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36th Amendment to the Constitution of Ireland - Abortion Ref

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Do you approve of the proposal to amend the Constitution contained in the undermentioned Bill?

Poll ended at Fri May 25, 2018 8:07 pm

Tá/Yes
59
61%
Níl/No
38
39%
 
Total votes : 97

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Ifreann
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36th Amendment to the Constitution of Ireland - Abortion Ref

Postby Ifreann » Thu May 24, 2018 8:07 pm

Final Declaration:
YES: 1,429,981 votes
NO: 723,632 votes

The 36th Amendment is passed and the Eighth is repealed.


In a few hours the polls will open and the people of Ireland will vote on the 36th Amendment to Bunreacht na hÉireann, the Constitution of Ireland. If passed, the 36th Amendment will repeal the 8th Amendment. The 8th Amendment, passed by referendum in 1983, enshrined in law the equal right to life of the unborn, thus prohibiting abortion. Further, the 36th Amendment will insert into the Constitution language permitting the government to pass legislation regulating the termination of pregnancies.

So, if passed, the 36th Amendment will make abortion legal, and subject to regulation by ordinary legislation. If rejected, abortion will remain illegal except when necessary to save the life of the mother, until and unless the Constitution is amended.

As one might imagine, the national conversation has been heated. The No campaign appeal to the humanity of the unborn, the cruelty of ending the lives of the innocent and helpless, especially if the reason for doing so if that they have Down Syndrome or some other disability. The Yes campaign point to what have become known as the "hard cases". Cases of women pregnant by rape, pregnant by incest, or carrying a baby with fatal foetal abnormalities, a baby which will survive the pregnancy but certainly die shortly after being born. The No campaigners say this will lead to abortion on demand. The Yes campaigners say that Irish abortions already happen, either in clinics in England or in Irish bedrooms by way of illegal abortion pills. Imagine any NSG abortion thread, add some uniquely Irish flairs, and blow it up to a country with over three million registered voters.

Perhaps the most perverse of the uniquely Irish flairs in this instance is the matter of women "travelling". I.e. travelling abroad to terminate their pregnancies. About a dozen women every day fly to England to terminate their pregnancies. Also, Ireland is a stupid country that doesn't facilitate postal voting for expatriates. So whenever there is an election or referendum, people have to come back to Ireland from all over the world to vote. And a huge referendum like this? A lot of people are coming home to vote. So even now, people coming home to vote to legalise abortion are crossing paths with women leaving the country because abortion isn't legal. It's a mad country.

Polling has been tight, with large numbers of undecided voters. I'm hopeful there'll be a Yes result, especially with the #hometovote-ers, but it's hardly a sure thing. I'll be voting Yes myself. I've been pro-choice for as long as I've been aware of the issue, and the better part of a decade and a half on NSG has only strengthened that belief.

I've put the English of the question that will appear on the ballots tomorrow as the poll title. People love a poll. The actual polls will close at 10pm BST(GMT+1), and the results can be expected a few hours later. More information about the referendum itself can be found at refcom2018.ie
Last edited by Ifreann on Sat May 26, 2018 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Galloism » Thu May 24, 2018 8:12 pm

Obviously right to self is of significant interest here. Also, I apologize, but this jumped out at me.

Also, Ireland is a stupid country that doesn't facilitate postal voting for expatriates. So whenever there is an election or referendum, people have to come back to Ireland from all over the world to vote. And a huge referendum like this? A lot of people are coming home to vote.


I’ve heard of medical tourism, but this is the first time I’ve heard of voting tourism.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu May 24, 2018 8:18 pm

Galloism wrote:Obviously right to self is of significant interest here. Also, I apologize, but this jumped out at me.

Also, Ireland is a stupid country that doesn't facilitate postal voting for expatriates. So whenever there is an election or referendum, people have to come back to Ireland from all over the world to vote. And a huge referendum like this? A lot of people are coming home to vote.


I’ve heard of medical tourism, but this is the first time I’ve heard of voting tourism.

It isn't tourism to go home.
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We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Thu May 24, 2018 8:21 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Galloism wrote:Obviously right to self is of significant interest here. Also, I apologize, but this jumped out at me.



I’ve heard of medical tourism, but this is the first time I’ve heard of voting tourism.

It isn't tourism to go home.

If you live in another country, isn’t that home?
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu May 24, 2018 8:23 pm

Galloism wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It isn't tourism to go home.

If you live in another country, isn’t that home?

Home is where the heart right to vote is.
Last edited by Ifreann on Thu May 24, 2018 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be

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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Thu May 24, 2018 8:24 pm

Which side are the Russians influencing?

In the UK.. I wasn't allowed to vote in the Brexit referendum as I'd been out of country for 15 years, but I am allowed to vote in elections.. which seems ridiculous because elections don't affect me at all whereas EU membership does given I'm a passport holder.

Here's hoping for the change in Ireland though.. I guess England will miss those tourist dollars though..
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Postby Shrillland » Thu May 24, 2018 8:55 pm

Bombadil wrote:Which side are the Russians influencing?

In the UK.. I wasn't allowed to vote in the Brexit referendum as I'd been out of country for 15 years, but I am allowed to vote in elections.. which seems ridiculous because elections don't affect me at all whereas EU membership does given I'm a passport holder.

Here's hoping for the change in Ireland though.. I guess England will miss those tourist dollars though..


They'll still get some, NI still doesn't allow abortions, I think.

Anyway, I'm all in favour of this, since its time for Irish women to have the choice that most of their European partners already have.
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Postby MERIZoC » Fri May 25, 2018 12:38 am

lol at FF and FG not taking an official position on the matter

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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Fri May 25, 2018 12:43 am

It's okay, they're not American.
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Fri May 25, 2018 3:36 am

Ifreann wrote:
Galloism wrote:Obviously right to self is of significant interest here. Also, I apologize, but this jumped out at me.



I’ve heard of medical tourism, but this is the first time I’ve heard of voting tourism.

It isn't tourism to go home.


It is tourism if you don't live there.

Don't see why they should have the right to vote. Not that Ireland is an intelligent country, Katherine Hall who was born in Canada and lives in Britain and has never spent more than a week in Ireland has an Irish passport.
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Postby Vassenor » Fri May 25, 2018 3:38 am

Trumptonium1 wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It isn't tourism to go home.


It is tourism if you don't live there.

Don't see why they should have the right to vote. Not that Ireland is an intelligent country, Katherine Hall who was born in Canada and lives in Britain and has never spent more than a week in Ireland has an Irish passport.


So we're just arbitrarily disenfranchising citizens now?
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Fri May 25, 2018 3:39 am

Vassenor wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:
It is tourism if you don't live there.

Don't see why they should have the right to vote. Not that Ireland is an intelligent country, Katherine Hall who was born in Canada and lives in Britain and has never spent more than a week in Ireland has an Irish passport.


So we're just arbitrarily disenfranchising citizens now?


Not living in a country seems like a rational disenfranchisement reason.

I thought you were against Brits in Spain voting in the EU referendum? We're not suddenly going all-hypocritical now, are we?
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Postby Eglaecia » Fri May 25, 2018 3:44 am

My dad's family are all out voting No. They didn't fight alongside Collins and Brugha, and later march for Sands, for Ireland to reject her founding principles.
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Postby Valrifell » Fri May 25, 2018 3:47 am

Eglaecia wrote:My dad's family are all out voting No. They didn't fight alongside Collins and Brugha, and later march for Sands, for Ireland to reject her founding principles.


I did not know that an amendment passed 46 years after the founding of a country is a founding principle.
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Postby Uxupox » Fri May 25, 2018 3:51 am

Ifreann wrote:Also, Ireland is a stupid country that doesn't facilitate postal voting for expatriates. So whenever there is an election or referendum, people have to come back to Ireland from all over the world to vote.


Why should people living in another country be allowed to vote in Ireland's constitutional referendum?
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Postby Mystic Warriors » Fri May 25, 2018 3:57 am

Uxupox wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Also, Ireland is a stupid country that doesn't facilitate postal voting for expatriates. So whenever there is an election or referendum, people have to come back to Ireland from all over the world to vote.


Why should people living in another country be allowed to vote in Ireland's constitutional referendum?


If they are citizens of that country, why not? What if they are over seas studying or on humanitarian missions?
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Postby Uxupox » Fri May 25, 2018 3:59 am

Mystic Warriors wrote:
Uxupox wrote:
Why should people living in another country be allowed to vote in Ireland's constitutional referendum?


If they are citizens of that country, why not? What if they are over seas studying or on humanitarian missions?


Exceptions for those such as what you have described should be allowed however if they are currently living on permanent residency on another country then they should have no say in what occurs in their indigenous country.
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Fri May 25, 2018 4:05 am

Uxupox wrote:
Mystic Warriors wrote:
If they are citizens of that country, why not? What if they are over seas studying or on humanitarian missions?


Exceptions for those such as what you have described should be allowed however if they are currently living on permanent residency on another country then they should have no say in what occurs in their indigenous country.

There are lots of jobs where you stay out of country for very long periods of time.
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Postby Vassenor » Fri May 25, 2018 4:10 am

Eglaecia wrote:My dad's family are all out voting No. They didn't fight alongside Collins and Brugha, and later march for Sands, for Ireland to reject her founding principles.


Women being nothing more than servile baby factories is a founding principle of the country?
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Fri May 25, 2018 4:14 am

Vassenor wrote:
Eglaecia wrote:My dad's family are all out voting No. They didn't fight alongside Collins and Brugha, and later march for Sands, for Ireland to reject her founding principles.


Women being nothing more than servile baby factories is a founding principle of the country?

Is that what their Constitution says? I had no idea. Have to start calling it "green pilled".
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Fri May 25, 2018 4:15 am

Vassenor wrote:
Eglaecia wrote:My dad's family are all out voting No. They didn't fight alongside Collins and Brugha, and later march for Sands, for Ireland to reject her founding principles.


Women being nothing more than servile baby factories is a founding principle of the country?

Pro-abortion strawman #1.
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Postby Vassenor » Fri May 25, 2018 4:15 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Women being nothing more than servile baby factories is a founding principle of the country?

Is that what their Constitution says? I had no idea. Have to start calling it "green pilled".


By banning abortion you are telling women that their body is not theirs to control.
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Fri May 25, 2018 4:17 am

Vassenor wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Is that what their Constitution says? I had no idea. Have to start calling it "green pilled".


By banning abortion you are telling women that their body is not theirs to control.

No, that's not what you're telling them at all.
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Postby Mystic Warriors » Fri May 25, 2018 4:18 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Women being nothing more than servile baby factories is a founding principle of the country?

Pro-abortion strawman #1.



Would you mind explaining why you think that? There are some on the right who do feel that way. Some, not all.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Fri May 25, 2018 4:18 am

Vassenor wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Is that what their Constitution says? I had no idea. Have to start calling it "green pilled".


By banning abortion you are telling women that their body is not theirs to control.

It is somewhat, but not absolutely. Same goes for men.
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