Dumb Ideologies wrote:Some of us have friends among those who have gone.
Do not gloatpost, I am soft.
I am sorry. I tried not to make it sound like I was gloating and clearly I failed.
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by Liriena » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:28 pm
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Some of us have friends among those who have gone.
Do not gloatpost, I am soft.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Western Vale Confederacy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:32 pm
Liriena wrote:Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
I agree with ideals that are traditionally considered right-wing such as family values and national pride, but some of its more extreme beliefs...I just cannot bring myself to believe 'em.
I don't really agree with either of those ideals at all, and that might have a lot to do with me growing up in a society where I could see the terrible, negative consequences of both. National pride got us into the Falklands War, one of the most pointless and embarrassing wastes of Argentine lives ever. It also got turned into a propaganda tool for some very awful people (see, how our last dictatorship manipulated national pride through the 1978 football world cup). And as for right-wing family values... well, let's just say I wouldn't wish an Opus Dei upbringing on my worst enemy.
However, I do understand the appeal of both. We live in an era of increasing social atomization and alienation, meaning that many of us struggle with the feeling like our existence is very solitary and has no greater meaning. National pride and family values are simple, comfortable solutions to this problem, considering that they are traditional, built into our cultural hegemony and thus easier to embrace than a more forward-thinking, emancipatory alternative. I can empathize with people, specially older people, who can feel the stress provoked by isolation and yearn for the olden days of closely knit family structures and community life.
by Liriena » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:36 pm
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:Liriena wrote:I don't really agree with either of those ideals at all, and that might have a lot to do with me growing up in a society where I could see the terrible, negative consequences of both. National pride got us into the Falklands War, one of the most pointless and embarrassing wastes of Argentine lives ever. It also got turned into a propaganda tool for some very awful people (see, how our last dictatorship manipulated national pride through the 1978 football world cup). And as for right-wing family values... well, let's just say I wouldn't wish an Opus Dei upbringing on my worst enemy.
However, I do understand the appeal of both. We live in an era of increasing social atomization and alienation, meaning that many of us struggle with the feeling like our existence is very solitary and has no greater meaning. National pride and family values are simple, comfortable solutions to this problem, considering that they are traditional, built into our cultural hegemony and thus easier to embrace than a more forward-thinking, emancipatory alternative. I can empathize with people, specially older people, who can feel the stress provoked by isolation and yearn for the olden days of closely knit family structures and community life.
I grew up in a Portuguese family, and one of the core values of a Portuguese person is that, family.
Hence my strong belief that the family is one of the most important cohesive units of society.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Autarkheia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:37 pm
by Silver Commonwealth » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:38 pm
Autarkheia wrote:Not gloating, but I won't miss Mardla. Not because he was an open bigot (though he proudly said he was) but because he was just really, really frustrating to discuss anything with. The kind of online arguments that are like pulling teeth, you know?
✥ ᴛʜᴇ ɴᴇᴡꜱ ✥
- ꜱɴɴ
- ᴀʀᴄʜɪᴠᴇ
✉ ʀᴀɴᴅᴏᴍ ✉
- ᴀᴅᴍɪɴɪꜱᴛʀᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
- ꜱᴛᴏʀɪᴇꜱ
✪ ʟᴇᴀᴅᴇʀꜱʜɪᴘ ✪
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- ᴏᴛʜᴇʀ ʟᴇᴀᴅᴇʀꜱ
≛ ᴘᴇᴏᴘʟᴇ ≛
- ꜱᴏᴄɪᴇᴛʏ
- ꜱᴛᴜꜰꜰ&ɢᴏᴏᴅꜱ
⚒ ᴛʜᴇ ɴᴀᴛɪᴏɴᴀʟ ᴡᴏʀʟᴅ ʀᴇᴘᴜʙʟɪᴄ ᴏꜰ ꜱɪʟᴠᴇʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴏɴᴡᴇᴀʟᴛʜ ⚒
|☐ʜᴏᴍᴇ☐|❖ꜱᴄ ɪɴ ʜᴏɪ4❖|★ꜱᴄ'ꜱ ʀᴀᴅɪᴏ&ʟᴏᴄᴀᴛɪᴏɴꜱ★|❇ᴄᴏɴꜱᴛɪᴛᴜᴛɪᴏɴ❇|✧ᴍɪʟɪᴛᴀʀʏ✧|✝ᴍᴀᴘꜱ&ɪɴꜰᴏ✝|☢ʜɪꜱᴛᴏʀʏ☢|
⚖ ᴀꜱ ᴛʜᴇ ᴍᴏᴅᴇʀᴀᴛᴇꜱ ᴀʀᴏᴜɴᴅ ᴛʜᴇᴍ ꜰᴇʟʟ, ʀᴀᴅɪᴄᴀʟɪᴢᴀᴛɪᴏɴ ᴏꜰ ꜱᴄ'ꜱ ᴅᴇᴍᴏᴄʀᴀᴄʏ ꜱᴜᴘᴘᴏʀᴛᴇʀꜱ ʙᴇᴄᴀᴍᴇ ᴀ ᴍᴀᴛᴛᴇʀ ᴏꜰ ꜱᴜʀᴠɪᴠᴀʟ ☠
by Western Vale Confederacy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:39 pm
Liriena wrote:Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
I grew up in a Portuguese family, and one of the core values of a Portuguese person is that, family.
Hence my strong belief that the family is one of the most important cohesive units of society.
Ngl, there's a lot to criticize about traditionalist ideas of family and the conventional nuclear family, but when you've got a strong, closely knit and mostly healthy family dynamic going, it's wonderful.
by Liriena » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:40 pm
Autarkheia wrote:Not gloating, but I won't miss Mardla. Not because he was an open bigot (though he proudly said he was) but because he was just really, really frustrating to discuss anything with. The kind of online arguments that are like pulling teeth, you know?
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Liriena » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:41 pm
Silver Commonwealth wrote:Autarkheia wrote:Not gloating, but I won't miss Mardla. Not because he was an open bigot (though he proudly said he was) but because he was just really, really frustrating to discuss anything with. The kind of online arguments that are like pulling teeth, you know?
Wait, what happened to Mardla?
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Dumb Ideologies » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:00 pm
by Genivaria » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:01 pm
by Liriena » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:04 pm
Genivaria wrote:In an attempt to steer the thread away from gloating I ask this.
Do you think that the left can make capitalism work for the good of all and that some aspects are worth preserving? Or do you think that capitalism is inherently harmful and must be done away with entirely? I'd support the former position and say that the tendency of capitalism to create quality products is admirable and worth preserving, the problem is that sometimes that quality product can be so expensive to produce that it becomes inaccessible to many.
This is an accurate description of the American healthcare system imo.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Western Vale Confederacy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:05 pm
Genivaria wrote:In an attempt to steer the thread away from gloating I ask this.
Do you think that the left can make capitalism work for the good of all and that some aspects are worth preserving? Or do you think that capitalism is inherently harmful and must be done away with entirely?
I'd support the former position and say that the tendency of capitalism to create quality products is admirable and worth preserving, the problem is that sometimes that quality product can be so expensive to produce that it becomes inaccessible to many.
This is an accurate description of the American healthcare system imo.
by Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:20 pm
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:I agree with ideals that are traditionally considered right-wing such as family values and national pride, but some of its more extreme beliefs...I just cannot bring myself to believe 'em.
[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]
by Western Vale Confederacy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:24 pm
Democratic Communist Federation wrote:Western Vale Confederacy wrote:I agree with ideals that are traditionally considered right-wing such as family values and national pride, but some of its more extreme beliefs...I just cannot bring myself to believe 'em.
IMO, the Right has claimed ownership over good values. Roy Bhaskar, a libertarian Marxist, argued that those values are better understood as left-wing moral realism. Many of the values which has been claimed by social conservatives have been placed into a Leftist context by Bhaskar.
by Proctopeo » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:56 pm
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Mardla is a friend who has been very good to me despite political differences, someone who has shown integrity on multiple occasions over the years during cliquey bullshit here and elsewhere.
I'm not quite so attached to some of the others, but I think that they were spot on over the recent issue (which has lowered my opinion of a number of other forum regulars considerably) and their absence is sad because I don't want the RWDT to die or be filled only by drive-by Hitlerists.
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
IMO, the Right has claimed ownership over good values. Roy Bhaskar, a libertarian Marxist, argued that those values are better understood as left-wing moral realism. Many of the values which has been claimed by social conservatives have been placed into a Leftist context by Bhaskar.
Okay, this makes no sense...
You blame conservatives for claiming good values, and instantly proceed to go "ackshually, it's leftism that did 'em!"...
by Autarkheia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:29 pm
I used to be a lot further left and would have said capitalism needs to be abolished, but now I don't think that is a realistic option. Now I would say that a mixed economy with more socialistic features would be best.Genivaria wrote:Do you think that the left can make capitalism work for the good of all and that some aspects are worth preserving? Or do you think that capitalism is inherently harmful and must be done away with entirely?
I'd support the former position and say that the tendency of capitalism to create quality products is admirable and worth preserving, the problem is that sometimes that quality product can be so expensive to produce that it becomes inaccessible to many.
This is an accurate description of the American healthcare system imo.
by Liriena » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:30 pm
Autarkheia wrote:I used to be a lot further left and would have said capitalism needs to be abolished, but now I don't think that is a realistic option. Now I would say that a mixed economy with more socialistic features would be best.Genivaria wrote:Do you think that the left can make capitalism work for the good of all and that some aspects are worth preserving? Or do you think that capitalism is inherently harmful and must be done away with entirely?
I'd support the former position and say that the tendency of capitalism to create quality products is admirable and worth preserving, the problem is that sometimes that quality product can be so expensive to produce that it becomes inaccessible to many.
This is an accurate description of the American healthcare system imo.
Capitalism has good things about it, but it is amoral because it is profit-driven.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:43 pm
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:Okay, this makes no sense...
You blame conservatives for claiming good values, and instantly proceed to go "ackshually, it's leftism that did 'em!"...
[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]
by Western Vale Confederacy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:45 pm
Liriena wrote:Autarkheia wrote:I used to be a lot further left and would have said capitalism needs to be abolished, but now I don't think that is a realistic option. Now I would say that a mixed economy with more socialistic features would be best.
Capitalism has good things about it, but it is amoral because it is profit-driven.
My basic stance is "capitalism with continuous democratic socialist reforms in the short term, but with an anarchist society as the long-term goal". I'm not as convinced as some friends of mine are that the revolutionary approach is viable right now.
by Aellex » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:52 pm
Liriena wrote:
I've been catching up on it all. Nap deserved what he got, and Mardla was unequivocally a bigot.
That being said, thanks for confirming the axiom that right-libs will always side with fashies and reactionaries.
by Northern Davincia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:56 pm
Aellex wrote:Liriena wrote:
I've been catching up on it all. Nap deserved what he got, and Mardla was unequivocally a bigot.
That being said, thanks for confirming the axiom that right-libs will always side with fashies and reactionaries.
And confirming the axiom that left-libs will always side with pedophiles truly makes that a glorious victory and leave you standing on the moral high-ground once you're done vilipending those dirty right-libs for daring to be disgusted by kiddie diddling.
Or maybe that's a bigoted and age-ophobic term too? We gotta call it "ephebophilia" rather to make sure people who defend prostituting kids don't feel shocked?
Despite all our clashing, I quite like you Liri so know that I'm not saying that at you in particular however Nap really didn't deserve what he got and he indeed did nothing wrong.
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."
by Western Vale Confederacy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:59 pm
Northern Davincia wrote:Aellex wrote:And confirming the axiom that left-libs will always side with pedophiles truly makes that a glorious victory and leave you standing on the moral high-ground once you're done vilipending those dirty right-libs for daring to be disgusted by kiddie diddling.
Or maybe that's a bigoted and age-ophobic term too? We gotta call it "ephebophilia" rather to make sure people who defend prostituting kids don't feel shocked?
Despite all our clashing, I quite like you Liri so know that I'm not saying that at you in particular however Nap really didn't deserve what he got and he indeed did nothing wrong.
Right-libs are making progress with driving out pedophiles from our ranks, but it's a recent advancement.
by Valrifell » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:00 pm
Aellex wrote:Liriena wrote:
I've been catching up on it all. Nap deserved what he got, and Mardla was unequivocally a bigot.
That being said, thanks for confirming the axiom that right-libs will always side with fashies and reactionaries.
And confirming the axiom that left-libs will always side with pedophiles truly makes that a glorious victory and leave you standing on the moral high-ground once you're done vilipending those dirty right-libs for daring to be disgusted by kiddie diddling.
Or maybe that's a bigoted and age-ophobic term too? We gotta call it "ephebophilia" rather to make sure people who defend prostituting kids don't feel shocked?
Despite all our clashing, I quite like you Liri so know that I'm not saying that at you in particular however Nap really didn't deserve what he got and he indeed did nothing wrong.
by Northern Davincia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:02 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."
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