The Christian Discussion Thread X: Originally there were 15

[Luminesa]

*snip*

Life isn't about happyness or pleasure. Happyness and pleasure is more often than not mere salt in our meal. Or a bonus or dessert to indulge in if you will so. No, its about survival and advancement in the face of hardships and an unforgiving and uncaring universe. Only through this determination we can survive and march on. Others may find solace in their idea of an different universe and indulge in it and find happyness within. Let them be so. For us though this is not our way, for we do not remain there amongst them in slavery, for we strive forward regardless of all the odds, towards to new horizons and the stars. This is our curse, our potential, our destiny, our wyrd.

For we shall inherit the world.

Fitting this happened just before the feast of Christ the king.
Christus vincit! Christus regnat! Christus imperat!

Hail Satan, Prince of Life!

[Luminesa]

Do Jews believe in anything like a rapture?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_eschatology

Wait huh what? Jews believe in Reincarnation?

[The New California Republic]

He's not the Messiah, he's been a very naughty boy.

Bloody Judean People’s Front

People's Front of Judea is where it's at.

[Celritannia]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_eschatology

Wait huh what? Jews believe in Reincarnation?

Until the late modern era, the standard Jewish belief was that after one dies, one's immortal soul joins God in the world to come while one's body decomposes, or the soul continues in a cycle of re-incarnation into a chain of other bodies.[1]

So used to, not now.
Just goes to show how beliefs change with each generation.

[Celritannia]

So other cultures who held different gods are satanic simply because they never heard or knew of Christianity?
The majority of the world did not know what Christianity was until Imperial Expansionism.
Do you know how many great cultures were lost simply because of that ideology?

The great Roman Empire where the head of the Catholic Church sits was once Pagan, and helped develop modern Europe and the Mediterranean as we know it.

If we go really really technical, it is satanic in the sense of "the Codex Astartes Bible does not support this action".

However, this does not mean imo that they are mustache-twirling comic villain evil just because it ain't Christian. In most cases it ain't satanic in that sense.

IT isn't satanic at all though, it's just because people then did not understand different cultures.
I mean the Chinese Empire as far greater than Europe in every way prior to roughly the renaissance. They were never considered satanic simply because of the massive trade Europe got through the silk road.

[Celritannia]

Bloody Judean People’s Front

People's Front of Judea is where it's at.

I prefer the Judea Front of People.

[Celritannia]

1. Pagan idols have no place in any church. Pagans can repent and convert, but we will not bend the knee to them.
2. Inciting lay Catholics to reject heresy? Very good.
-It was forwarded to a few well known TradCath personalities like Taylor Marshall immediately after being punished
-We will not merge our devotion to the Holy Mother with a false pagan religion. Ever.

Do you think pagans are going to convert as an act of admiration for your superior culture, while you only show them disdain? I don't think that's how it works. These kind of actions don't help dialogue.
While i do agree too much liberty was allowed, as much as to have a pagan rite(or not a clearly christian one) in a church. But again, having an hissy fit about it, going to throw stuff in a river, and making a show about it, isn't a showing of civility.
Nor a showing of justice, if what they did was just, why act like thieves, why not being open about it?

You only see "Inciting lay Catholics to reject heresy", i also see "reeling people up to do other inane acts like these", inane because they don't really solve anything, they're just an outburst, while they still carry a worrying element of starting to target the objects to eventually get to the people. And also promote personal justice, shouldn't we be enouth civilized to have left that behind?

If some pieces of wood are enough to make some feel threatened in their faith, then there was something shaky in them to start with.
A piece of wood or a consecrated altar and church, who's going to win? Shouldn't the latter be the obvious answer for a christian?
It could have been a rite of purification for all we know. (which isn't much, as communication from the clergy has been lacking, which is the root problem of some feeling the need to take individual action)

-It was forwarded to a few well known TradCath personalities like Taylor Marshall immediately after being published

Yeah, how come i'm finding it curious for an american youtube opinionist to be the first reference for a vandalic act done in a church in rome?
Something doesn't add up geographically. Wouldn't be surprised if the culprit will be found to be an american too. A new kind of tourism?

-We will not merge our devotion to the Holy Mother with a false pagan religion. Ever.

You're welcome to read this article:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/henrykarl ... tradition/
There is an history of catholicism trying to save the salvageable from pagan cults it converted.

This is one instance where I can say I only half agree with the trads. If this was incorporating a traditional figure to represent life, and sanctifying it to be used as a representation of the Blessed Theotokos, as the New Eve, such a thing would have a long and storied history in the Church, such a thing would be perfectly licit.

Wanting to be optimistic and assuming that was the intention on the higher hierarchies, it's also evident the execution has been sloppy.

The only way this could be better if he had burned the idols first so they couldn’t be recovered and replaced.

In the inanity of it, there was something poetic about getting those statues to float away by the current, something like "now they're back into nature"
(while i doubt there was any symbolic meaning for the choice of tossing them into a river..)

I would alos like to add this if I may?

[Hatuey], thinking a little, asked the religious man if Spaniards went to heaven. The religious man answered yes... The chief then said without further thought that he did not want to go there but to hell so as not to be where they were and where he would not see such cruel people. This is the name and honor that God and our faith have earned.[5]

[Hanafuridake]

If we go really really technical, it is satanic in the sense of "the Codex Astartes Bible does not support this action".

However, this does not mean imo that they are mustache-twirling comic villain evil just because it ain't Christian. In most cases it ain't satanic in that sense.

IT isn't satanic at all though, it's just because people then did not understand different cultures.
I mean the Chinese Empire as far greater than Europe in every way prior to roughly the renaissance. They were never considered satanic simply because of the massive trade Europe got through the silk road.

Jesuit missionaries considered Chinese religions Satanic or pagan though. Although some tried to coopt Confucianism as a Ur-monotheistic philosophy which could be used to combat Daoists and Buddhists.

[Geneviev]

Bloody Judean People’s Front

People's Front of Judea is where it's at.

Or the Popular People's Front of Judea.

[Celritannia]

IT isn't satanic at all though, it's just because people then did not understand different cultures.
I mean the Chinese Empire as far greater than Europe in every way prior to roughly the renaissance. They were never considered satanic simply because of the massive trade Europe got through the silk road.

Jesuit missionaries considered Chinese religions Satanic or pagan though. Although some tried to coopt Confucianism as a Ur-monotheistic philosophy which could be used to combat Daoists and Buddhists.

I mean, they could have let them be, but that would be asking the Jesuit Missionaries to be decent human beings.

[Northern Davincia]

When nearly all your prophets build up to the arrival of the Messiah, and you ignore that Messiah (and execute Him), you are ignoring the prophets. It's pretty simple.

If you want to completely ignore all of the Jewish history regarding the messiah sure go ahead. In Judaism a messiah can be literally just a savior or great person that jewish people hold in high regard, like Cyrus the Great. Messiah can also refer to the end times. When the messiah comes the world will end. As the world didn’t end when Jesus appeared it’s safe to say that he’s not the king messiah.

Also Jesus was put to death because he blasphemed by claiming he was god.

The history of the word is irrelevant when you know I'm talking about the Messiah, not a messiah. The Second Coming will bring the end times. The charge of blasphemy doesn't exactly apply to the Son of God.

The message of the Old Testament is left hollow without Christ. Obviously they're not Satanists, but they are still in error.

Your choice of words concerns me.

Well then it wasn't necessarily proper to equate Judaism with Satanism.

There is an association present, as there is in everything that rejects Christ.

[Hanafuridake]

Jesuit missionaries considered Chinese religions Satanic or pagan though. Although some tried to coopt Confucianism as a Ur-monotheistic philosophy which could be used to combat Daoists and Buddhists.

I mean, they could have let them be, but that would be asking the Jesuit Missionaries to be decent human beings.

I'm not addressing that, because my sig can pretty much give a decent clue as to where I stand on that, I'm just pointing out that Europeans didn't make exceptions for China because of economic prosperity. There's not even really a dichotomy because trying to convert China was potentially financially profitable since a Christian Emperor would be more likely to communicate with Europe more.

[Diarcesia]

If we go really really technical, it is satanic in the sense of "the Codex Astartes Bible does not support this action".

However, this does not mean imo that they are mustache-twirling comic villain evil just because it ain't Christian. In most cases it ain't satanic in that sense.

IT isn't satanic at all though, it's just because people then did not understand different cultures.
I mean the Chinese Empire as far greater than Europe in every way prior to roughly the renaissance. They were never considered satanic simply because of the massive trade Europe got through the silk road.

All I'm saying is that as far as the Bible is concerned, it is Satanic. Yes, the Bible is that black-and-white on the matter. If it's keeping someone from learning and accepting the Good News, it's literally Satan. It doesn't matter if the people or culture involved is virtuous or not by human standards.

“Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.” (2 Corinthians 4:4, NLT)

[Celritannia]

I mean, they could have let them be, but that would be asking the Jesuit Missionaries to be decent human beings.

I'm not addressing that, because my sig can pretty much give a decent clue as to where I stand on that, I'm just pointing out that Europeans didn't make exceptions for China because of economic prosperity. There's not even really a dichotomy because trying to convert China was potentially financially profitable since a Christian Emperor would be more likely to communicate with Europe more.

Ahh, fair enough.

[Katganistan]

Hail Satan, Prince of Life!

*** Warned for trolling ***

[Thermodolia]

If you want to completely ignore all of the Jewish history regarding the messiah sure go ahead. In Judaism a messiah can be literally just a savior or great person that jewish people hold in high regard, like Cyrus the Great. Messiah can also refer to the end times. When the messiah comes the world will end. As the world didn’t end when Jesus appeared it’s safe to say that he’s not the king messiah.

Also Jesus was put to death because he blasphemed by claiming he was god.

Do Jews believe in anything like a rapture?

No. At the end of the world everyone will be judged accordingly. Those who fell out of god’s grace so to speak will cease to exist, their souls shattered into nothingness. While those who are in god’s grace will have eternal life. Though not much is said about what it all entails because Jews believe more in focusing on the here and now instead of what might come

[Celritannia]

IT isn't satanic at all though, it's just because people then did not understand different cultures.
I mean the Chinese Empire as far greater than Europe in every way prior to roughly the renaissance. They were never considered satanic simply because of the massive trade Europe got through the silk road.

All I'm saying is that as far as the Bible is concerned, it is Satanic. Yes, the Bible is that black-and-white on the matter. If it's keeping someone from learning and accepting the Good News, it's literally Satan. It doesn't matter if the people or culture involved is virtuous or not by human standards.

“Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.” (2 Corinthians 4:4, NLT)

Yet, this God has killed more people than Satan has.

[Thermodolia]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_eschatology

Wait huh what? Jews believe in Reincarnation?

No we don’t.

[Katganistan]

Furthermore, I never said never associate with the nonbeliever [Edited out for my own good].

Yes, well, we saw the original. While using the metaphor "pearls before swine" would not have got you into hot water, referring to unbelievers as "swine" has.

*** Warned for trolling ***

[Diarcesia]

All I'm saying is that as far as the Bible is concerned, it is Satanic. Yes, the Bible is that black-and-white on the matter. If it's keeping someone from learning and accepting the Good News, it's literally Satan. It doesn't matter if the people or culture involved is virtuous or not by human standards.

“Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.” (2 Corinthians 4:4, NLT)

Yet, this God has killed more people than Satan has.

Can't really argue against that, considering he killed 100% of all dead people today.

[Celritannia]

Yet, this God has killed more people than Satan has.

Can't really argue against that, considering he killed 100% of all dead people today.

Also this God created Satan, meaning anything Satan does is in direct response to God creating him.
This is why it is difficult to believe in all this with all the flaws in logic.

[Tarsonis]

Can you give an example
Of how the universe would abide by a law of morality?

Sure. It would certainly be the case that if the universe dealt out some sort of "the good" (let's say justice) to conscious beings, that we could say some law in the universe were good. I challenge anyone to demonstrate to me that the virtuous person gets any more a lot in life than the unvirtuous person. This would not necessarily have to be justice, but it would have to apply in most every case. After all, if something is just a guideline that only applies in certain circumstances, then it can be broken and taken advantage of, and evil is the best at taking advantage of things. If it is randomly applied, it is not a law or good at all.

Ah okay. So despite what the heretical clowns of the Prosperity Gospel (televangelists) say, Christianity doesn’t teach that the virtuous will prosper while the wicked will starve. So I don’t understand the purpose of this line of debate.

[Northern Davincia]

All I'm saying is that as far as the Bible is concerned, it is Satanic. Yes, the Bible is that black-and-white on the matter. If it's keeping someone from learning and accepting the Good News, it's literally Satan. It doesn't matter if the people or culture involved is virtuous or not by human standards.

“Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.” (2 Corinthians 4:4, NLT)

Yet, this God has killed more people than Satan has.

And justly so in every circumstance.

Yet, this God has killed more people than Satan has.

Can't really argue against that, considering he killed 100% of all dead people today.

Not quite.

Can't really argue against that, considering he killed 100% of all dead people today.

Also this God created Satan, meaning anything Satan does is in direct response to God creating him.
This is why it is difficult to believe in all this with all the flaws in logic.

It is not in direct response to God creating him. It is in response to his own pride, with Satan thinking himself greater than God.

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

Sure. It would certainly be the case that if the universe dealt out some sort of "the good" (let's say justice) to conscious beings, that we could say some law in the universe were good. I challenge anyone to demonstrate to me that the virtuous person gets any more a lot in life than the unvirtuous person. This would not necessarily have to be justice, but it would have to apply in most every case. After all, if something is just a guideline that only applies in certain circumstances, then it can be broken and taken advantage of, and evil is the best at taking advantage of things. If it is randomly applied, it is not a law or good at all.

Ah okay. So despite what the heretical clowns of the Prosperity Gospel (televangelists) say, Christianity doesn’t teach that the virtuous will prosper while the wicked will starve. So I don’t understand the purpose of this line of debate.

Correct. What evidence can you provide which does demonstrate, then, that a moral law is present in reality? How is this cosmos different from an uncaring one?

[Diarcesia]

Can't really argue against that, considering he killed 100% of all dead people today.

Also this God created Satan, meaning anything Satan does is in direct response to God creating him.
This is why it is difficult to believe in all this with all the flaws in logic.

"Also this God created Satan"

Yes

"meaning anything Satan does is in direct response to God creating him"

Also yes. God disagrees with what Satan's doing, but he permitted it to be done nonetheless. It doesn't mean he approves of it, but he made it a part of his long-term plans.