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by Benevolent Thomas » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:05 pm
Ballotonia wrote:Personally, I think there's something seriously wrong with a game if it willfully allows the destruction of longtime player communities in favor of kids whose sole purpose is to enjoy ruining the game for others.
by The Blaatschapen » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:15 am
Vaculatestar64 wrote:Guy wrote:Thankfully, whether or not you are allowed back into NationStates regions isn't quite the same thing as reintegration into society following completion of a prison sentence. NS communities have to put the safety of their users first, and any other considerations are secondary to that. We aren't trained to mitigate the risk that people who have engaged in misconduct in the past might pose. (And, of course, the ability to participate in NS isn't comparable to not being incarcerated, being able to get a job and housing and integrate into society, etc.)
Rather than complain about the treatment of so-called 'blacklisted' players, if any of you truly desire a second chance, you would have to convince someone that any risks that you pose have been substantially, if not wholly, mitigated. You could do this by showing some insight into the reasons for which you are banned, rather than simply complain about it. Address the harm that you have caused in the past, show some understanding of it and contrition for it, and perhaps even try to make amends where possible.
Until then, all that I get from this 'whitelisting' campaign are people upset that their actions have consequences for themselves, without understanding that it's the consequences to others from their actions that have landed them where they are.
Incredible, it's almost as if integrating back into NationStates is simpler than reintegrating back into society after incarceration. While NationStates is similar to society in that people are willing to stab literally ANYONE in the back to get ahead, there are many more differences than there ever are similarities, wouldn't you agree?
by WayNeacTia » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:16 am
Vaculatestar64 wrote:Amazing, what if our prison system had that same attitude.
Benevolent Thomas wrote:Maybe we should stop interacting with them, here, in this forum.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac
wait
by Twins of Hearts » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:42 am
The Church of Satan wrote:So now you're painting it as a power play? There's no low you won't go, is there? Truly shameful.
Benevolent Thomas wrote:Maybe we should stop interacting with them, here, in this forum.
Guy wrote:Thankfully, whether or not you are allowed back into NationStates regions isn't quite the same thing as reintegration into society following completion of a prison sentence. NS communities have to put the safety of their users first, and any other considerations are secondary to that. We aren't trained to mitigate the risk that people who have engaged in misconduct in the past might pose. (And, of course, the ability to participate in NS isn't comparable to not being incarcerated, being able to get a job and housing and integrate into society, etc.)
Rather than complain about the treatment of so-called 'blacklisted' players, if any of you truly desire a second chance, you would have to convince someone that any risks that you pose have been substantially, if not wholly, mitigated. You could do this by showing some insight into the reasons for which you are banned, rather than simply complain about it. Address the harm that you have caused in the past, show some understanding of it and contrition for it, and perhaps even try to make amends where possible.
Until then, all that I get from this 'whitelisting' campaign are people upset that their actions have consequences for themselves, without understanding that it's the consequences to others from their actions that have landed them where they are.
Borovan entered the region as he wrote:Ooc: God a telegram that's not even a WA proposal this was annoying most don't want to even see this or have no idea what it's talking about
the ambassador starts thinking of blocking all telegram preferences and starts ripping whatever papers are in front of him
by Vaculatestar64 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:05 pm
Wayneactia wrote:Vaculatestar64 wrote:Amazing, what if our prison system had that same attitude.
Most states do. It is called Disfranchisement. Think of being blacklisted as that.Benevolent Thomas wrote:Maybe we should stop interacting with them, here, in this forum.
That is the dream isn't it?
by Cormactopia Prime » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:37 pm
Benevolent Thomas wrote:Maybe we should stop interacting with them, here, in this forum.
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:58 pm
Syberis wrote:There's no removing from the blacklist because there's no formal blacklist. There's no great stone tablet somewhere with names carved into it. Some regions might have their own lists, some orgs might share shitty behavior with other people, but pretending there's some cabal distributing some blacklist newsletter is just kinda dumb.
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Lord Dominator » Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:02 pm
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Whitelist? More like shite list.Syberis wrote:There's no removing from the blacklist because there's no formal blacklist. There's no great stone tablet somewhere with names carved into it. Some regions might have their own lists, some orgs might share shitty behavior with other people, but pretending there's some cabal distributing some blacklist newsletter is just kinda dumb.
Shhh, if we're quiet then they might go ahead and make the list for us.
by The Church of Satan » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:52 pm
by WayNeacTia » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:02 pm
The Church of Satan wrote:Your telegram, Twins, neglected to mention the seriousness of the awful things blacklisted players have done. I know it's very convenient for you, because if they knew, all those players that expressed support would turn on you immediately. You've done a good job of reeling them in with a lie, an illusion that you sell to them while pointing the gun at every decent region in NationStates.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac
wait
by Custadia » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:23 pm
by General Knot » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:40 pm
by Wabbitslayah » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:52 pm
Custadia wrote:
It'd be great if that was the only word needed to sum up what we're talking about here but it's not even close. We're not just talking about illegal scripts used to cheat at R/D, we're talking about people being harassed, exploited, doxxed and threatened. One spoils the game, the other hurts real people.
by WayNeacTia » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:58 pm
Wabbitslayah wrote:Custadia wrote:
It'd be great if that was the only word needed to sum up what we're talking about here but it's not even close. We're not just talking about illegal scripts used to cheat at R/D, we're talking about people being harassed, exploited, doxxed and threatened. One spoils the game, the other hurts real people.
This^. Serial cheating/rulebreaking or forum/discord/offsite destruction is bad and even one off events need consequences. Those things are on the lighter side (with exceptions) of what puts you on a blacklist (formal or otherwise) regardless of temporary or permanent placement.
The other things are the heavy side.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac
wait
by Lord Dominator » Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:09 pm
Wayneactia wrote:Wabbitslayah wrote:This^. Serial cheating/rulebreaking or forum/discord/offsite destruction is bad and even one off events need consequences. Those things are on the lighter side (with exceptions) of what puts you on a blacklist (formal or otherwise) regardless of temporary or permanent placement.
The other things are the heavy side.
Afraid I don't keep up with offsite and discord drama. I try to contain my Nationstates dealings to the actual game.
by Tinhampton » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:20 am
South Reinkalistan wrote:OOC: Hmmm... a tag:WA telegram? These folks are really going all-out, huh?
Then again, it's probably a move out of desperation and lack of support
by Twins of Hearts » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:25 am
Tinhampton wrote:South Reinkalistan wrote:OOC: Hmmm... a tag:WA telegram? These folks are really going all-out, huh?
Then again, it's probably a move out of desperation and lack of support
And now a highly-similar tag:wa telegraph from the same nation, also promoting the White List Campaign, has been sent out (~5mins ago)... sigh!
by Kavagrad » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:41 am
by South Reinkalistan » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:58 am
by Twins of Hearts » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:59 am
Kavagrad wrote:
The word being that you're willing to spend money to try and advocate for the most awful people in GP, coddling them as if they've done nothing wrong and trying to force GP to accept them back into communities that don't want them. It's a waste of time, and frankly, a poor reflection on your judgement.
by Makdon » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:31 am
Twins of Hearts wrote:I am not advocating manipulation or force. You obviously are used to the blacklist and the nations that seem to enjoy it. My dispatch is all about conflict resolution. About solving the problems, not just labelling people and bullying them into silence.
If you dont want someone in your region, then by all means use the game mechanics to kick ban them, or file a GHR if its a “real” rules violation.
by Entendre Cordial » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:40 pm
by The Church of Satan » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:20 pm
by Kavagrad » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:30 pm
Twins of Hearts wrote:Kavagrad wrote:The word being that you're willing to spend money to try and advocate for the most awful people in GP, coddling them as if they've done nothing wrong and trying to force GP to accept them back into communities that don't want them. It's a waste of time, and frankly, a poor reflection on your judgement.
I am not advocating manipulation or force. You obviously are used to the blacklist and the nations that seem to enjoy it. My dispatch is all about conflict resolution. About solving the problems, not just labelling people and bullying them into silence.
If you dont want someone in your region, then by all means use the game mechanics to kick ban them, or file a GHR if its a “real” rules violation.
by Twins of Hearts » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:46 pm
Entendre Cordial wrote:From my understanding of the reasons why blacklisted players are blacklisted, treating it as fodder for "conflict resolution" between two good-faith parties is... well, let's return to the "this is just like prison!!!!!1!!11!!1" analogy for a second. Treating it as an opportunity for conflict resolution is like asking a rape victim to attend conflict resolution counseling with his or her rapist. The kindest thing you can say about it is that it's astonishingly tone-deaf and naive. More accurate assessments are also much harsher.
Also, stop spamming my WA's telegrams.
The Church of Satan wrote:See? Cordial here understands it perfectly.
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