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by Imperium Anglorum » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:36 pm
by Kyoki Chudoku » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:57 pm
by Hatzisland » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:35 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:Hatzisland wrote:
Maybe you should invest a little more into education then, instead of legalizing drugs.
"Alternatively, you can recognize that drug use is rarely a choice made by the rational, but by the desperate, and that penalizing people for their mistakes without requisite support makes them more likely to re-offend, thus costing your justice system a great deal.
"Though, if I were you, I would worry less about our education program and more about your own."
by The New Nordic Union » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:36 pm
Hatzisland wrote:Legalizing first-time theft will allow crime rates to skyrocket.
by Hatzisland » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:02 pm
by Separatist Peoples » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:40 pm
Hatzisland wrote:Separatist Peoples wrote:"Alternatively, you can recognize that drug use is rarely a choice made by the rational, but by the desperate, and that penalizing people for their mistakes without requisite support makes them more likely to re-offend, thus costing your justice system a great deal.
"Though, if I were you, I would worry less about our education program and more about your own."
Not true. You can make the same argument about theft. Theft is done by the desperate. Legalizing first-time theft will allow crime rates to skyrocket. Punishment is the answer in a significant portion of cases. Enough that this proposition deserves full and overwhelming opposition.
by Hatzisland » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:29 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:Hatzisland wrote:
Not true. You can make the same argument about theft. Theft is done by the desperate. Legalizing first-time theft will allow crime rates to skyrocket. Punishment is the answer in a significant portion of cases. Enough that this proposition deserves full and overwhelming opposition.
"Theft isn't addictive. Theft doesn't drive you to commit more crimes. You've a piss-poor analogy, ambassador."Hatzisland wrote:
Very funny. But I actually disagree. Even if you legalized first-offense theft, crime rates would still skyrocket, at least in my opinion.
"Because? How would permitting first time offenders to receive rehabilitation rather than besmirching their records increase crime?"
by Separatist Peoples » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:34 pm
Hatzisland wrote:Separatist Peoples wrote:
"Theft isn't addictive. Theft doesn't drive you to commit more crimes. You've a piss-poor analogy, ambassador."
"Because? How would permitting first time offenders to receive rehabilitation rather than besmirching their records increase crime?"
A) Any crime can be like a drug. Do you think the serial killers weren't addicted to killing? Same thing here
and
B) The abuse of the system would be terrible.
by Sierra Lyricalia » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:41 pm
by American Pere Housh » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:45 pm
by Separatist Peoples » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:48 pm
American Pere Housh wrote:I can understand wanting to legalize marijuana but why would anybody legalize cocaine, heroin, meth or any other narcotics.
by Sierra Lyricalia » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:49 pm
American Pere Housh wrote:I can understand wanting to legalize marijuana but why would anybody legalize cocaine, heroin, meth or any other narcotics.
by Aclion » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:31 pm
by Kowani » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:49 pm
Aclion wrote:"Because legalizing all recreational drugs will open the doors to research into less harmful alternatives."
by Falcania » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:42 am
American Pere Housh wrote:I can understand wanting to legalize marijuana but why would anybody legalize cocaine, heroin, meth or any other narcotics.
by Araraukar » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:11 am
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Falcania » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:09 am
Araraukar wrote:OOC: Everyone talks of drug use being a victimless crime, but it really isn't most of the time in Real Life. People get stoned/high and go driving, or attack someone (drunk fights happen all the time) or steal things to finance their habit or get raped when out of it, etc., etc. But consider cases where actual endangerment of another individual happens directly because of the use of drugs; should a pregnant or breastfeeding mother be allowed to pass their addiction off onto her baby? What about not taking care of - depriving of food, shelter or other fundamental right - of a child too young to fend for themselves? These happen all the time in RL, so they can be assumed to happen in NS too.
And what about the drugs that are physically damaging (think corrosive damage) even on first use, or which can cause serious complications (psychosis) as a design rather than accident? Can such people be left without treatment and just be shoved into rehabilitation?
And my continued question/issue, can you deprive a first-timer of their liberty to put them into a controlled environment for the duration of the detox/rehab? I haven't gotten a reply in IC so trying in OOC.
by Bananaistan » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:51 am
Maowi wrote:
- DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, 'recreational drugs' as substances other than food taken recreationally for their psychoactive effects;
- MANDATES that member nations in which the use of recreational drugs is currently illegal may not punish or criminalize people found, for the first time, using recreational drugs (or proven to be possessing them with the sole intent of using them), but must provide or make available rehabilitative services helping them end their drug use, although the illegal drugs may be confiscated from the user;
- CLARIFIES that people found committing crimes under the influence of recreational drugs in member nations in which the use of recreational drugs is illegal may be punished (for the crimes committed only) but must also be provided with rehabilitative services if they have not been found using recreational drugs before;
- FURTHER CLARIFIES that member nations may punish people trying to force other people to take recreational drugs without their consent;
- ORDERS companies legally selling recreational drugs to clearly state the ingredients of their products on the packaging of said products, in the principal language(s) spoken by people in the place of sale. The list of ingredients must be easily legible to the naked eye.
by Araraukar » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:32 am
Falcania wrote:*snip*
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Sierra Lyricalia » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:21 am
Araraukar wrote:Falcania wrote:*snip*
OOC: 1. Araraukar has banned alcohol too. 2. Endangering the life and wellbeing of a child is a crime against WA laws, yet that's now somehow not punishable simply because the user is a "recreational" user (many of who are behaviourally if not physically addicted) of a forbidden substance getting caught for the first time?
by American Pere Housh » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:25 am
by Falcania » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:52 am
Araraukar wrote:Falcania wrote:*snip*
OOC: 1. Araraukar has banned alcohol too. 2. Endangering the life and wellbeing of a child is a crime against WA laws, yet that's now somehow not punishable simply because the user is a "recreational" user (many of who are behaviourally if not physically addicted) of a forbidden substance getting caught for the first time?
by Sierra Lyricalia » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:42 am
American Pere Housh wrote:Maybe there is a reason that cocaine, heroin,meth and other narcotics are illegal. It is because they are deadly to use and make and they are addictive to use. Once you start using them, it is hard to stop. I have seen people on these drugs and it has ruined people's lives.
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:"This entire discussion is asinine. Reducing punishment for simple use or possession of drugs lowers drug addiction and use rates, and reduces incidental or tangential crimes, including violence. Period. Arguing otherwise requires that you ignore literally all of history. 'Beware of all those in whom the urge to punish is strong.' You people gotta get some new hobbies."
OOC: It's really not that hard.
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:American Pere Housh wrote:I can understand wanting to legalize marijuana but why would anybody legalize cocaine, heroin, meth or any other narcotics.
"Because factually it reduces the harm that they do to people more than prohibition does. As well as generally being less expensive to society. Prohibition is an utter failure, ambassador. Also what Bell just said."
Aclion wrote:"Because legalizing all recreational drugs will open the doors to research into less harmful alternatives."
by Separatist Peoples » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:27 am
American Pere Housh wrote:Maybe there is a reason that cocaine, heroin,meth and other narcotics are illegal. It is because they are deadly to use and make and they are addictive to use. Once you start using them, it is hard to stop. I have seen people on these drugs and it has ruined people's lives.
by Bananaistan » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:47 am
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