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by Shrillland » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:15 pm
by A Rossy » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:17 pm
by Philjia » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:35 am
A Rossy wrote:The War of Independence was never about any political position, Socialists, Conservatives, Monarchists or just down right republicans all fought side by side. All the young lads who were in the RA were more just thinking about Irish liberation. Political divisions sadly came from the civil war. Sinn Fein only came far left socialists in around the late 20s, all the non socialists left with Dev in 1925. However 1916 was different, it was a small rising of only a few thousand, pretty much all the martyrs (god rest their souls) were Socialists. Funny how you see Far right talking about them.
FF and FG are definitely different, the people who say there all the same are looking at the base policies and not the history or the party itself. Especially on the issue of the North. But again this all goes back to the civil war, FF were and still are the Anti-Treaty, Republican party, were as FG were obviously the party of the Free State. Look at the history, as soon as FF gained power they declared Ireland a republic and left the commonwealth, they didn't help the Brits during WW2 and declared the nation forever neutral, they also set up a pension scheme for member of the IRA during the War of Independence. Even in the basics like last names, the majority of FG TDs surnames have been Anglo-Norman and the majority of FF TDs surnames have been Gaelic.
Nemesis the Warlock wrote:I am the Nemesis, I am the Warlock, I am the shape of things to come, the Lord of the Flies, holder of the Sword Sinister, the Death Bringer, I am the one who waits on the edge of your dreams, I am all these things and many more
by Eglaecia » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:44 am
Black and Tans wrote:A Rossy wrote:The War of Independence was never about any political position, Socialists, Conservatives, Monarchists or just down right republicans all fought side by side. All the young lads who were in the RA were more just thinking about Irish liberation. Political divisions sadly came from the civil war. Sinn Fein only came far left socialists in around the late 20s, all the non socialists left with Dev in 1925. However 1916 was different, it was a small rising of only a few thousand, pretty much all the martyrs (god rest their souls) were Socialists. Funny how you see Far right talking about them.
They were deluded. Ireland is an artifical nation like Ukraine or Belarus. It has no history prior to 1918, nor an own culture nor a real language. Thoose rebels were terrorist and the british government had every right to crush them.
by Ifreann » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:03 am
by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:36 pm
by Shrillland » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:37 pm
by Outer Sparta » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:39 pm
Shrillland wrote:Well, there's the Social Democrats, Labour, Sinn Fein, take your pick.
by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:51 pm
Shrillland wrote:Well, there's the Social Democrats, Labour, Sinn Fein, take your pick.
by Shrillland » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:57 pm
by Outer Sparta » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:58 pm
by Shrillland » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:40 pm
by Shrillland » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:50 am
by Socialist Mercanda » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:51 pm
by Socialist Mercanda » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:57 pm
by Novus America » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:08 pm
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Is there a party with the Irish republicanism and social democracy idiology ?
by Bananaistan » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:26 pm
Magnum Exitium wrote:Well, normally I'd support the National Party, as they are closer to my trashy right-wing system, but as they're not putting out many candidates, I'd say that Fianna Fail is the way to go. Their commitment to the Irish language is pretty admirable. I don't want to see the language of my ancestors die off, even if it won't affect me over here in America. I think my only issue would be with their economic interventionism, but nothing's perfect, and getting Leo out is the way to go.
A Rossy wrote:The War of Independence was never about any political position, Socialists, Conservatives, Monarchists or just down right republicans all fought side by side. All the young lads who were in the RA were more just thinking about Irish liberation. Political divisions sadly came from the civil war. Sinn Fein only came far left socialists in around the late 20s, all the non socialists left with Dev in 1925. However 1916 was different, it was a small rising of only a few thousand, pretty much all the martyrs (god rest their souls) were Socialists. Funny how you see Far right talking about them.
FF and FG are definitely different, the people who say there all the same are looking at the base policies and not the history or the party itself. Especially on the issue of the North. But again this all goes back to the civil war, FF were and still are the Anti-Treaty, Republican party, were as FG were obviously the party of the Free State. Look at the history, as soon as FF gained power they declared Ireland a republic and left the commonwealth, they didn't help the Brits during WW2 and declared the nation forever neutral, they also set up a pension scheme for member of the IRA during the War of Independence. Even in the basics like last names, the majority of FG TDs surnames have been Anglo-Norman and the majority of FF TDs surnames have been Gaelic.
Greater Carloso wrote:Philjia wrote:In 1974 the Provisional IRA killed 21 innocent civilians in the English city of Birmingham with time bombs placed in pubs. 182 more were injured. Six innocent Irishmen were wrongfully convicted of carrying out the attack and spent 16 years in prison. The legacy of the troubles is a pile of innocent bodies built by violent sectarianism like that which motivated the IRA. More than half the people killed in the Troubles were civilians who didn't do anything except be born in the wrong place and sometimes believe in the wrong thing. The IRA, the Ulster Loyalists, and the British government forces were complicit in acts of shocking brutality that have left lasting, perhaps incurable scars on the face of Northern Ireland. Gerry Adams, the previous leader of SF, always denied being in the RA, and there was insufficient evidence to convict him, and I don't think a single person in the whole of the UK believed him in the slightest. When stupid Americans shout "up the RA!", this is what they're endorsing, and the same fucking sectarianism which has blighted Northern Irish politics for longer than I've been alive.
This, to be honest. The barbarism of the so-called 'IRA' has been romanticised amongst a lot of younger people here in Ireland and among Irish Americans who really don't have a great understanding of Irish history or politics. The IRA in the north were nothing but far-left terrorists and glorified drug barons/bank robbers, same with the Unionist paramilitary butchers (UDF/UDR/UVF) who massacred 34 Irish people with the assistance of the British regime in the Dublin-Monaghan bombings, along with many other Catholics. Arlene Fosters' father was severely injured in a shooting and she herself was almost killed in a bomb attack on a bus by the IRA. Sinn Fein/IRA have done nothing to bring the Reunification of Ireland closer, only caused more division, and ultimately the GFA has only painted over the cracks that still exist. They make a mockery of Irish republicanism.
There is also great irony in the fact that Sinn Fein allowed Westminister to impose English-made law legalising gay marraige and abortion in the North, without so much as a whimper of dissent. They are not Irish nationalists.
Bear Stearns wrote:I have distant Irish ancestry so allow me to speak authoritatively on Irish politics and aggressively chime in on issues.
Socialist Mercanda wrote:The REDC poll is due tonight - should be interesting. I wonder how will SF fare, since in the last REDC poll in November it only polled in at 11 points. And interesting to see if the Fine Gael nosedive we saw in the IpsosMRBI and the B&A poll will be replicated as well - and who's to gain.
I would favour a FF-led coalition, and I plan to vote FF 1, 2, and 3 in my constituency (Kerry) in the order of Brassil-Foley-Moriarty. I would've considered throwing a No. 4 at perhaps Labour, but seeing as they aren't running any candidates in Kerry this time round (for this first time in 70 or 80 odd years I believe), I'll be stopping at Norma Numero Dos.
by Ifreann » Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:15 pm
Bananaistan wrote:Magnum Exitium wrote:Well, normally I'd support the National Party, as they are closer to my trashy right-wing system, but as they're not putting out many candidates, I'd say that Fianna Fail is the way to go. Their commitment to the Irish language is pretty admirable. I don't want to see the language of my ancestors die off, even if it won't affect me over here in America. I think my only issue would be with their economic interventionism, but nothing's perfect, and getting Leo out is the way to go.
Thankfully the lunatic right wing fringe has no hope of ever taking off in Ireland.
by Major-Tom » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:26 pm
by Socialist Mercanda » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:55 am
Bananaistan wrote:Socialist Mercanda wrote:The REDC poll is due tonight - should be interesting. I wonder how will SF fare, since in the last REDC poll in November it only polled in at 11 points. And interesting to see if the Fine Gael nosedive we saw in the IpsosMRBI and the B&A poll will be replicated as well - and who's to gain.
I would favour a FF-led coalition, and I plan to vote FF 1, 2, and 3 in my constituency (Kerry) in the order of Brassil-Foley-Moriarty. I would've considered throwing a No. 4 at perhaps Labour, but seeing as they aren't running any candidates in Kerry this time round (for this first time in 70 or 80 odd years I believe), I'll be stopping at Norma Numero Dos.
Details of that poll just out now:
FG 23% (-7)
FF 26% (+2)
SF 19% (+8)
Change is versus the last RedC/Business Post poll in November. In the Irish Times one last week, SF were up 7% versus October. While SF’s vote is always a few percent behind their polls, the trend is encouraging. Here’s hoping for an actual FF/FG government and we can finally move into the 20th century with a normal centre-right v centre-left divide in our politics.
Incidentally, in North Kildare, I’ll be voting Labour no 1, Soc Dem no 2, Sf, 3, Green 4, and the two FGers 5 & 6. I’ll leave it there rather than giving a preference to the ruiners in FF, the Trots in the Socialist Workers Party front organisation (People Before Profit) or bible bashers like Renua.
Major-Tom wrote:Not Irish, but from what I can recall, Fine Gael and Fianna Fail have had nearly identical economic programs since the 90s, and their only major difference is one is "slightly more centrist and slightly more socially conservative."
I mean, really, it's kinda sad to see. I don't care much for the whole debate over a "United Ireland" since it doesn't affect me, but I think Sinn Fein still looks the most palatable on a purely economic basis, not a cultural or pseudo nationalistic one.
by Bananaistan » Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:09 am
Socialist Mercanda wrote:Ah now, both the FF TDs in North Kildare are elected after the crash To be quite honest, I don’t agree in any shape or form with the argument that FF crashed the economy (although as a FF supporter, I am biased hehe). Every major party enabled the high spending low taxation high borrowing bonanza, and Fine Gael even pledged for even higher spending and even lower taxation! So, I think no matter who was in charge at the time, the economy and the country’s finances were going to implode - and perhaps we should be thankful it was Ahern, not Kenny, in charge at the time, or it could’ve been a lot worse.
by Marxist Germany » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:07 pm
by Philjia » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:10 pm
Marxist Germany wrote:The polls are suggesting that Fianna Fail are going to win. This is great as Fine Gael has shown how much of a failure they are by causing the worst housing crisis in our history, they also support abortion and high spending, both of which are policies I oppose so I am happy to see them lose. I am however disappointed by the very poor results Renua is getting.
Nemesis the Warlock wrote:I am the Nemesis, I am the Warlock, I am the shape of things to come, the Lord of the Flies, holder of the Sword Sinister, the Death Bringer, I am the one who waits on the edge of your dreams, I am all these things and many more
by Marxist Germany » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:58 pm
Philjia wrote:Marxist Germany wrote:The polls are suggesting that Fianna Fail are going to win. This is great as Fine Gael has shown how much of a failure they are by causing the worst housing crisis in our history, they also support abortion and high spending, both of which are policies I oppose so I am happy to see them lose. I am however disappointed by the very poor results Renua is getting.
1. Fianna Fail helped them do it
2. Fianna Fail's policies aren't meaningfully distinct from Fine Gael so the problems will persist
by Bananaistan » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:14 pm
Marxist Germany wrote:Philjia wrote:1. Fianna Fail helped them do it
2. Fianna Fail's policies aren't meaningfully distinct from Fine Gael so the problems will persist
Hence why I said i was disappointed to see Renua poll so low, they are the right wing party that Ireland needs as Fianna Fail is not greatly different from FG, however, Fianna Fail is different enough to make them slightly better than FG.
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