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[LAST CALL] - In Limbo

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Sacara
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[LAST CALL] - In Limbo

Postby Sacara » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:58 pm

Based on Pogaria's suggestion in the Writers' Block.
[Title] In Limbo
[Desc] In a high profile case in recent headlines, the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Immigration Services (@@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@IS) tracked down an asylum seeker to a place of worship within @@CAPITAL@@. In accordance with an old law that was never rescinded, @@DEMONYMINITIALS@@IS refuse to enter any places of worship while they’re in service, and the clergy within are now on their thirtieth straight hour of holding services.
[Validity] allows religion

[option] "This is a pure and blatant attempt to undermine our law enforcement," snaps the Secretary of the @@DEMONYM@@IS, pacing around the room with a bright red face. "We cannot allow for these folks to take advantage of our system, and we need to teach them a lesson, now! You must give the go for my forces to storm the place of worship and apprehend the suspect. While we’re at it, we ought to arrest those who aided the illegal immigrant, too. No one should get away with aiding and abetting a criminal, no matter their religion."
[effect] even Violet cannot save you in @@NAME@@

[option] "Can you imagine how bad this would make the @@TYPE@@ look on an international level?" counters a clergy member of the church at the center of attention. "If you stormed the church with your guns a-blazing, every nation in @@REGION@@ would condemn you. It would absolutely be catastrophic to your public image. "
[effect] @@LEADER@@ really likes to "wait and see"
Last edited by Sacara on Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:25 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:22 am

Is there any such custom in real life?

I know that many would consider it good manners to avoid interrupting a service if possible, and I know that cops have been criticised for doing so in the past, but I would have thought that any reasonable commentator would have said that waiting a short while is polite, but it'd be unreasonable to expect anyone to wait 30 hours to execute their duties.

Maybe it'd more believable if while the policeman was waiting for a service to finish (having been asked to wait out front), the illegal snuck out the back of the church. Then the question would be whether the policeman should have delayed the arrest at all.

Also, by making it something that has already happened rather than an in media res situation, it becomes more believably something that LEADER might be involved in.
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:52 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Is there any such custom in real life?
The [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_asylum[/url](mentioned in the effect line of [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=88&start=25#836]#836[/url] 2/3, although it's not an accurate representation of the historical reasoning for such rights, and isn't exactly the point of the issue) is something similar, and doesn't even require an ongoing service.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:03 am

Aware of the right of asylum, and indeed of the claiming of sanctuary, but those are distinct things from what is being discussed here, which is the interruption of a religious service.

This case in 2015 is the closest I could find to that specific circumstance: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /71971422/

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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:56 am

Heres the link to the actual article which this is based off of: http://time.com/5466375/dutch-church-service-immigrant-deportation/.

Dutch law prohibits police from entering churches while they’re in service. I should also note the actual church has been doing this since October IRL.
Last edited by Sacara on Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:06 am

Fascinating! So it actually IS a thing IRL.

I guess in the issue you could refer to it as "using a loophole in an obscure but never rescinded old law", as that looks to be the real life situation.

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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:22 am

Love the two-option issue...

though, hypothetically, if you really wanted to, you could have a third option to blow up the church and blame terrorists... ;)
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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:25 am

Thank you, Jutsa. For now, I'll keep it at a two-option issue. Personally, I think I should keep the issue as it is now and keep it during the actual event and not afterward.

Still taking more suggestions, though.
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:31 pm

@@DENONYMINTIAL@@IS? What's that?

In any case, there were medieval laws about that would protect accused criminals entering a church, irrespective of whether or not there was currently a service. Maybe change the focus to that. I was planning compiling a list of issue ideas of issues which I will not write, and the law of sanctuary was one of them. You beat me to it :) Does this apply to all religious instituions or only @@FAITH@@?
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Postby Far Tholk » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:04 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:@@DENONYMINTIAL@@IS? What's that?
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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:27 pm

Perhaps this could be made slightly more clear by adding "(@@DEMONYMINITIALS@@IS)" directly after "@@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Immigration Services"
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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:37 pm

Jutsa wrote:Perhaps this could be made slightly more clear by adding "(@@DEMONYMINITIALS@@IS)" directly after "@@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Immigration Services"
Done.

Still taking more feedback. :)
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:38 am

Jutsa wrote:Love the two-option issue...

though, hypothetically, if you really wanted to, you could have a third option to blow up the church and blame terrorists... ;)


That would be deliciously insane!

Go with your instincts though, Sacara.

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Bears Armed
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Postby Bears Armed » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:31 am

Jutsa wrote:though, hypothetically, if you really wanted to, you could have a third option to blow up the church and blame terrorists... ;)

Maybe even with the speaker as "@@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@ Herod, your Head of Internal State Security", who makes a similar suggestion in issue 1120, option 2?
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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:08 am

Already mentioned that option to him, funnily enough, but having the same character'd be an interesting possibility. :rofl:
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:29 pm

I love this (somebody's been reading the news).

Only thing I'm surprised about is that the first effect line has it be Violet. I think in this case putting in God is the best approach. The faith of the church in question is never mentioned (and is, frankly, an unimportant triviality), and with the current validity it is entirely possible for this to occur in a nation that has banned the Order of Violet. In addition, having it be God in the effect line would be an entirely warranted response to the dilemma in question, and would also be more friendly towards new players (because they won't suddenly be assailed with this word that will seem bizarrely out of context to somebody who's never received an issue mentioning Violetism. I swear the Violetists use temples anyway.
Last edited by Chan Island on Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:53 pm

I thought of this, but I didn’t know if it was acceptable. I’d much rather use God.

Can an editor give input on whether it’s acceptable?
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Postby Australian rePublic » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:31 am

I would change "church" to "place of worship". More generic
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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:I would change "church" to "place of worship". More generic
Easy fix.

Still taking feedback.
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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:34 pm

Bump to get back on the first page.
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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:49 am

Bump to put on last call.

I'm happy with the way this has turned out.
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:53 pm

The law of sanctuary doesn't care about whether there's currently a litergy or not
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Hediacrana
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Postby Hediacrana » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:45 pm

Two observations:
1) I was rather expecting one of the clergy to be the speaker in option 2. That, or the immigrant themselves.
2) Where the introduction of issues usually is quite neutrally worded, the term 'illegal immigrant' is rather typical for speakers with immigration-critical views. 'Asylum seeker' is the more objective term (for instance, the family in the RL issue you based this on was legally seeking asylum and had entered the country legally).
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