I do as well. Especially given that we are in non Muslim countries and theres no compulsion in faith. If we let Christians or pagans despite us disagreeing with their ways, then so can we with LGBT rights.
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by Jolthig » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:35 pm
by Samudera Darussalam » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:39 pm
Imbalistan wrote:I consider myself in a right mind, but I am muslim who supports LGBTQ+ rights.
by Jolthig » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:45 pm
Samudera Darussalam wrote:Imbalistan wrote:I consider myself in a right mind, but I am muslim who supports LGBTQ+ rights.
The supporting part is quite subjective, I believe. I just looking it up on the internet, and the ayah on the People of Lot has many interpretations than simply condemnation on homosexuality, but also rapes and showing inhospitability towards one's guests.
Rapes definitely harm more than simply acts of LGBTQ+, so I guess you're safe. I'm leaning towards neutral on this matter, btw.
by Al Mumtahanah » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:37 pm
by Al Mumtahanah » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:39 pm
Samudera Darussalam wrote:Imbalistan wrote:I consider myself in a right mind, but I am muslim who supports LGBTQ+ rights.
The supporting part is quite subjective, I believe. I just looking it up on the internet, and the ayah on the People of Lot has many interpretations than simply condemnation on homosexuality, but also rapes and showing inhospitability towards one's guests.
Rapes definitely harm more than simply acts of LGBTQ+, so I guess you're safe. I'm leaning towards neutral on this matter, btw.
by Jolthig » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:09 pm
by A m e n r i a » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:22 pm
by Al Mumtahanah » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:49 pm
A m e n r i a wrote:I'm sorry for potentially derailing our current topic, but does anyone have a citation on the fact that Shariah cannot be imposed on non-Muslims? Thanks.
by A m e n r i a » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:51 pm
Al Mumtahanah wrote:A m e n r i a wrote:I'm sorry for potentially derailing our current topic, but does anyone have a citation on the fact that Shariah cannot be imposed on non-Muslims? Thanks.
The Sunnah, Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) ruled the People of the Book according to their own laws, not Shariaa.
by Al Mumtahanah » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:10 pm
by Jolthig » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:13 pm
Al Mumtahanah wrote:Jolthig wrote:Which is basically a takfir of myself for being Ahmadi? There is nothing in the kalima that indicates such.
You takfir yourself. Your signature refers to your beliefs not as aqidah, but as a distinct ummah. No one would say the Athari community or the Ashari community or the Maturidi community because none is a distinct Ummah, they are each an aqidah of the UmmahA m e n r i a wrote:
Could you please be more specific? Like the exact number of the sunnah in question?
Dawud 4431
by Al Mumtahanah » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:16 pm
Jolthig wrote:Al Mumtahanah wrote:You takfir yourself. Your signature refers to your beliefs not as aqidah, but as a distinct ummah. No one would say the Athari community or the Ashari community or the Maturidi community because none is a distinct Ummah, they are each an aqidah of the Ummah
Dawud 4431
How am I takfiring myself?
No, we are part of the same Ummah as the rest of Muslims.
by Jolthig » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:18 pm
by Jolthig » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:21 pm
by Jolthig » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:23 pm
by Al Mumtahanah » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:29 pm
by Jolthig » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:30 pm
Al Mumtahanah wrote:"In the history of European conquest one person stands out as having supported the Europeans more than anyone else in recorded history. That person is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian."
http://thecult.info/blog/tag/colonialism/
by Samudera Darussalam » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:27 pm
Al Mumtahanah wrote:Samudera Darussalam wrote:The supporting part is quite subjective, I believe. I just looking it up on the internet, and the ayah on the People of Lot has many interpretations than simply condemnation on homosexuality, but also rapes and showing inhospitability towards one's guests.
Rapes definitely harm more than simply acts of LGBTQ+, so I guess you're safe. I'm leaning towards neutral on this matter, btw.
Some guy looking it up on the internet is now more knowledgeable than over a thousand years of Muslim scholarship?
The Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) referenced the sin multiple times and said it is to be treated as adultery. All of the four rightly-guided caliphs understood this.
by Jolthig » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:33 am
Samudera Darussalam wrote:Al Mumtahanah wrote:Some guy looking it up on the internet is now more knowledgeable than over a thousand years of Muslim scholarship?
The Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) referenced the sin multiple times and said it is to be treated as adultery. All of the four rightly-guided caliphs understood this.
Where did I say that it's not a sin? You start it with quoting the 'People of Lot', so I reply that it's not merely condemnation of homosexuality.
I know that I'm not a scholar, but I do try to study my religion.
Living as a Muslim in a predominantly secular, non-Muslim countries aren't that easy. You have to be more open-minded, even if it force you to somehow tolerate some haraam. Mind you, tolerate, not approve. Objectively speaking, 'rapes' do more harm than LGBTQ+.
The reason I say they are safe, is that supporting LGBTQ+ rights do no harm in our human world.
Since this is going back to the topic of Ilhan Omar, I have things that I don't agree with her views, but she is quite an achievement. She managed to overcome the difficulties to become a Muslim senator in the U.S. She may not do things right as a person or Muslim, but at least, she managed to represent her community. If the other Muslims don't agree with her, then why don't those other Muslims become that representative as well? It must be really easy to throw the word 'Munafeequn' around today?
Thank you for the response, and with this, case's closed.
by Jolthig » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:34 am
A m e n r i a wrote:I'm sorry for potentially derailing our current topic, but does anyone have a citation on the fact that Shariah cannot be imposed on non-Muslims? Thanks.
by A m e n r i a » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:10 am
by Al Mumtahanah » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:02 am
Samudera Darussalam wrote:Al Mumtahanah wrote:Some guy looking it up on the internet is now more knowledgeable than over a thousand years of Muslim scholarship?
The Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) referenced the sin multiple times and said it is to be treated as adultery. All of the four rightly-guided caliphs understood this.
Where did I say that it's not a sin? You start it with quoting the 'People of Lot', so I reply that it's not merely condemnation of homosexuality.
I know that I'm not a scholar, but I do try to study my religion.
Living as a Muslim in a predominantly secular, non-Muslim countries aren't that easy. You have to be more open-minded, even if it force you to somehow tolerate some haraam. Mind you, tolerate, not approve. Objectively speaking, 'rapes' do more harm than LGBTQ+.
The reason I say they are safe, is that supporting LGBTQ+ rights do no harm in our human world.
Since this is going back to the topic of Ilhan Omar, I have things that I don't agree with her views, but she is quite an achievement. She managed to overcome the difficulties to become a Muslim senator in the U.S. She may not do things right as a person or Muslim, but at least, she managed to represent her community. If the other Muslims don't agree with her, then why don't those other Muslims become that representative as well? It must be really easy to throw the word 'Munafeequn' around today?
Thank you for the response, and with this, case's closed.
Jolthig wrote:Al Mumtahanah wrote:"In the history of European conquest one person stands out as having supported the Europeans more than anyone else in recorded history. That person is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian."
http://thecult.info/blog/tag/colonialism/
The cult is not a scholarly source on Ahmadiyya nor am I going to waste my time reading all that nonsense. Why not provide your own arguments against Ahmadiyya?
Your inconsistencies in your arguments isn't really getting you anywhere.
by Al Mumtahanah » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:35 am
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