, so it's fucking rich that moderate elites who support the status quo sit and cry about Sanders supporters being mean to them online. They rightfully elicit no sympathy from people whose livelihoods are at stake. Boo-hoo.

Im a moderate Democrat. According to you because I don't like Sanders I support the status quo and have no place in the party?

If it was up to me, these political parties wouldn't even exist. Not only are they beholden to special interests, but the tribalism has totally destroyed actual principle and led republicans to support trump, a known adulterer, former democrat, pro trans, pro gay, pro tariff, and very profane man. They violated their own principles as a party to own the libs. Now if that isn't partisanship gone wrong, idk what is.

Vote for your conscience. Not just to spite the other side

[San Lumen]

Im a moderate Democrat. According to you because I don't like Sanders I support the status quo and have no place in the party?

If it was up to me, these political parties wouldn't even exist. Not only are they beholden to special interests, but the tribalism has totally destroyed actual principle and led republicans to support trump, a known adulterer, former democrat, pro trans, pro gay, pro tariff, and very profane man. They violated their own principles as a party to own the libs. Now if that isn't partisanship gone wrong, idk what is.

Vote for your conscience. Not just to spite the other side

I have split ticket in the past. But as of late there has not been a single Republican I feel I could vote for.

[Rojava Free State]

Go to mayor Pete’s Facebook page. The culinary union in Nevada Said they wouldn’t be in endorsing anyone in part due to harassment from the Sanders crowd

Allot of there members rebelled against union leadership, that's why they didn't endorse. Biden didn't even care to goto Nevada after NH anyways. He burned that bridge.

Biden won't be the nominee. Even Stevie wonder could see that

[Sougra]

Liberals need to learn how to go low in the right way. You can't ignore trump while he bashes you and degrades you but you also can't turn around and go "most Americans are racist assholes and that is the only reason trump won." A great way to take trump on would be to backhand insult him at the debate like "I wanna talk really briefly about our men and women in uniform, who trump understands on account of his bravery and valor shown in Vietnam...oh wait I forgot, you didn't fight that war or any others. But I'm sure your bone spurs were real and you didn't make them up like how you lie about everything else" or "Mr Trump cares A lot about the military. The only thing he loves more is his hair, which is why he didn't visit the graves of dead soldiers in France to pay his respects, because it was raining."

Instead of trying to one-up the other on insults, a far better idea is to push for actual policies. A return to transformative politics is where it's at. Politics as a reality TV-show is retarded and distracts from actually changing the world for the better.

Also, Trump draft-dodging for Vietnam is one of the good things he did. Don't @ me.

I generally think the whole "bold and positive vision" route is best for elections, unless you're trying to fan the flames of an uprising against an established order, in which case, it depends.

And Vietnam was bad, but I will @ you in the sense that him draft dodging was not done, to my knowledge, because he didn't support the war, but because he didn't want to go and keep living comfy and rich. So parts of that are good, in the sense he didn't contribute to Vietnam, but his intent is, to me, largely based off of greed and a lack of solidarity with other people, which isn't good.

[Rojava Free State]

If it was up to me, these political parties wouldn't even exist. Not only are they beholden to special interests, but the tribalism has totally destroyed actual principle and led republicans to support trump, a known adulterer, former democrat, pro trans, pro gay, pro tariff, and very profane man. They violated their own principles as a party to own the libs. Now if that isn't partisanship gone wrong, idk what is.

Vote for your conscience. Not just to spite the other side

I have split ticket in the past. But as of late there has not been a single Republican I feel I could vote for.

I'm finding it harder and harder to vote for anyone. I've become disgusted with how far we fell as a nation and how much we've given up on trying to be better. It's clear to me that Americans are embracing their worst aspects. If trump is america's worst behavior in human form, I don't see how the democrats will fix the problem, with biden calling people fat, some of bernie's people threatening union members, and Bloomberg making sexist and degrading remarks about women in his life. It's not even just about the policies. The people themselves are becoming more aggressive and disrespectful

[San Lumen]

I have split ticket in the past. But as of late there has not been a single Republican I feel I could vote for.

I'm finding it harder and harder to vote for anyone. I've become disgusted with how far we fell as a nation and how much we've given up on trying to be better. It's clear to me that Americans are embracing their worst aspects. If trump is america's worst behavior in human form, I don't see how the democrats will fix the problem, with biden calling people fat, some of bernie's people threatening union members, and Bloomberg making sexist and degrading remarks about women in his life. It's not even just about the policies. The people themselves are becoming more aggressive and disrespectful

Here's a radical idea why dont you run yourself if you dont like whose running. Start with municipal or county office or maybe state legislature. Every elected official starts somewhere. They dont fall from the sky from another reality

[Rojava Free State]

Liberals need to learn how to go low in the right way. You can't ignore trump while he bashes you and degrades you but you also can't turn around and go "most Americans are racist assholes and that is the only reason trump won." A great way to take trump on would be to backhand insult him at the debate like "I wanna talk really briefly about our men and women in uniform, who trump understands on account of his bravery and valor shown in Vietnam...oh wait I forgot, you didn't fight that war or any others. But I'm sure your bone spurs were real and you didn't make them up like how you lie about everything else" or "Mr Trump cares A lot about the military. The only thing he loves more is his hair, which is why he didn't visit the graves of dead soldiers in France to pay his respects, because it was raining."

Instead of trying to one-up the other on insults, a far better idea is to push for actual policies. A return to transformative politics is where it's at. Politics as a reality TV-show is retarded and distracts from actually changing the world for the better.

Also, Trump draft-dodging for Vietnam is one of the good things he did. Don't @ me.

The issue isn't that he dodged the draft. It's that he's content sending others to die but not willing to fight the fight himself. Look what he has our troops doing in Syria right now. And before you say "what about obama," please keep in mind I don't look back at him with rose colored glasses.

I'm not saying the election should come down to insults alone, but if you're onstage with trump and trump says "you're so low energy. You're the sperm your mom should've swallowed," then you can't just pretend he's not there and keep talking

If trump attacks, you gotta counterattack

[Sougra]

Im a moderate Democrat. According to you because I don't like Sanders I support the status quo and have no place in the party?

If it was up to me, these political parties wouldn't even exist. Not only are they beholden to special interests, but the tribalism has totally destroyed actual principle and led republicans to support trump, a known adulterer, former democrat, pro trans, pro gay, pro tariff, and very profane man. They violated their own principles as a party to own the libs. Now if that isn't partisanship gone wrong, idk what is.

Vote for your conscience. Not just to spite the other side

I'd argue against the pro-gay and pro-trans parts due to the policies they're enacting regarding the LGBT+ community and that Pence is his VP, but I won't deny that Trump publicly states that he supports those groups.

[United States of Devonta]

Bill Maher had a good quote on that:

"When they go low we go high" is a good applause line, but wake up and smell the shit. We've used that strategy and lost the senate, house, and presidency. The applause line should be "when they go low, we kick them in the NUTS!" They send a journalist to the hospital, we send a lobbyist to the morgue.

Jesus christ, I was nodding in approval till I saw that last sentence. Man, and you all wonder why I think American ulster is gonna be a thing

He goes on to say metaphorically, he's a damn comedian lmao

It's in reference to a reporter being assaulted by a Republican, dude literally body slammed him.

[Shrillland]

I have split ticket in the past. But as of late there has not been a single Republican I feel I could vote for.

I'm finding it harder and harder to vote for anyone. I've become disgusted with how far we fell as a nation and how much we've given up on trying to be better. It's clear to me that Americans are embracing their worst aspects. If trump is america's worst behavior in human form, I don't see how the democrats will fix the problem, with biden calling people fat, some of bernie's people threatening union members, and Bloomberg making sexist and degrading remarks about women in his life. It's not even just about the policies. The people themselves are becoming more aggressive and disrespectful

I look to the future and see no comfort in it myself, I've been something of a doomsayer too, partially because I live surrounded by Trump supporters(in my town, not my family), and I've seen Trump flags and Straight Pride Flags on a lot of houses around. It's quite depressing to be honest.

[San Lumen]

If it was up to me, these political parties wouldn't even exist. Not only are they beholden to special interests, but the tribalism has totally destroyed actual principle and led republicans to support trump, a known adulterer, former democrat, pro trans, pro gay, pro tariff, and very profane man. They violated their own principles as a party to own the libs. Now if that isn't partisanship gone wrong, idk what is.

Vote for your conscience. Not just to spite the other side

I'd argue against the pro-gay and pro-trans parts due to the policies they're enacting regarding the LGBT+ community and that Pence is his VP, but I won't deny that Trump publicly states that he supports those groups.

His policies say otherwise therefore his talk is empty

[Rojava Free State]

If it was up to me, these political parties wouldn't even exist. Not only are they beholden to special interests, but the tribalism has totally destroyed actual principle and led republicans to support trump, a known adulterer, former democrat, pro trans, pro gay, pro tariff, and very profane man. They violated their own principles as a party to own the libs. Now if that isn't partisanship gone wrong, idk what is.

Vote for your conscience. Not just to spite the other side

I'd argue against the pro-gay and pro-trans parts due to the policies they're enacting regarding the LGBT+ community and that Pence is his VP, but I won't deny that Trump publicly states that he supports those groups.

Don't be surprised if Trump suddenly changes course on certain issues once he's re-elected and doesn't need to pander anymore. I'm not saying that would be better, because trump is a real asshole and not just an asshole to gain support. I already told my dad to be ready for trump.to say something like "honestly Christianity is overrated. Everyone keeps talking about Jesus but you should be talking about me" if he gets a second term. The need to be a faker will be gone and I guarantee you that the only thing trump will continue is his war on the media and critics, and his desire to crush opposition by all means, legal and illegal.

[San Lumen]

I'd argue against the pro-gay and pro-trans parts due to the policies they're enacting regarding the LGBT+ community and that Pence is his VP, but I won't deny that Trump publicly states that he supports those groups.

Don't be surprised if Trump suddenly changes course on certain issues once he's re-elected and doesn't need to pander anymore. I'm not saying that would be better, because trump is a real asshole and not just an asshole to gain support. I already told my dad to be ready for trump.to say something like "honestly Christianity is overrated. Everyone keeps talking about Jesus but you should be talking about me" if he gets a second term. The need to be a faker will be gone and I guarantee you that the only thing trump will continue is his war on the media and critics, and his desire to crush opposition by all means, legal and illegal.

Hopefully he doesnt get a second term

[Duvniask]

Politics is power, and the Republicans know this far better than the Democrats. The Republicans don't give a shit about principles when it comes to playing politics, they use whatever means necessary to get their way. Playing nice and bending over isn't going to accomplish anything. They'll vote against anything purely because it comes from a Democrat. The Obama presidency is proof enough of this. It's time the Democrats went their own way.

The people who support Sanders are among those with most reason to be angry at the system, so it's fucking rich that moderate elites who support the status quo sit and cry about Sanders supporters being mean to them online. They rightfully elicit no sympathy from people whose livelihoods are at stake. Boo-hoo.

Im a moderate Democrat. According to you because I don't like Sanders I support the status quo and have no place in the party?

I think you have things in the wrong order. Being a moderate Democrat pretty much ipso facto means you support the status quo and don't want any substantial change. The US has a stupid two-party system, with one mostly center-right party and another edging closer to the far-right; it needs to be put down. It won't be done by the Democratic establishment, and it certainly won't be done by the Republicans. Transforming the most viable of the two, the Democratic party, into an actual left-leaning alternative to GOP is the way to go about it. I don't lament the fact that your sort are being challenged, at all.

[Fitepoia]

If it was up to me, these political parties wouldn't even exist. Not only are they beholden to special interests, but the tribalism has totally destroyed actual principle and led republicans to support trump, a known adulterer, former democrat, pro trans, pro gay, pro tariff, and very profane man. They violated their own principles as a party to own the libs. Now if that isn't partisanship gone wrong, idk what is.

Vote for your conscience. Not just to spite the other side

I'd argue against the pro-gay and pro-trans parts due to the policies they're enacting regarding the LGBT+ community and that Pence is his VP, but I won't deny that Trump publicly states that he supports those groups.

While I am anti-war, banning trans people from the military is discrimination, pure and simple. But in general, it is hard to figure out what Trump's fault and what is the fault of his administration. Either way, I want him and his administration out.

[Rojava Free State]

I'd argue against the pro-gay and pro-trans parts due to the policies they're enacting regarding the LGBT+ community and that Pence is his VP, but I won't deny that Trump publicly states that he supports those groups.

His policies say otherwise therefore his talk is empty

The pro gay thing wasn't the best example. Here's a better one. The trump wall and space force both will cost millions of dollars and yet republicans are happy to sign on. Republicans were the same party who for years complained about wasteful spending and yet that's exactly what they wanna do now that trump is president. They've compromised their principles

[San Lumen]

Im a moderate Democrat. According to you because I don't like Sanders I support the status quo and have no place in the party?

I think you have things in the wrong order. Being a moderate Democrat pretty much ipso facto means you support the status quo and don't want any substantial change. The US has a stupid two-party system, with one mostly center-right party and another edging closer to the far-right; it needs to be put down. It won't be done by the DNC establishment, and it certainly won't be done by the Republicans. Transforming the most viable of the two, the Democratic party, into an actual left-leaning alternative to GOP is the way to go about it. I don't lament the fact that your sort are being challenged, at all.

So what your saying is unless your far left you have no place in the party? I do want substantial change but Sanders and his cult following's way isn't how you achieve it.

[Sougra]

Politics is power, and the Republicans know this far better than the Democrats. The Republicans don't give a shit about principles when it comes to playing politics, they use whatever means necessary to get their way. Playing nice and bending over isn't going to accomplish anything. They'll vote against anything purely because it comes from a Democrat. The Obama presidency is proof enough of this. It's time the Democrats went their own way.

The people who support Sanders are among those with most reason to be angry at the system, so it's fucking rich that moderate elites who support the status quo sit and cry about Sanders supporters being mean to them online. They rightfully elicit no sympathy from people whose livelihoods are at stake. Boo-hoo.

Im a moderate Democrat. According to you because I don't like Sanders I support the status quo and have no place in the party?

Well, from someone who can be labelled pretty much anything except socially conservative (although that depends on who you ask), as a moderate Dem, you definitely have a place within the party. The Sanders people would argue that you aren't a part of the movement. And you're definitely supporting the status quo in general as far as I've seen through your post history. Status quo doesn't mean no change, it just means that which is changed, is heavily expected to be at that extent.

You do have issues against the electoral college and are very strong with climate change, but I don't see your general world view itself as being something other than status quo, as even those opinions are largely held among people who vote Democrat.

[Fitepoia]

Im a moderate Democrat. According to you because I don't like Sanders I support the status quo and have no place in the party?

I think you have things in the wrong order. Being a moderate Democrat pretty much ipso facto means you support the status quo and don't want any substantial change. The US has a stupid two-party system, with one mostly center-right party and another edging closer to the far-right; it needs to be put down. It won't be done by the Democratic establishment, and it certainly won't be done by the Republicans. Transforming the most viable of the two, the Democratic party, into an actual left-leaning alternative to GOP is the way to go about it. I don't lament the fact that your sort are being challenged, at all.

I don't even know how much of it is a genuine belief in centrist and center-right ideology and how much of it is the idea that anything meaningfully left-leaning will lose votes. The Republican Party is going full national conservative and gaining a lot of neofascist votes, but the people pushing the Democratic Party towards social democracy and democratic socialism are the extremists. Democrats have to be moderate and left-leaning voters have to suck it up because who else are we going to vote for, but as long as Republicans don't advocate for overthrowing liberal democracy, they can go as far to the right as they want.

[Ifreann]

I'm pretty sure I'm paraphrasing something, but I can't remember exactly what.

That's what you get for reading too much. Head full of knowledge but no bibliography.

Let this be a lesson to us all. Never read.

---

Culinary Union: "We don't support Medicare For All because we don't want our members to give up the healthcare benefits we've secured for them"
Corrian: "Bernie Bros cyberbullied this union and that's why they won't endorse Sanders"

Yeah, no, I hate the Bernie Bro term for one, and two, its because they literally were cyber bullying. Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with something else they decided to send their attack on, but it happened.

The union very explicitly doesn't want Medicare For All. Sanders does want that, it's his headline policy.

Do you really think that that doesn't matter? That the union would endorse Sanders, even though they oppose his policies, if only his supporters weren't so mean online? Come on.

---

Yeah, no, I hate the Bernie Bro term for one, and two, its because they literally were cyber bullying. Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with something else they decided to send their attack on, but it happened.

This is why I cannot support him and hope he doesn’t get the nomination. His supporters act like anyone who doesn’t support him is their enemy and supports the status quo and the establishment

You act like Sanders supporters are going to hand the nation to Trump out of spite. You have been acting that way for almost four years. If they turn around and tell you to fuck off, that's them being sick of your shit, and who can blame them.

---

Where are the receipts? I want the receipts!

Go to mayor Pete’s Facebook page. The culinary union in Nevada Said they wouldn’t be in endorsing anyone in part due to harassment from the Sanders crowd

The Culinary Union in Nevada opposes Medicare For All.

[Duvniask]

I think you have things in the wrong order. Being a moderate Democrat pretty much ipso facto means you support the status quo and don't want any substantial change. The US has a stupid two-party system, with one mostly center-right party and another edging closer to the far-right; it needs to be put down. It won't be done by the DNC establishment, and it certainly won't be done by the Republicans. Transforming the most viable of the two, the Democratic party, into an actual left-leaning alternative to GOP is the way to go about it. I don't lament the fact that your sort are being challenged, at all.

So what your saying is unless your far left you have no place in the party? I do want substantial change but Sanders and his cult following's way isn't how you achieve it.

What I am saying is that the Democratic Party is an abomination that shouldn't exist in the first place. Breaking free from the complete dominance of right-wing politics in America means the Democratic Party must revolutionize or be destroyed. And before you moan about how this divisiveness will cause Trump to win again, I can't think of a better way of guaranteeing his win than by nominating another empty corporate suit who has no principles to speak of (like Pete Buttigieg, for instance).

I don't recall mentioning anything about a requirement that you be far-left. Sanders isn't far-left, at least not in any of his rhetoric. If you think he is, you don't know a far-leftist when you see one. It's simply a matter of American politics being shifted more right than a man who's just had his right leg taken off.

[Jerzylvania]

I'm finding it harder and harder to vote for anyone. I've become disgusted with how far we fell as a nation and how much we've given up on trying to be better. It's clear to me that Americans are embracing their worst aspects. If trump is america's worst behavior in human form, I don't see how the democrats will fix the problem, with biden calling people fat, some of bernie's people threatening union members, and Bloomberg making sexist and degrading remarks about women in his life. It's not even just about the policies. The people themselves are becoming more aggressive and disrespectful

I look to the future and see no comfort in it myself, I've been something of a doomsayer too, partially because I live surrounded by Trump supporters(in my town, not my family), and I've seen Trump flags and Straight Pride Flags on a lot of houses around. It's quite depressing to be honest.

Apparently I am in the same neighborhood. That's why I agree with Bernie when he says he'll support the Dem nominee no matter who it is. Screw these hateful Trump clowns.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Im a moderate Democrat. According to you because I don't like Sanders I support the status quo and have no place in the party?

If it was up to me, these political parties wouldn't even exist. Not only are they beholden to special interests, but the tribalism has totally destroyed actual principle and led republicans to support trump, a known adulterer, former democrat, pro trans, pro gay, pro tariff, and very profane man. They violated their own principles as a party to own the libs. Now if that isn't partisanship gone wrong, idk what is.

Vote for your conscience. Not just to spite the other side

He is the least terrible of two bad options, not a good option.

[Loben The 2nd]

His policies say otherwise therefore his talk is empty

The pro gay thing wasn't the best example. Here's a better one. The trump wall and space force both will cost millions of dollars and yet republicans are happy to sign on. Republicans were the same party who for years complained about wasteful spending and yet that's exactly what they wanna do now that trump is president. They've compromised their principles

ngl having a space force is p neato.