The Christian Discussion thread IX: Pelagius Rising.

[Salus Maior]

*huffs angrily* he would make the brown people be evil.

To be fair, the Orcs/Axis are the evil people. The Easterlings/Ottomans are more mercenaries that agree to fight on their side.


Edit: and actually I'm conflating two peoples. The Easterlings came from Rhun, and are based north eastern Europeans, think Caucuses, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Fin etc.

The peoples based on the Ottomans were the Umbar.

Well, this is also something he denies.

Tolkien vehemently denies that his writings, the characters in them, and the peoples in them were analogies for real life things or expressions of his political opinions.

[Tarsonis]

To be fair, the Orcs/Axis are the evil people. The Easterlings/Ottomans are more mercenaries that agree to fight on their side.


Edit: and actually I'm conflating two peoples. The Easterlings came from Rhun, and are based north eastern Europeans, think Caucuses, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Fin etc.

The peoples based on the Ottomans were the Umbar.

Well, this is also something he denies.

Tolkien vehemently denies that his writings, the characters in them, and the peoples in them were analogies for real life things or expressions of his political opinions.

Of course he did, because he's committed to purity of the craft unlike writers today who can't wait to tell you their political inspirations.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

The peoples based on the Ottomans were the Umbar.

Okay, I was gonna pretend to get offended about the brown people being pirates but then I remembered the Barbary pirates. Well played, Tolkien. Well played.

[Tarsonis]

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2018 ... -marriage/


Thoughts?

[United Muscovite Nations]

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2018/06/kallistos-ware-comes-out-for-homosexual-marriage/


Thoughts?

It's not about whether celibacy is a burden, the Christian life itself is a burden that must be undertaken. The spirit of making everyone's lives easier will take away spiritual struggle, and with it, the faith as a whole.

[Genivaria]

*huffs angrily* he would make the brown people be evil.

To be fair, the Orcs/Axis are the evil people. The Easterlings/Ottomans are more mercenaries that agree to fight on their side.


Edit: and actually I'm conflating two peoples. The Easterlings came from Rhun, and are based north eastern Europeans, think Caucuses, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Fin etc.

The peoples based on the Ottomans were the Umbar.

There was a quote about an Easterling soldier iirc.

“It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would rather have stayed there in peace.”

No such thought was ever spared for an orc.

Anway I'll stop thread-jacking a Christian thread now.

[Tarsonis]

To be fair, the Orcs/Axis are the evil people. The Easterlings/Ottomans are more mercenaries that agree to fight on their side.


Edit: and actually I'm conflating two peoples. The Easterlings came from Rhun, and are based north eastern Europeans, think Caucuses, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Fin etc.

The peoples based on the Ottomans were the Umbar.

There was a quote about an Easterling soldier iirc.

“It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would rather have stayed there in peace.”

No such thought was ever spared for an orc.

Anway I'll stop thread-jacking a Christian thread now.

Well orcs are inherently evil, elves corrupted by Morgoth. If we want to go with the Christian allegories, orcs are demons, minions of the evil one Morgoth, corrupted from the pure elves/angles they used to be. It’s a story with absolute good and bad guys. There’s no deeply complex villains with sympathetic stories. They’re evil for the sake of evil really. The Music of Ainar guides the fates of all beings good, evil, and neutral. Only men can determine their win fate beyond the music. Essentially, Orcs are evil because they have to be. It’s their nature to be.




As an aside, there are a few who could be considered sympathetic antagonists, but they’re more tragic victims than villains. Boromir is seduced by the ring and his fathers high expectations. Both Denathor and Saruman were good men, but through the pelantir had their minds corrupted by Sauron.

[Lower Nubia]

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2018/06/kallistos-ware-comes-out-for-homosexual-marriage/


Thoughts?

Another classic opinion bought to you by individualism: “My perception is the greater decider for truth!”.

[Salus Maior]

The peoples based on the Ottomans were the Umbar.

Okay, I was gonna pretend to get offended about the brown people being pirates but then I remembered the Barbary pirates. Well played, Tolkien. Well played.

To be honest, I see the men who side with Morgoth/Sauron in Tokien's writings to be a non-specific nod of the West's struggle with Eastern powers through the ages (in the books it's often stated that the West is at odds with the East, the East wants to conquer the West) which is something that's echoed throughout European history. Like the Greeks and Persians, Romans and Persians, Romans and Huns, Christians vs. Muslims, Ottomans vs. Austria, NATO vs. Warsaw Pact, etc.

Which is something that's ingrained in European and Western consciousness.

Also, as an aside, I'm starting RCIA soon.

[Salus Maior]

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2018/06/kallistos-ware-comes-out-for-homosexual-marriage/


Thoughts?

Another classic opinion bought to you by individualism: “My perception is the greater decider for truth!”.

Everyone's favorite.

[Lord Dominator]

Okay, I was gonna pretend to get offended about the brown people being pirates but then I remembered the Barbary pirates. Well played, Tolkien. Well played.

To be honest, I see the men who side with Morgoth/Sauron in Tokien's writings to be a non-specific nod of the West's struggle with Eastern powers through the ages (in the books it's often stated that the West is at odds with the East, the East wants to conquer the West) which is something that's echoed throughout European history. Like the Greeks and Persians, Romans and Persians, Romans and Huns, Christians vs. Muslims, Ottomans vs. Austria, NATO vs. Warsaw Pact, etc.

Which is something that's ingrained in European and Western consciousness.

Also, as an aside, I'm starting RCIA soon.

I feel vaguely offended (on the behalf of others) that you didn't put in 'Mongols vs. Everyone Else'

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Romans and Persians

The Romans attacked first >_>

[Lord Dominator]

Romans and Persians

The Romans attacked first >_>

The Ides of March was an outside job

[Sahansahiye Iran]

The Romans attacked first >_>

The Ides of March was an outside job

Publius Quinctilius Varus was secretly a German agent.

[Stonok]

This is probably heresy, but has anyone ever considered a Discord server for the regulars of these threads? Or is it imperative that it remain soley a feature in the NS forums for the sake of tradition?

[The Alexanderians]

This is probably heresy, but has anyone ever considered a Discord server for the regulars of these threads? Or is it imperative that it remain soley a feature in the NS forums for the sake of tradition?

There probably is one, there's one for the RWDT already. It likely happened here too.

[Ieskarios]

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2018/06/kallistos-ware-comes-out-for-homosexual-marriage/


Thoughts?

An English convert to Orthodoxy telling the church to leave the gays alone. I can't say I'm shocked.

[The Alexanderians]

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2018/06/kallistos-ware-comes-out-for-homosexual-marriage/


Thoughts?

An English convert to Orthodoxy telling the church to leave the gays alone. I can't say I'm shocked.

There is some truth to the statement that Christians don't have to treat a given group of sinners like crap. Nor do we have to condon the behaviour either...but still.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2018/06/kallistos-ware-comes-out-for-homosexual-marriage/


Thoughts?

An English convert to Orthodoxy telling the church to leave the gays alone. I can't say I'm shocked.

Does the fact that he's a convert somehow give him less credence?

[Lux Pulchrae]

You guys think Luther would've regretted what he did once he saw what the Protestant Reformation became and the splintering of Christianity?

[Sahansahiye Iran]

You guys think Luther would've regretted what he did once he saw what the Protestant Reformation became and the splintering of Christianity?

Christianity was already splintered long before the Reformation, no?

[Stonok]

You guys think Luther would've regretted what he did once he saw what the Protestant Reformation became and the splintering of Christianity?

I don't think he would've regretted taking a stand against what he saw as ungodly, but he would likely be furious to see that Protestantism became so anarchic in terms of doctrine and factions.

[Lux Pulchrae]

I don't think he would've regretted taking a stand against what he saw as ungodly, but he would likely be furious to see that Protestantism became so anarchic in terms of doctrine and factions.

Sure, what was ungodly were the actions and attitudes of the men at the time, but what has always remained is the Church and he went against it all when there could've surely been a better way than just starting his own church.

[Ieskarios]

An English convert to Orthodoxy telling the church to leave the gays alone. I can't say I'm shocked.

Does the fact that he's a convert somehow give him less credence?

Nope, I'm a convert to Orthodoxy as well. The conversion wasn't my point, my point more or less concerned that he was an English convert (especially a former Anglican like myself). The English people have been one of the main pushers of LGBT stuff for some time now, and I'm saying that it's not shocking that a former English Anglican turned Orthodox would have a sort of pro-LGBT slant since the modern Anglican church also does.

[Nordengrund]

I don't think he would've regretted taking a stand against what he saw as ungodly, but he would likely be furious to see that Protestantism became so anarchic in terms of doctrine and factions.

Sure, what was ungodly were the actions and attitudes of the men at the time, but what has always remained is the Church and he went against it all when there could've surely been a better way than just starting his own church.

He didn’t originally seek to start his own church. He wanted to remain Roman Catholic, but needed up having no other choice but to start his own.