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Malaysian jailed for 10 years for "insulting Islam"

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New Bremerton
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Malaysian jailed for 10 years for "insulting Islam"

Postby New Bremerton » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:17 am

As a Malaysian, a liberal and an atheist, this is an issue that’s really close to my heart, but I have a feeling nobody’s going to give a rat’s ass about some tiny, insignificant country in Southeast Asia and this thread’s going to die out after just a few pages. International media coverage of Malaysia, a country with a history of officially sanctioned racial and religious discrimination against minorities like me (i.e. affirmative action, race-based quotas like the ones at Ivy League universities that also discriminate against Asians like me), is exceedingly rare and overwhelmingly negative. But I’m going to give NSG a shot anyway. I’ll try to keep this as unbloggy as I possibly can and pitch a couple questions at the end. A few weeks ago, this happened:

Malaysian jailed 10 years for insulting Islam on social media

KUALA LUMPUR • A Malaysian has been jailed for 10 years, and three others charged over insults against Islam and Prophet Muhammad on social media, the police said yesterday.
The sentence is believed to be the harshest such penalty on record in the Muslim-majority country, where concerns over racial and religious tensions have grown in recent months.
Inspector-General of Police Mohamad Fuzi Harun said in a statement that the person, who was not identified, had pleaded guilty to 10 charges of misusing communication networks. The offence carries a maximum penalty of one year in jail or a fine of up to RM50,000 (S$16,600), or both.
The sentences were meted out consecutively, Tan Sri Mohamad Fuzi said.
Utusan Malaysia newspaper identified the man as 22-year old Alister Cogia from Sarawak, which used the Facebook account Ayea Yea, which has apparently been shut down.
Another social media user had also pleaded guilty and a sentencing hearing will be held tomorrow.
Two others had pleaded not guilty and were being held without bail.
All four were charged under laws against causing racial disharmony, incitement and misusing communications networks.
"The police advise the public not to abuse social media or communication networks by uploading or sharing any form of provocation that can affect religious or racial sensitivities, causing racial tensions within this country's diverse community," Mr Mohamad Fuzi said.
Last Thursday, Minister in Charge of Religious Affairs Mujahid Yusof Rawa said the Islamic Affairs Department had set up a unit to monitor writings and communications insulting Islam and Prophet Muhammad.
He said the ministry would not compromise on any acts insulting the religion and called for punishments against those found guilty of such.
Meanwhile, reacting to the sentence on Sunday (March 10), the adviser to the Democratic Action Party (DAP), MP Lim Kit Siang, described the 10-year punishment as "excessive" and said the person involved should appeal to the court for a lighter sentence.
"All Malaysians must uphold the Constitution and respect all religions in Malaysia but there must be no excessive punishments like the 10-year jail sentence by the Kuching Sessions Court for a social media holder for insulting Islam and Prophet Mohamad," said Mr Lim in his blog. The DAP is one of the four parties that make up the ruling Pakatan Harapn coalition.
"As advised by the de facto deputy law minister, Hanipa Maidin, the social media holder should appeal against the decision," Mr Lim added.

REUTERS


Barely a week later, this happened:

Malaysia deports six Egyptians despite concerns over torture, rights abuses

KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysia has deported six Egyptians and a Tunisian suspected of being linked to extremist militant groups abroad.
The suspects include five people who confessed to being part of Egypt’s banned Muslim Brotherhood, Inspector-General of Police Mohamad Fuzi Harun said in a statement on Sunday.
The Tunisian and one of the Egyptians deported were members of Ansar Al-Sharia Al-Tunisia, which is listed as a terrorist group by the United Nations, Mohamad Fuzi said.
The two, both in their early 20s, had previously been detained for attempting to enter another country illegally in 2016. They allegedly used fake passports to enter Malaysia with the intention of traveling to and launching an attack in a third country, police said.
“Members of this terror group are suspected of being involved in plans to carry out large-scale attacks in other countries,” Mohamad Fuzi said.
The other five Egyptians confessed to being members of the Muslim Brotherhood, and are accused of providing shelter, transport and employment for the two linked to Ansar Al-Sharia.
“As the presence of these foreigners constitute a security risk, all suspects have been deported to their native country and... recommendations have been made to blacklist them from entering Malaysia for life,” Mohamad Fuzi said, adding that two Malaysians were detained in the counter-terror operation.
However, Amnesty International Malaysia said the Egyptians deported were now at risk of enforced disappearance, torture, prolonged detention and unfair trials.
“We urge the Malaysian government to respect the principle of non-refoulement and ensure that those at risk of persecution or risk of irreparable harm in another country, including torture, are not deported,” said the group’s executive director Shamini Darshni Kaliemuthu.
Malaysia has arrested hundreds of people in the past few years for suspected links to militant groups, after gunmen allied with Daesh carried out a series of attacks in Jakarta, the capital of neighboring Indonesia, in January 2016.
A grenade attack on a bar on the outskirts of the Malaysian capital, Kuala Lumpur, in June 2016 wounded eight people. Daesh claimed responsibility for the attack, the first such strike on Malaysian soil.


Both reports are sourced from Reuters. As you may have noticed, Amnesty International spoke out against the deportation of Egyptian nationals suspected of having links to radical Islamist terror groups. In sharp contrast, not one word has been uttered by Amnesty regarding the plight of the Malaysian who was jailed for TEN WHOLE YEARS for the “crime” of “insulting Islam”, nor has there been any indication as to exactly what he wrote on Facebook that was purportedly so offensive. Terrorists apparently have more rights than peaceful and genuine prisoners of conscience.

Alister Cogia has also been ordered to undergo mental observation. Criticizing religion and exercising one’s right to free speech is considered a sign of mental illness these days. It brings up memories of the Soviet Union’s political abuse of psychiatry. The Malaysian government has also moved to establish an ombudsman to look into such alleged “insults against Islam” on social media and elsewhere. No such ombudsman exists for any other religion.

Bear in mind that despite the recent transition to democracy last year, a culture of censoriousness persists when it comes to alleged insults against race and religion, and this attitude prevails not only among Muslims, but among most ordinary Malaysians of all races and religions much like it does in Singapore, although Muslims seem to be the most easily offended, and laws restricting so-called hate speech in Malaysia continue to be mainly applied in a one-sided manner against those, primarily non-Malays and non-Muslims, who “insult” Malays and Islam and less often the other way around.

I strongly suspect that this sentiment also prevails in other so-called Third World democracies such as India and Nigeria. Such countries have experienced racial and sectarian violence in the past and possess similarly repressive laws despite their democratic credentials. It seems that Third World denizens are either such snowflakes that they would riot and kill over a perceived slight, or they are otherwise fearful of history repeating itself. Religion, according to them, is sacrosanct and above reproach. I say fuck that and fuck religion. They’re the ones who choose to be offended and commit acts of violence over words and cartoons. This attitude also effectively discriminates against atheists and freethinkers alike, since we don’t have a religion to threaten and silence other people with.

In my opinion, the Left, for all its talk of equality, human rights and compassion, cannot be trusted to uphold the basic rights of Third World denizens like myself any more than the Right can, and I would take everything they say with an extremely big pinch of salt. Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and Avaaz have maintained a deafening silence over the case I mentioned above for several weeks now. The Left is guilty of staggering hypocrisy in this regard, all in the name of owning right-wing conservatives in the West. They only care about free speech if it suits their intersectional, Islamist-apologist narrative, else ex-Muslim atheist Ayaan Hirsi Ali and liberal Muslim reformer and counter-extremism activist Maajid Nawaz would be the darlings of the Left, and they wouldn’t be turning their backs on liberal-minded Malaysians and other people across the developing world who are “woke” and “redpilled” to liberal, Western ideals, whether via the internet or through time spent living in a Western country.

Instead, both Hirsi Ali and Nawaz have been listed by the SPLC as “anti-Muslim extremists”. Any criticism of Islam, and only Islam and no other religion, is considered racist and bigoted, and if Third World critics of Islam are locked up in their home countries, tough shit. A sick joke and a shitshow is what the Left has devolved into over the past decade, so much so I’ve been forced to stop calling myself “leftwing” in recent years.

The formerly liberal Left, in collusion with far-right stealth Islamists, has betrayed certain types of Third Worlders like myself for daring to go against the (religious, predominantly Islamic) grain in our own, backward societies. This sense of betrayal is not something I feel coming from rightwing conservatives, because the Western Right has never even pretended to care, and I have always disagreed with them, sometimes strongly, on many issues. The Left has also turned its back on fiercely antireligious New Atheists like myself who are critical of Islam for the exact same reasons. Ex-Muslim atheists have it even worse, and they are either ignored or vilified by the Left and a number of far-right stealth Islamist allies for peddling “Islamophobia”.

If I were to say the kinds of things, namely legitimate criticism, that Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens and Ayaan Hirsi Ali have said about Islam, would I be prosecuted for “insulting Islam”, “hate speech” and “inciting racial and religious disharmony”? Would I be labeled as “mentally ill”, like Alister Cogia has been, by a large percentage of my countrymen simply for being extremely Westernized and holding certain views not common among most Malaysians? Some of my peers IRL have already privately labeled me as such. Would I be sentenced to ten years in prison and ordered to see a so-called shrink for “counseling”? And if that happens, will Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, Avaaz and the Western Left have my back? Would Antifa have my back?

I suspect the answers to these questions would be yes and no respectively. Antifa (not NS Antifa) has chapters all across the Western world, but if such a chapter exists in Malaysia, I haven’t heard of it. I have yet to encounter Malaysian members of Antifa physically confronting the far-right Malay and Muslim fascists in the streets of Kuala Lumpur. Antifa only goes after white supremacists it seems, and many of their targets e.g. Tucker Carlson aren't even that.

I fear the recent Christchurch white supremacist terror attacks will only harden the resolve among certain “hate speech is not free speech” leftists and far-right Islamic fundamentalists to crack down even further on freedom of expression in the name of maintaining “racial and religious harmony” and “national security”. The internet will undoubtedly be impacted, no matter where in the world we live. I think we have to push back hard against this chilling rollback of freedom of expression by certain quarters before it suffocates us all. Radical leftists and Islamists alike have no right to dictate what constitutes “hate speech” and what doesn’t, and the same applies to Malaysians, Singaporeans and other Third World denizens who urgently need to change their mindset. (Yes, I know Singapore’s a developed country, but still.)

But in the interests of not turning this thread into a blog, my questions to NSG are as follows:

Should Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Avaaz and other NGOs be called out for not doing enough to uphold free speech both online and offline, in the West and in the developing world, or even allegedly undermining their very own stated cause? Should they be called out for caring more about the rights of terrorists than those of ordinary people like myself simply for having an opinion about a religion?

Do you think that perceived “insults” against race and religion, particularly Islam, should be prosecuted with say, a ten-year jail sentence and mental health “counseling”, or is such an approach something to be decried and condemned as generally repressive and specifically discriminatory toward atheists? Do you think that Muslims are more prone to subscribing to such a restrictive ideal than followers of other religions or none? Or do you think that outspoken individuals who are critical of religion should be hailed as prisoners of conscience by the so-called human rights NGOs mentioned in the previous question? Should there be a Write for Rights campaign for Alister Cogia this December (or earlier)?

Should Muslims and adherents of other faiths be called out for being so intolerant and easily offended?

Finally, has the Left, specifically the intersectional Third Wave feminist Western Left, turned its back on free speech, atheists (particularly ex-Muslim atheists) and critics of Islam, even when it involves people being sentenced to ten years in prison and mental health “counseling” for a perceived slight against a particular religion that, IMO, is worthy of absolutely nothing but mockery and ridicule precisely because of what happened to this guy, and because of what is contained in the holy texts (a topic for the IDT; please don’t derail the thread) and the intolerant behavior of a large percentage of its followers? Is the Western Left guilty of hypocrisy for pretending to uphold the human rights of minorities and other prisoners of conscience around the world, only to turn a blind eye whenever someone is prosecuted for “hate speech” against a particular religion in a foreign country i.e. mine? Is the Left only interested in scoring political points against Western, rightwing conservatives at the expense of all else? Has the Left abandoned liberalism and all that it stands for?
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Postby New Sukberia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:21 am

"Finally, has the Left, specifically the intersectional Third Wave feminist Western Left, turned its back on free speech, atheists (particularly ex-Muslim atheists) and critics of Islam, even when it involves people being sentenced to ten years in prison and mental health “counseling” for a perceived slight against a particular religion that,"

Finnally someone said it.
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:22 am

Religious laws, absolutely mind numbingly retarded and not even once. Load of bollocks that is happening to this person.
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Postby New Sukberia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:24 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Religious laws, absolutely mind numbingly retarded and not even once. Load of bollocks that is happening to this person.

They are SO sure they are right, that they emprison all those who disagree... Really makes you think about ALL blasphemy laws
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:26 am

New Sukberia wrote:"Finally, has the Left, specifically the intersectional Third Wave feminist Western Left, turned its back on free speech, atheists (particularly ex-Muslim atheists) and critics of Islam, even when it involves people being sentenced to ten years in prison and mental health “counseling” for a perceived slight against a particular religion that,"

Finnally someone said it.


And this came from where?
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:27 am

Vassenor wrote:
New Sukberia wrote:"Finally, has the Left, specifically the intersectional Third Wave feminist Western Left, turned its back on free speech, atheists (particularly ex-Muslim atheists) and critics of Islam, even when it involves people being sentenced to ten years in prison and mental health “counseling” for a perceived slight against a particular religion that,"

Finnally someone said it.


And this came from where?

Its literally the bottom of the OP.
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Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:30 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Religious laws, absolutely mind numbingly retarded and not even once. Load of bollocks that is happening to this person.


In a world today, when it is widely aware that you aren’t the only people, such religious law has to go. Sure, they could revise it, but unless the person commenting threatens a terrorist attack or some kind of crusade, that should not apply.
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Postby Definitely Not Trumptonium » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:30 am

I don't see what's wrong with it. Malaysia is not a caliphate. It runs a state for the purpose of societal order - the demographics of which would cause an all-out war if said state collapsed. As it did before.

The fact that Malaysia simultaneously jails people for "insulting Islam" while deporting people for being part of Saudi wahhabist groups and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood show that they are not extremist in any way. They have the same modus operandi as Tunisia, Lebanon and Jordan. A closed-fist state with order as priority, doing everything it needs to do to ensure that continues to be the case.

It doesn't matter how many people they jail for insulting Islam, ceteris paribus.

Portugal and Poland were also uber authoritarian right-wing dictatorships in the interwar period, and were jailing fascists everyday. The end goal of which is to ensure that the social fabric remains intact.

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Postby New Sukberia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:31 am

Definitely Not Trumptonium wrote:I don't see what's wrong with it. Malaysia is not a caliphate. It runs a state for the purpose of societal order - the demographics of which would cause an all-out war if said state collapsed. As it did before.

The fact that Malaysia simultaneously jails people for "insulting Islam" while deporting people for being part of Saudi wahhabist groups and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood show that they are not extremist in any way. They have the same modus operandi as Tunisia, Lebanon and Jordan. A closed-fist state with order as priority, doing everything it needs to do to ensure that continues to be the case.

It doesn't matter how many people they jail for insulting Islam, ceteris paribus.

Portugal and Poland were also uber authoritarian right-wing dictatorships in the interwar period, and were jailing fascists everyday. The end goal of which is to ensure that the social fabric remains intact.


Just because we both hate AIDS, doesn't mean i want you to contaminate me with Cancer.

AKA: just because we both hate terrorism, banning free speech is STILL NOT acceptable.
Last edited by New Sukberia on Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Revolucionario Cuba » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:35 am

Islam breeds extremism and disregard for humanity in the modern age at least.
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Postby Valentine Z » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:37 am

Welp, I thought it'll be cool to hear some news about Singapore and/or Malaysia.

But damn... I mean, insulting a religion can hurt or turn things ugly (religion being personal for the most parts), but no one should get jailtime, let alone 10 years, for insulting.
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:37 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And this came from where?

Its literally the bottom of the OP.


I know where the specific text came from. That wasn't my question.
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Postby Valentine Z » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:40 am

Revolucionario Cuba wrote:Islam breeds extremism and disregard for humanity in the modern age at least.


I have heard this song and dance so many times that it's not very funny anymore to me.

As far as I can read, this is less about Islam being extremist, and rather, the irrational laws where someone gets a decade of jailtime for an insult.
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Postby New Sukberia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:42 am

Valentine Z wrote:
Revolucionario Cuba wrote:Islam breeds extremism and disregard for humanity in the modern age at least.


I have heard this song and dance so many times that it's not very funny anymore to me.

As far as I can read, this is less about Islam being extremist, and rather, the irrational laws where someone gets a decade of jailtime for an insult.

I kinda wanna say: "Irationnal laws provoked by...?"

But then again, i might get this nation banned for being mean, so i'll just not do it.
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Postby Astoriya » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:42 am

Here's my trawl on the OP's thread...
In before the shitstorm erupts...
DISCLAIMER: if at any point I sound insulting, that's unintentional - but this thread here is something else...
I strongly suspect that this sentiment also prevails in other so-called Third World democracies such as India and Nigeria. Such countries have experienced racial and sectarian violence in the past and possess similarly repressive laws despite their democratic credentials.

First & second part, yes - third part, nope
Any criticism of Islam, and only Islam and no other religion, is considered racist and bigoted, and if Third World critics of Islam are locked up in their home countries, tough shit

Less "racist & bigoted" and more "absolute BS, try harder next time" - plus, it's very rare to hear actual criticism rather than just half-baked "truths"
If I were to say the kinds of things, namely legitimate criticism, that Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens and Ayaan Hirsi Ali have said about Islam, would I be prosecuted for “insulting Islam”, “hate speech” and “inciting racial and religious disharmony”?

See above - and it'd be unlikely, as you'll more likely get justifiably called out
And if that happens, will Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, Avaaz and the Western Left have my back? Would Antifa have my back?

One of these is not like the others... I wonder what that is
Do you think that perceived “insults” against race and religion,..., should be prosecuted with say, a ten-year jail sentence and mental health “counseling”, or is such an approach something to be decried and condemned as generally repressive and specifically discriminatory toward atheists?

The latter one is much more desirable
Do you think that Muslims are more prone to subscribing to such a restrictive ideal than followers of other religions or none?

OK, now what the hell is that supposed to mean ?
Should Muslims and adherents of other faiths be called out for being so intolerant and easily offended?

Oh for fuck's sake, going off the deep end, are we ? See above
specifically the intersectional Third Wave feminist Western Left

Did you mean: extreme left
and because of what is contained in the holy texts (a topic for the IDT; please don’t derail the thread) and the intolerant behavior of a large percentage of its followers?

Good, so now we have massive exaggeration on many levels, and basically making themselves a bullseye for potential derailers - what could possibly go wrong ?
Is the Left only interested in scoring political points against Western, rightwing conservatives at the expense of all else?

This can be used for both parties, IMO

Revolucionario Cuba wrote:Islam breeds extremism and disregard for humanity in the modern age at least.

*cough cough Old Testament cough*
Valentine Z wrote:
I have heard this song and dance so many times that it's not very funny anymore to me.

As far as I can read, this is less about Islam being extremist, and rather, the irrational laws where someone gets a decade of jailtime for an insult.

More or less
Last edited by Astoriya on Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:43 am

Definitely Not Trumptonium wrote:I don't see what's wrong with it. Malaysia is not a caliphate. It runs a state for the purpose of societal order - the demographics of which would cause an all-out war if said state collapsed. As it did before.

The fact that Malaysia simultaneously jails people for "insulting Islam" while deporting people for being part of Saudi wahhabist groups and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood show that they are not extremist in any way. They have the same modus operandi as Tunisia, Lebanon and Jordan. A closed-fist state with order as priority, doing everything it needs to do to ensure that continues to be the case.

It doesn't matter how many people they jail for insulting Islam, ceteris paribus.

Portugal and Poland were also uber authoritarian right-wing dictatorships in the interwar period, and were jailing fascists everyday. The end goal of which is to ensure that the social fabric remains intact.

“Insulting” Islam, let alone any religion, is incredibly benign and inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and not even remotely worth the resources of the criminal justice system to prosecute. Freedom is more important than the feels of religious people offended by blasphemy.
Hey, it's up to us to take out Umbrella.

8values
Political Compass
Will retake these every-so-often.
PRO:
- Free speech
- Gun rights
- LGBTQ rights
- Choice
- Separation of church and state/secularism
- Gender/sexual equality
- Racial equality
- Due process
- Equal protection of the laws
- Cannabis legalization
- Social Democracy
- Universal Healthcare
ANTI:
- Fascism/Nazism
- Racial supremacy
- Totalitarianism
- Conservatism
- Racism
- Sexism
- Religious extremism
- Theocracy
- Jingoism
- Nationalism
- War on Drugs
- Anarchism
- Anti-Intellectualism
- Laissez-faire Capitalism

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New Sukberia
Envoy
 
Posts: 214
Founded: Sep 18, 2018
Mother Knows Best State

Postby New Sukberia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:45 am

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Definitely Not Trumptonium wrote:I don't see what's wrong with it. Malaysia is not a caliphate. It runs a state for the purpose of societal order - the demographics of which would cause an all-out war if said state collapsed. As it did before.

The fact that Malaysia simultaneously jails people for "insulting Islam" while deporting people for being part of Saudi wahhabist groups and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood show that they are not extremist in any way. They have the same modus operandi as Tunisia, Lebanon and Jordan. A closed-fist state with order as priority, doing everything it needs to do to ensure that continues to be the case.

It doesn't matter how many people they jail for insulting Islam, ceteris paribus.

Portugal and Poland were also uber authoritarian right-wing dictatorships in the interwar period, and were jailing fascists everyday. The end goal of which is to ensure that the social fabric remains intact.

“Insulting” Islam, let alone any religion, is incredibly benign and inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and not even remotely worth the resources of the criminal justice system to prosecute. Freedom is more important than the feels of religious people offended by blasphemy.



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The Huskar Social Union
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38192
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:47 am

Vassenor wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Its literally the bottom of the OP.


I know where the specific text came from. That wasn't my question.

Then what are you asking
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Definitely Not Trumptonium
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 127
Founded: Mar 13, 2019
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Definitely Not Trumptonium » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:49 am

New Sukberia wrote:
Definitely Not Trumptonium wrote:I don't see what's wrong with it. Malaysia is not a caliphate. It runs a state for the purpose of societal order - the demographics of which would cause an all-out war if said state collapsed. As it did before.

The fact that Malaysia simultaneously jails people for "insulting Islam" while deporting people for being part of Saudi wahhabist groups and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood show that they are not extremist in any way. They have the same modus operandi as Tunisia, Lebanon and Jordan. A closed-fist state with order as priority, doing everything it needs to do to ensure that continues to be the case.

It doesn't matter how many people they jail for insulting Islam, ceteris paribus.

Portugal and Poland were also uber authoritarian right-wing dictatorships in the interwar period, and were jailing fascists everyday. The end goal of which is to ensure that the social fabric remains intact.


Just because we both hate AIDS, doesn't mean i want you to contaminate me with Cancer.

AKA: just because we both hate terrorism, banning free speech is STILL NOT acceptable.


Each country is a banner of its own culture.

Just like Americans, despite liking free speech, would find it highly unacceptable as a group to denigrate veterans/armed forces/the flag/the pledge/jesus and whatever else americans orgasm over.

User avatar
The Grims
Diplomat
 
Posts: 969
Founded: Antiquity
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Grims » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:51 am

Your intro motivated me to not bother to read the remainder of your post.
Pity. It looked interesting. Perhaps you can remove the whine ?

User avatar
New Sukberia
Envoy
 
Posts: 214
Founded: Sep 18, 2018
Mother Knows Best State

Postby New Sukberia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:52 am

Definitely Not Trumptonium wrote:
New Sukberia wrote:
Just because we both hate AIDS, doesn't mean i want you to contaminate me with Cancer.

AKA: just because we both hate terrorism, banning free speech is STILL NOT acceptable.


Each country is a banner of its own culture.

Just like Americans, despite liking free speech, would find it highly unacceptable as a group to denigrate veterans/armed forces/the flag/the pledge/jesus and whatever else americans orgasm over.


"To each their own, no debate allowed, everything is the same if you look at it the right way".

This way of thinking is bad. Democracy and Free Speech have no equals, so comparing them to authoritarian regimes and blasphemy laws because of "culture" is bad.

The ROC and the PRC have the same exact culture. One is the beacon of democracy/women rights, the other is a totalitarian dictatorship that uses its citizens as slaves.
Last edited by New Sukberia on Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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♔-Put this in your sig if you're a Monarchy!

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Astoriya
Diplomat
 
Posts: 654
Founded: Oct 04, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Astoriya » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:52 am

The Grims wrote:Your intro motivated me to not bother to read the remainder of your post.
Pity. It looked interesting. Perhaps you can remove the whine ?

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=461939 comes to mind

User avatar
Samudera Darussalam
Diplomat
 
Posts: 901
Founded: Aug 05, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Samudera Darussalam » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:54 am

I mean.....I don't know what to say about this. While personally, I thought that the part where "she has to go to see some experts" or whatever it's is just too much. 'Blasphemy'. What a word. I really want to know what she said to see if her sentence(s) are worth to give or not.

And....basically as a citizen of a country that's very close to Malaysia (and to some extent Singapore) by geography and culture, I want to know if it has to do with the concept of 'Ketuanan Melayu' or something like that?
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User avatar
Aclion
Senator
 
Posts: 3550
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aclion » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:59 am

Definitely Not Trumptonium wrote:
New Sukberia wrote:
Just because we both hate AIDS, doesn't mean i want you to contaminate me with Cancer.

AKA: just because we both hate terrorism, banning free speech is STILL NOT acceptable.


Each country is a banner of its own culture.

Just like Americans, despite liking free speech, would find it highly unacceptable as a group to denigrate veterans/armed forces/the flag/the pledge/jesus and whatever else americans orgasm over.

None of those would get you imprisoned however. Americans protect free speech, even that which we disagree with.
A free society rests on four boxes: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box.
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Iciaros
Envoy
 
Posts: 260
Founded: Sep 30, 2014
Libertarian Police State

Postby Iciaros » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:59 am

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:“Insulting” Islam, let alone any religion, is incredibly benign and inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and not even remotely worth the resources of the criminal justice system to prosecute. Freedom is more important than the feels of religious people offended by blasphemy.


Putting aside all issues of right and wrong, fairness and unfairness, reasonableness and irrationality, etc... I can't help but agree with Ohio's statement. Knowing the situation in Malaysia and around it, I do understand why it is important to maintain religious harmony (even if I disagree on the methods); however, it strikes me as pointless to devote resources to throw them in jail. You have better people to put in those jail cells and better people whose food, water, and upkeep could be paid for. If you really, really have to prosecute them, just slap a fine or something on them, or if you're okay with it, some corporal punishment (not saying I agree with that). Jails are expensive, you know.

Or, perhaps even better, take it off the list of crimes and make it a civil wrong or something. Then you can get those who are offended to spend their own money to shut 'blasphemers' up. That would probably be even cheaper. (Malaysia probably needs that money, knowing what's been going on...)

Anyway, personally, I think this is sad and wrong, but as with all moral issues nowadays, that's neither here nor there. If Malaysia really does want to achieve a state where Islam is revered with little dissent, however, there are probably better and cheaper ways to do it than this. If Malaysia just wants to achieve a state where religious dissent is minimal, they could take a page out of Singapore's book, but I'm pretty sure the Malaysian agenda has the primacy of Islam somewhere in it.
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