The Mueller Probe is Complete - Longer OP Edition

[Conserative Morality]

The Republicans have successfully spun the narrative that anything the Democrats do is going overboard.

Of course - but we can't fall into that trap. They set up the goalposts in that arena - but if we spend the majority of our energy focused on economic equity for the working class, healthcare, lower-cost education and climate change, our bread and butter issues, we'll have a better shot campaigning than if the Mueller report and the implications around it are our focus.

Q: when has that worked before?

[Prekonate]

Did anyone even read the report?

Have you?

Yes, which is why I was able to quote the context for the "I'm fucked" line. Literally 3 lines away

[Shofercia]

If it's not punishment, why are so many Democrats against it?

I don't know. You made up this whole argument, ask the voices in your head.

Not all of us have voices in our head CTOAN. Just because you do, doesn't mean that other posters do.

[Major-Tom]

Of course - but we can't fall into that trap. They set up the goalposts in that arena - but if we spend the majority of our energy focused on economic equity for the working class, healthcare, lower-cost education and climate change, our bread and butter issues, we'll have a better shot campaigning than if the Mueller report and the implications around it are our focus.

Q: when has that worked before?

Most recently, the midterms. Healthcare was a huge focus. The fervently anti-Trump crowd is already going to vote for us, and they're already energized. It's a matter of energizing left-leaning independents, swing voters, and former Trumpers in the Upper Midwest to jump on our ship.

[Gormwood]

The Republicans have successfully spun the narrative that anything the Democrats do is going overboard.

Of course - but we can't fall into that trap. They set up the goalposts in that arena - but if we spend the majority of our energy focused on economic equity for the working class, healthcare, lower-cost education and climate change, our bread and butter issues, we'll have a better shot campaigning than if the Mueller report and the implications around it are our focus.

Will that actually appeal to people underneath the Republicans screams that it's socialism and the resurrection of Stalin?

[Cannot think of a name]

I don't know. You made up this whole argument, ask the voices in your head.

Not all of us have voices in our head CTOAN. Just because you do, doesn't mean that other posters do.

Cool, we're at "I know you are, but what am I?"

We're done here, then? Cool.

[Prekonate]

lombo as we all immediately move on

[Shofercia]

Yes, and I also know that not every case that a politician wants to hear in Court, actually goes to Court. Politicians don't always get what they want, dear.

Do you even know what you're talking about at this point?

Yes, and it's quite easy to grasp for those who don't have voices in the heads.

Not all of us have voices in our head CTOAN. Just because you do, doesn't mean that other posters do.

Cool, we're at "I know you are, but what am I?"

We're done here, then? Cool.

Seems that every point I make in this thread you attempt to rebut, fail, and make it banter-ish and then pretend that we're totally done here. As Han Solo would say: "Point still stands kid"

[Bombadil]

Did anyone even read the report?

Ultimately..

They were pursuing deals in Russia when they said they weren't.
They had contacts and received information willingly but, apparently, ignorance of the law is an excuse these days.
Trump tried to interfere but various people refused to carry out his orders

If we take the word 'collusion' to mean sitting in a dark room with Putin concocting up an evil scheme then, yes, there was no collusion. By all other accounts there was willing receipt of information and assistance from a foreign power, and then orders to lie and obstruct when an investigation was out in place.

Any other president..

[Prekonate]

Did anyone even read the report?

Ultimately..

They were pursuing deals in Russia when they said they weren't.
They had contacts and received information willingly but, apparently, ignorance of the law is an excuse these days.
Trump tried to interfere but various people refused to carry out his orders

If we take the word 'collusion' to mean sitting in a dark room with Putin concocting up an evil scheme then, yes, there was no collusion. By all other accounts there was willing receipt of information and assistance from a foreign power, and then orders to lie and obstruct when an investigation was out in place.

Any other president..

Your post contains too many subtle misrepresentations to address in full. In brief, no one from the Trump campaign "received information willingly" (knowingly? your reference to contacts suggests this is what you meant) from a Russian agent. The only charge for which "ignorance of the law" is an applicable defence is a campaign finance violation, and Trump affiliates were investigated for many offences other than campaign finance violations -- for which they were also not charged.

[Bombadil]

Ultimately..

They were pursuing deals in Russia when they said they weren't.
They had contacts and received information willingly but, apparently, ignorance of the law is an excuse these days.
Trump tried to interfere but various people refused to carry out his orders

If we take the word 'collusion' to mean sitting in a dark room with Putin concocting up an evil scheme then, yes, there was no collusion. By all other accounts there was willing receipt of information and assistance from a foreign power, and then orders to lie and obstruct when an investigation was out in place.

Any other president..

Your post contains too many subtle misrepresentations to address in full. In brief, no one from the Trump campaign "received information willingly" (knowingly? your reference to contacts suggests this is what you meant) from a Russian agent. The only charge for which "ignorance of the law" is an applicable defence is a campaign finance violation, and Trump affiliates were investigated for many offences other than campaign finance violations -- for which they were also not charged.

The investigation established multiple links between Trump Campaign officials and individuals tied to the Russian government. Those links included Russian offers of assistance to the Campaign. In some instances , the Campaign was receptive to the offer, while in other instances the Campaign officials shied away. Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities.

They did not actively conspire but they willingly received information.

[Telconi]

Your post contains too many subtle misrepresentations to address in full. In brief, no one from the Trump campaign "received information willingly" (knowingly? your reference to contacts suggests this is what you meant) from a Russian agent. The only charge for which "ignorance of the law" is an applicable defence is a campaign finance violation, and Trump affiliates were investigated for many offences other than campaign finance violations -- for which they were also not charged.

The investigation established multiple links between Trump Campaign officials and individuals tied to the Russian government. Those links included Russian offers of assistance to the Campaign. In some instances , the Campaign was receptive to the offer, while in other instances the Campaign officials shied away. Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities.

They did not actively conspire but they willingly received information.

Which is evidently not a crime.

[Bombadil]

The investigation established multiple links between Trump Campaign officials and individuals tied to the Russian government. Those links included Russian offers of assistance to the Campaign. In some instances , the Campaign was receptive to the offer, while in other instances the Campaign officials shied away. Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities.

They did not actively conspire but they willingly received information.

Which is evidently not a crime.

Not a sufficiently provable one no.

The 9 June 2016 meeting, according to the report, raised “difficult statutory and constitutional questions” relating to “schemes involving the solicitation or receipt of assistance from foreign sources”. But the special counsel ultimately concluded that they could not prove Trump Jr or other participants were knowingly in violation of the law:

The Office ultimately concluded that, even if the principal legal questions were resolved favorably to the government, a prosecution would encounter difficulties proving that Campaign officials or individuals connected to the Campaign willfully violated the law.

[Telconi]

Which is evidently not a crime.

Not a sufficiently provable one no.

The 9 June 2016 meeting, according to the report, raised “difficult statutory and constitutional questions” relating to “schemes involving the solicitation or receipt of assistance from foreign sources”. But the special counsel ultimately concluded that they could not prove Trump Jr or other participants were knowingly in violation of the law:

The Office ultimately concluded that, even if the principal legal questions were resolved favorably to the government, a prosecution would encounter difficulties proving that Campaign officials or individuals connected to the Campaign willfully violated the law.

As I understand it intent is part of the crime, so this unwillingly doing the thing isn't criminal.

[Bombadil]

Not a sufficiently provable one no.

The 9 June 2016 meeting, according to the report, raised “difficult statutory and constitutional questions” relating to “schemes involving the solicitation or receipt of assistance from foreign sources”. But the special counsel ultimately concluded that they could not prove Trump Jr or other participants were knowingly in violation of the law:

The Office ultimately concluded that, even if the principal legal questions were resolved favorably to the government, a prosecution would encounter difficulties proving that Campaign officials or individuals connected to the Campaign willfully violated the law.

As I understand it intent is part of the crime, so this unwillingly doing the thing isn't criminal.

It's essentially manslaughter not murder, and only because they can't prove intent. Like.. while he ran the victim over before shooting him repeatedly.. we can't prove he meant to do it so we'll have to let him go. It is possible his foot slipped on the accelerator and then he fell out of the car onto his gun which then fired accidentally.

[Telconi]

As I understand it intent is part of the crime, so this unwillingly doing the thing isn't criminal.

It's essentially manslaughter not murder, and only because they can't prove intent. Like.. while he ran the victim over before shooting him repeatedly.. we can't prove he meant to do it so we'll have to let him go. It is possible his foot slipped on the accelerator and then he fell out of the car onto his gun which then fired accidentally.

Except accidental murder (manslaughter) is a crime. Accidental collusion isn't.

[Prekonate]

Your post contains too many subtle misrepresentations to address in full. In brief, no one from the Trump campaign "received information willingly" (knowingly? your reference to contacts suggests this is what you meant) from a Russian agent. The only charge for which "ignorance of the law" is an applicable defence is a campaign finance violation, and Trump affiliates were investigated for many offences other than campaign finance violations -- for which they were also not charged.

The investigation established multiple links between Trump Campaign officials and individuals tied to the Russian government. Those links included Russian offers of assistance to the Campaign. In some instances , the Campaign was receptive to the offer, while in other instances the Campaign officials shied away. Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities.

They did not actively conspire but they willingly received information.

Let's not make more out of it than Mueller did. Trump aides did not "willingly receive information," because no information was ultimately received. At most, some aides were receptive to receiving information from the Russians, as the segment you quoted states. That might be enough for some people to conclude that Trump's aides were villains, but in any case, it falls well short of conspiracy or coordination.

[Prekonate]

As I understand it intent is part of the crime, so this unwillingly doing the thing isn't criminal.

It's essentially manslaughter not murder, and only because they can't prove intent. Like.. while he ran the victim over before shooting him repeatedly.. we can't prove he meant to do it so we'll have to let him go. It is possible his foot slipped on the accelerator and then he fell out of the car onto his gun which then fired accidentally.

Again, the motive requirement only attaches to campaign finance violations (you quote from the section regarding campaign finance violations), and Trump's campaign was cleared of many violations not related to campaign finance.

(Also the scenario you describe is murder, because obviously a finder of fact could infer intent from those facts. Very misleading)

[Myrensis]

I remember when the Republicans were civil and polite during the Obama Administration too.

They were as civil as he deserved.

Then you agree that nothing Democrats have done regarding Trump is out of line? I mean, the entire Trump Administration has been an endless series of "Imagine the apocalyptic meltdown conservatives would have had if Obama had said or done anything even remotely similar."

If all the hysterical bullshit Republicans threw at Obama was as he deserved, then Trump supporters should be thanking liberals profusely for treating Trump with kid gloves.

[Nazeroth]

They were as civil as he deserved.

Then you agree that nothing Democrats have done regarding Trump is out of line? I mean, the entire Trump Administration has been an endless series of "Imagine the apocalyptic meltdown conservatives would have had if Obama had said or done anything even remotely similar."

If all the hysterical bullshit Republicans threw at Obama was as he deserved, then Trump supporters should be thanking liberals profusely for treating Trump with kid gloves.

utter bullshit, mountains of utter bullshit

Trump supporters have been harassed FAR harsher than Obama's and conservative media is being silenced, what kind of clown world is this? honk honk

[Gormwood]

They were as civil as he deserved.

Then you agree that nothing Democrats have done regarding Trump is out of line? I mean, the entire Trump Administration has been an endless series of "Imagine the apocalyptic meltdown conservatives would have had if Obama had said or done anything even remotely similar."

If all the hysterical bullshit Republicans threw at Obama was as he deserved, then Trump supporters should be thanking liberals profusely for treating Trump with kid gloves.

He never argues in good faith.

[Myrensis]

Then you agree that nothing Democrats have done regarding Trump is out of line? I mean, the entire Trump Administration has been an endless series of "Imagine the apocalyptic meltdown conservatives would have had if Obama had said or done anything even remotely similar."

If all the hysterical bullshit Republicans threw at Obama was as he deserved, then Trump supporters should be thanking liberals profusely for treating Trump with kid gloves.

utter bullshit, mountains of utter bullshit

Trump supporters have been harassed FAR harsher than Obama's and conservative media is being silenced, what kind of clown world is this? honk honk

Yes, the conservative persecution complex and false equivalencies and attempts to play the victim are true mountains of bullshit, sadly that is exactly the kind of clown world this is.

[Nazeroth]

utter bullshit, mountains of utter bullshit

Trump supporters have been harassed FAR harsher than Obama's and conservative media is being silenced, what kind of clown world is this? honk honk

Yes, the conservative persecution complex and false equivalencies and attempts to play the victim are true mountains of bullshit, sadly that is exactly the kind of clown world this is.

Yes, conservatives are not being silenced on social media, there is no agenda, Milo and Ben Shapiro were not constantly harassed and removed from campus's due to safety conerns.

sad honk

[Gormwood]

Yes, the conservative persecution complex and false equivalencies and attempts to play the victim are true mountains of bullshit, sadly that is exactly the kind of clown world this is.

Yes, conservatives are not being silenced on social media, there is no agenda, Milo and Ben Shapiro were not constantly harassed and removed from campus's due to safety conerns.

sad honk

Oh right, I forgot Fox News was shut down completely.

[Nazeroth]

Yes, conservatives are not being silenced on social media, there is no agenda, Milo and Ben Shapiro were not constantly harassed and removed from campus's due to safety conerns.

sad honk

Oh right, I forgot Fox News was shut down completely.

They tried destroying sargon of akkad among others, they successfully destroyed alex jones(twitter looked fucking retarded after joe rogan interviewed them, clearly pieces of shit)

honk honk honk and the worlds burns a little more.