A Power Struggle Hypothetical

[Purgatio]

The lords might not be all out for themselves. We can't assume that.

Of course they are. No one in politics does anything except in self-interest. These feudal lords have every personal incentive to fabricate BS charges about the Hand and weaken the power of the throne and the central monarchical government, destabilising the crown before an all-out rebellion/civil war. There's no other possible reason they'd accuse her so brazenly.

[Heloin]

Well I'm saying kill her aswell

Oh...that seems a little risky. You're not a noble at all (at least I didn't see that in the OP), if a lower-ranked noble like Delacroix is already attracting controversy a non-noble military commander is likely to be even more inflammatory. You are going to have a civil war on your hands pretty fast, especially since you've alienated anti-Delacroix and royalist factions in the country alike. You won't be 'supreme ruler' of this kingdom for very long.

At least with Delacroix as your ally you will have power through a woman who has already established herself as capable of governing and keeping herself in power. It's the safer bet.

That's why my coup would need to be quick. The best hope would be having Delacroix killed in the room with the lords, and as they celebrate have them arrested for killing her and attempting a coup. Bring them before King moron and tell him they killed Delacroix and were trying to overthrow him (and highly suggest that he have them executed). Once he agrees with me have them quietly executed the same day. Once that's done the story that the lords killed Delacroix and were arrested by castle guards who caught them before they could kill the king would be sent around the kingdom while the king declares me Lord Protector (well Lady Protector).

[Heloin]

Alright... I see what the problem is here...

Please standby while I rework a little detail here

Don't go trying to stop my kill everyone plan just because it's perfect.

[Valentine Z]

But ultimately, I think it will be up to me, and I have to backing of an entire army to do it, like the others said here.

"Yeah, I have an army. What do you think you can do, o' wise Lords and little miss Delacroix ?"

On another note, Delacroix sounds French. Nothing wrong with that, so I am to assume that this is in France? Then... Fritz is a German name... how did a French woman get in cahoots with a German king/descendance?

I know the King is a little bit of an idiot, but still, I'm not sure if a foreigner like herself can get into the high power that easily.

Still, this is not the point of the thread, just my speculation.

[Lunas Legion]

But ultimately, I think it will be up to me, and I have to backing of an entire army to do it, like the others said here.

"Yeah, I have an army. What do you think you can do, o' wise Lords and little miss Delacroix ?"

On another note, Delacroix sounds French. Nothing wrong with that, so I am to assume that this is in France? Then... Fritz is a German name... how did a French woman get in cahoots with a German king/descendance?

I know the King is a little bit of an idiot, but still, I'm not sure if a foreigner like herself can get into the high power that easily.

Still, this is not the point of the thread, just my speculation.

Could be the Holy Roman Empire but it covers the entire old Carolingian Empire.

[Purgatio]

Oh...that seems a little risky. You're not a noble at all (at least I didn't see that in the OP), if a lower-ranked noble like Delacroix is already attracting controversy a non-noble military commander is likely to be even more inflammatory. You are going to have a civil war on your hands pretty fast, especially since you've alienated anti-Delacroix and royalist factions in the country alike. You won't be 'supreme ruler' of this kingdom for very long.

At least with Delacroix as your ally you will have power through a woman who has already established herself as capable of governing and keeping herself in power. It's the safer bet.

That's why my coup would need to be quick. The best hope would be having Delacroix killed in the room with the lords, and as they celebrate have them arrested for killing her and attempting a coup. Bring them before King moron and tell him they killed Delacroix and were trying to overthrow him (and highly suggest that he have them executed). Once he agrees with me have them quietly executed the same day. Once that's done the story that the lords killed Delacroix and were arrested by castle guards who caught them before they could kill the king would be sent around the kingdom while the king declares me Lord Protector (well Lady Protector).

I feel like there's just too much that could go wrong with a risky plan like this. Like, to begin with, there are just way too many footsoldiers who know that you've lied to the King and fabricated a story, are you planning to kill all of them when you're done? Are you gonna bank on the possibility that none of them told third parties that you're unaware of and your lie may not hold up forever? We're talking about a lot of footsoldiers here, the ones who killed Delacroix, killed the lords and all their men, who conducted the execution. Maybe I'm being too risk-averse but I think the safer option is just to stick with Delacroix (for now at least) and execute the lords. She's already built up an existing power base and she's managed to remain in power and remove many of her enemies until now.

[Upper Secundus]

Kill the Lords, get the girl, kill the King, become Emperor because King is too low-ranking of a title, get an heir, kill the girl. Job done.

I've been playing too much CK2.

[Aellex]

"TIME FOR SOME NOBLE REPUBLIC BOYZ!"

[Free Arabian Nation]

Kill the Lords, get the girl, kill the King, become Emperor because King is too low-ranking of a title, get an heir, kill the girl. Job done.

I've been playing too much CK2.

When I play CK2, I just kill the heirs.

IDK why, it's more work.

But that's off topic

[Infected Mushroom]

NEW DETAIL ADDED:

The other lords assumed that you would support their attempt to remove Delacroix because without her, you would, by your reputation as a great warrior, commander and administrator, be almost certain to be appointed the next Hand of the King. In fact, many of those lords had previously approached you and expressed regrets that you were not appointed Hand of the King. Most of those lords are also your friends and greatly respect you.

This makes it a lot more straightforward.

The lords like you and support you. Killing them is not necessarily, merely removing Delacroix would likely result in you being the new Hand of the King.

The main thing stopping you is that well... technically... she is the Hand of the King and its technically your job to obey her.

I realise there's too much uncertainty about where the lords stand (resulting in a lot of posters wanting to kill everyone). Let's make it a bit more clear.

Does this change the game too much????

...

This also as the effect of making the 2 poll options more relevant

[The Scarlet Eagle]

I'm gonna do neither of those.
This whole mess has lasted enough time, so I command the Guard to arrest EVERYONE in the room, establish a transition government, and review all of this in a fair trial.

[Free Arabian Nation]

I'm gonna do neither of those.
This whole mess has lasted enough time, so I command the Guard to arrest EVERYONE in the room, establish a transition government, and review all of this in a fair trial.

Fair trial? What's that?

[Heloin]

That's why my coup would need to be quick. The best hope would be having Delacroix killed in the room with the lords, and as they celebrate have them arrested for killing her and attempting a coup. Bring them before King moron and tell him they killed Delacroix and were trying to overthrow him (and highly suggest that he have them executed). Once he agrees with me have them quietly executed the same day. Once that's done the story that the lords killed Delacroix and were arrested by castle guards who caught them before they could kill the king would be sent around the kingdom while the king declares me Lord Protector (well Lady Protector).

I feel like there's just too much that could go wrong with a risky plan like this. Like, to begin with, there are just way too many footsoldiers who know that you've lied to the King and fabricated a story, are you planning to kill all of them when you're done? Are you gonna bank on the possibility that none of them told third parties that you're unaware of and your lie may not hold up forever? We're talking about a lot of footsoldiers here, the ones who killed Delacroix, killed the lords and all their men, who conducted the execution. Maybe I'm being too risk-averse but I think the safer option is just to stick with Delacroix (for now at least) and execute the lords. She's already built up an existing power base and she's managed to remain in power and remove many of her enemies until now.

For the two mains points, there are going to be alot of dead people in this kingdom by the end of the year. Palace guards will of course need to be replaced by my personal regiments, the executions will need to be handled by soldiers and officers loyal to me, and a massive campaign to gain support from commoners by presenting myself as a friendly and humble servant of the king will be undertaken. As for her allies, well I said there was going to be alot of dead people.

[Infected Mushroom]

But ultimately, I think it will be up to me, and I have to backing of an entire army to do it, like the others said here.

"Yeah, I have an army. What do you think you can do, o' wise Lords and little miss Delacroix ?"

On another note, Delacroix sounds French. Nothing wrong with that, so I am to assume that this is in France? Then... Fritz is a German name... how did a French woman get in cahoots with a German king/descendance?

I know the King is a little bit of an idiot, but still, I'm not sure if a foreigner like herself can get into the high power that easily.

Still, this is not the point of the thread, just my speculation.

French women are extremely skilled

[Free Arabian Nation]

But ultimately, I think it will be up to me, and I have to backing of an entire army to do it, like the others said here.

"Yeah, I have an army. What do you think you can do, o' wise Lords and little miss Delacroix ?"

On another note, Delacroix sounds French. Nothing wrong with that, so I am to assume that this is in France? Then... Fritz is a German name... how did a French woman get in cahoots with a German king/descendance?

I know the King is a little bit of an idiot, but still, I'm not sure if a foreigner like herself can get into the high power that easily.

Still, this is not the point of the thread, just my speculation.

French women are extremely skilled

[Valentine Z]

With the addition of the new point... with the Lords on my side...

I think Little Miss Manipulative needs to go.

[Caracasus]

The king's not coming back by the way. Apparently he tragically slipped and fell, landing on a bunch of crossbow bolts.

[Purgatio]

NEW DETAIL ADDED:

The other lords assumed that you would support their attempt to remove Delacroix because without her, you would, by your reputation as a great warrior, commander and administrator, be almost certain to be appointed the next Hand of the King. In fact, many of those lords had previously approached you and expressed regrets that you were not appointed Hand of the King. Most of those lords are also your friends and greatly respect you.

This makes it a lot more straightforward.

The lords like you and support you. Killing them is not necessarily, merely removing Delacroix would likely result in you being the new Hand of the King.

The main thing stopping you is that well... technically... she is the Hand of the King and its technically your job to obey her.

I realise there's too much uncertainty about where the lords stand (resulting in a lot of posters wanting to kill everyone). Let's make it a bit more clear.

Does this change the game too much????

...

This also as the effect of making the 2 poll options more relevant

Idk, I'm still suspicious. These lords are uppity and rebellious enough to accuse the Hand of the King of pretty salacious things without any evidence. This feels too much like the preclude to an impeding civil war and insurgency. I won't be used by a bunch of opportunistic lords who claim to be my friend as a disguised power grab for themselves. Once they're done with me I'm sure they'll be happy to oust their "friend" from power given he's an obvious threat to their clearly-impending desire to rebel against the throne (people brazen enough to accuse the Hand like this are clearly plotting some kind of rebellion and treason).

Idk, my answer remains the same. Kill the traitor nobles. Friend or not, they are an obvious threat to me regardless. Their actions prove it.

[Pacific union of aligned nations]

No. There is a decent chance she did some of the poisonings, so how do I know I won’t be next?

[Infected Mushroom]

NEW DETAIL ADDED:



This makes it a lot more straightforward.

The lords like you and support you. Killing them is not necessarily, merely removing Delacroix would likely result in you being the new Hand of the King.

The main thing stopping you is that well... technically... she is the Hand of the King and its technically your job to obey her.

I realise there's too much uncertainty about where the lords stand (resulting in a lot of posters wanting to kill everyone). Let's make it a bit more clear.

Does this change the game too much????

...

This also as the effect of making the 2 poll options more relevant

Idk, I'm still suspicious. These lords are uppity and rebellious enough to accuse the Hand of the King of pretty salacious things without any evidence. This feels too much like the preclude to an impeding civil war and insurgency. I won't be used by a bunch of opportunistic lords who claim to be my friend as a disguised power grab for themselves. Once they're done with me I'm sure they'll be happy to oust their "friend" from power given he's an obvious threat to their clearly-impending desire to rebel against the throne (people brazen enough to accuse the Hand like this are clearly plotting some kind of rebellion and treason).

Idk, my answer remains the same. Kill the traitor nobles. Friend or not, they are an obvious threat to me regardless. Their actions prove it.

fair enough

it makes sense

[Purgatio]

I feel like there's just too much that could go wrong with a risky plan like this. Like, to begin with, there are just way too many footsoldiers who know that you've lied to the King and fabricated a story, are you planning to kill all of them when you're done? Are you gonna bank on the possibility that none of them told third parties that you're unaware of and your lie may not hold up forever? We're talking about a lot of footsoldiers here, the ones who killed Delacroix, killed the lords and all their men, who conducted the execution. Maybe I'm being too risk-averse but I think the safer option is just to stick with Delacroix (for now at least) and execute the lords. She's already built up an existing power base and she's managed to remain in power and remove many of her enemies until now.

For the two mains points, there are going to be alot of dead people in this kingdom by the end of the year. Palace guards will of course need to be replaced by my personal regiments, the executions will need to be handled by soldiers and officers loyal to me, and a massive campaign to gain support from commoners by presenting myself as a friendly and humble servant of the king will be undertaken. As for her allies, well I said there was going to be alot of dead people.

As a character in a famous TV show once said about commoners - "they don't care what game the high lords play". Alienating all of Delacroix's supporters, all the main noble houses, basically your own army by slaughtering a substantial number of your own troops who witnessed your deceit and could testify to it and spread the word, and then banking on the common people loving you so much that you stay in power, really sounds like a plan doomed to failure.

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

At that position, my utmost goal is to try become the Hand of the King, or at least somewhere on that line. I mean I have an army, I can stack the court with my men, and frankly I'm a better, more righteous, and more reputable leader than that fox.

1. Off with her head - Pretty straightforward. My next task will then to organize the different noble factions and army loyalty. Maybe I'll succeed, but there's a likely chance of this.

2. Off with their head - She's a smart woman, and I don't care about nobility. She owed a great deal to me and let's be honest she's also scared to me. With the various nobles dead, there will be empty spaces for me to fill with my men. The next game will be me vs. Mrs Delacroix, as I'll have to watch my back.

3. Off with everyone's head - The one I picked. Side with Delacroix, kill all the noble faction leaders, but detain her and prevent her to meet the King. Spread rumours that she is an evil slanderer who turned good men against eachother and that she sought to overthrow the King and become Queen. Wait and meet the King when he arrived. Then I, the righteous Knight, saves the day and the King, she is tried in a closed trial for conspiracy and witchcraft while I performed a burial ritual honoring the fallen nobles. The court is stacked with my men instead of my friends (and friend + politics = not friend, especially considering that I'm going to be a dictator).

In the mean time,

4. I'll befriend and flatter with my will-be puppet King, and make sure he has a very opulent lifestyle holding wine liquor on one hand and hot girls on the other. Maybe I can even form a parliament (stacked with my men), influence who will be the next crown prince, mentor him and maybe befriend the crown prince with my son. I will also change my position's name to Reichkanzler, grew a beard and get a fancy uniform.

[Andsed]

My answer remains the same. Arrest everyone in the room. As others have stated the lords seem suspicious and Delacroix is way manipulative for me to trust her. I will arrest them all the lords for treason and Delacroix as she is accused of some heavy things that need to be investigated. Then when the king comes back U explain the situation and become the next hand of the king.

[Heloin]

For the two mains points, there are going to be alot of dead people in this kingdom by the end of the year. Palace guards will of course need to be replaced by my personal regiments, the executions will need to be handled by soldiers and officers loyal to me, and a massive campaign to gain support from commoners by presenting myself as a friendly and humble servant of the king will be undertaken. As for her allies, well I said there was going to be alot of dead people.

As a character in a famous TV show once said about commoners - "they don't care what game the high lords play". Alienating all of Delacroix's supporters, all the main noble houses, basically your own army by slaughtering a substantial number of your own troops who witnessed your deceit and could testify to it and spread the word, and then banking on the common people loving you so much that you stay in power, really sounds like a plan doomed to failure.

The common people's love? No that's just to keep them from revolting while I kill off the nobles. And I wouldn't need to be killing my own army, just royal guards in the capital and if any of the lords have personal forces them too. Most of my- I mean the Kings Royal Army should be fine and sitting pretty willing to support the call of their King who thinks the nobles betrayed them.

[Lunas Legion]

Plan remains the same. Arrest everyone, put them on trial, become Hand of the King while the very lengthy trial process happens, await results.