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by Intestinal fluids » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:54 pm
by Muravyets » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:54 pm
High Fortress wrote:Hmm. That is where you and me disagree, I find more than enough evidence to suspect obama, you don't. You said I was blowing smoke and was as bad as the birthers I called you a liar. seems like a eye for a eye. But lets just agree to disagree since this is going no where what so ever and will probably just continue until the end of time.
by Gauthier » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:01 pm
Muravyets wrote:High Fortress wrote:Hmm. That is where you and me disagree, I find more than enough evidence to suspect obama, you don't. You said I was blowing smoke and was as bad as the birthers I called you a liar. seems like a eye for a eye. But lets just agree to disagree since this is going no where what so ever and will probably just continue until the end of time.
I see. More than enough evidence, but we're not allowed to see it. I mean, you say you find there is more than enough, but you still don't show it to us. All you make is vague allusions to things you've seen or heard. Well, if that's the way you want to play it, J. Edgar.
And you called me a liar by saying I was lying when I said I saw nothing to suspect about Obama. Did you forget that? It's right here in the thread for you to refresh your memory.
So agree to disagree? No, sorry. I will call you on it every time you post bogus and unsupported accusations that amount to borderline slander against a public official for as long as you continue to fail to support your claims. I do that every time I see anyone doing it.
by Grave_n_idle » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:02 pm
High Fortress wrote:you misunderstand me, I fully believe he was born in hawaii. Im talking about in general and his government.
by Gauthier » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:05 pm
Grave_n_idle wrote:High Fortress wrote:you misunderstand me, I fully believe he was born in hawaii. Im talking about in general and his government.
So... what exactly is it you 'suspect', then?
by Grave_n_idle » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:13 pm
Gauthier wrote:Grave_n_idle wrote:High Fortress wrote:you misunderstand me, I fully believe he was born in hawaii. Im talking about in general and his government.
So... what exactly is it you 'suspect', then?
Hopefully it'll be something besides "he's a Socialist Muslim".
by High Fortress » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:16 pm
Grave_n_idle wrote:Yeah. I'm hoping for something specific, and worthy of the term 'suspect'. Something by way of evidence would be nice, too.
You think I'm being unrealistic?
by Sdaeriji » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:18 pm
High Fortress wrote:Grave_n_idle wrote:Yeah. I'm hoping for something specific, and worthy of the term 'suspect'. Something by way of evidence would be nice, too.
You think I'm being unrealistic?
mostly he's just corrupt and way over hyped.
by Moreau Catholic High » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:19 pm
High Fortress wrote:Grave_n_idle wrote:Yeah. I'm hoping for something specific, and worthy of the term 'suspect'. Something by way of evidence would be nice, too.
You think I'm being unrealistic?
mostly he's just corrupt and way over hyped.
by High Fortress » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:33 pm
by Phenia » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:15 pm
High Fortress wrote:I partly based this on what state he come from. Mine, Illinois. Our state is, well, known for being the most corrupt one in the union, and the area obama was from was probably the center of it, Chicago.
Looking at how he moved around the city, used the Daley Machine, and people connected to it such as Ayers, and important south side figures such as his pastor, he was able to move up in politics
, and in his election, he managed to disqualified all four of his opponents, using a very large legal team.
The most dramatic examples Obama's commitment to Chicago politics was his repeated endorsements of Chicago's machine politicians
, which came in opposition to what people of all ideological stripes viewed as the common good. Obama has never stood up against Chicago's corruption problem because his donors and allies are Chicago's corruption problem. He is not the reformer he now claims to be. The real man is the one they know in Chicago -- the one who won his first election by depriving voters of a choice.
But with using the Machine comes brining the machine. David axelrod, Timothy Geithner, Arne Duncan, Ray LaHood, Valerie Jarrett, Rahm Emanuel, most of them are involved with The daley machine in some way. Looking at his economic unit, most of them are from Goldman sachs. Then the ACORN connections. Looking at the people who donated to him during the campaign ( The 2nd highest were people from Goldman Sachs ) it begs the question on whether or not he can fight special interest. The firing of inspector-general Walpin in unjust ways as well raises my eyebrow.
Now, is this suddenly some huge scandal like Watergate, no, and probably won't be unless something major happens, which with Emanuel there, I doubt he will let anything leave the oval office. Am I saying suddenly that there is some huge thing under the surface that we don't know about, again, probably not. But what I am saying is that the people around him, the people who are in the highest positions of government, are corrupt, and connected to the worst machine in the country.
by Grave_n_idle » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:03 am
High Fortress wrote:Grave_n_idle wrote:Yeah. I'm hoping for something specific, and worthy of the term 'suspect'. Something by way of evidence would be nice, too.
You think I'm being unrealistic?
mostly he's just corrupt and way over hyped.
by Apanii » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:24 am
by High Fortress » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:25 am
Phenia wrote:Guilt by association eh?
You're actually using the fact that he succeeded as damning evidence against him.
And their disqualification was... unjust?
I don't see the "corrupt" part you keep claiming.
I don't even know what you're trying to say with "machine politicians."
I'll wait while you back this up with something more substantial.
Yeah, you're saying it, but you're not arguing it.
by Grave_n_idle » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:30 am
High Fortress wrote:I partly based this on what state he come from. Mine, Illinois. Our state is, well, known for being the most corrupt one in the union,
High Fortress wrote: and the area obama was from was probably the center of it, Chicago. Looking at how he moved around the city, used the Daley Machine, and people connected to it such as Ayers, and important south side figures such as his pastor, he was able to move up in politics,
High Fortress wrote:..and in his election, he managed to disqualified all four of his opponents, using a very large legal team. The most dramatic examples Obama's commitment to Chicago politics was his repeated endorsements of Chicago's machine politicians, which came in opposition to what people of all ideological stripes viewed as the common good. Obama has never stood up against Chicago's corruption problem because his donors and allies are Chicago's corruption problem.
High Fortress wrote:But with using the Machine comes brining the machine. David axelrod, Timothy Geithner, Arne Duncan, Ray LaHood, Valerie Jarrett, Rahm Emanuel, most of them are involved with The daley machine in some way. Looking at his economic unit, most of them are from Goldman sachs. Then the ACORN connections. Looking at the people who donated to him during the campaign ( The 2nd highest were people from Goldman Sachs ) it begs the question on whether or not he can fight special interest. The firing of inspector-general Walpin in unjust ways as well raises my eyebrow.
by Grave_n_idle » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:37 am
High Fortress wrote:No, im using the people he used to get ahead, because who connected himself with them. He choosed to connect himself with those people in order to win a election, even though one of said people was a domestic terrorist, and the other was a racsist. Theres a phrase, You Are Judged by the Company You Keep, works perfectly here.
High Fortress wrote:not my fault if people don't look up there own facts and can't get the info themselves,
by Eternal Mysteries » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:37 am
by High Fortress » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:21 am
Grave_n_idle wrote:According to the Corporate Crime Reporter, (a legal publication), Louisiana is the most corrupt state, and has been since 2006. Mississippi is the second most corrupt, then Kentucky, then Alabama, then Ohio. Illinois isn't even top 5.
Okay - here you seem to be doing nothing more than illustrating that Obama has backers, people that boost for him. All politicians have that - you haven't shown any suggestion of corruption here.
Okay, now we're getting somewhere. The actual corruption economy of Chicago.
And, you appear to be saying that Obama is connected to the corruption problem - so let's examine that: Blagojevich, George Ryan, Dan Walker, Otto Kerner Jr, William Stratton. Where is the evidence that implicates Obama with any of these - who will no doubt be recognised as THE veritable who's who of Chicago corruption.
Right, his economic experts came up through a (maybe THE) prominent economic institution - that, incidentally, also supplied Henry Paulson (Secretary of the Treasury under G. W. Bush) and Robert Rubin (Secretary of the Treasury under Clinton). Goldman Sachs are not an unusual, or noticably partisan, feature of recent government.
And - what you notice you still lack - is EVIDENCE of any corruption.
The 'racist' in question, I assume, is his preacher? You are aware, I'm sure, that 'preacher' is not a position that Obama would have allocated, or been ina position to change - if he attended THAT church, THAT preacher would likely be the preacher he got. That's just how it works.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/11/obamas-interview-with-cathleen.html
FALSANI
Do you still attend Trinity?
OBAMA:
Yep. Every week. 11 oclock service.
Ever been there? Good service.
I actually wrote a book called Dreams from My Father, it's kind of a meditation on race. There's a whole chapter on the church in that, and my first visits to Trinity
That doesn't mean he chose 'to connect' himself with that preacher, any more than you have 'chosen to connect yourself' with all those here on NSG. WOuld you like to be judged by the company you keep here?
As for the 'domestic terrorist'... and? You're creating a link where there is superficial connection, at best
You appear to be offended by the suggestion that you should provide evidence?
by Barringtonia » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:31 am
High Fortress wrote:*snip*
by North Suran » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:37 am
High Fortress wrote:Grave_n_idle wrote:You appear to be offended by the suggestion that you should provide evidence?
not really. But i do feel the Evidence arguement is just being used when people don't want to counter the points that were raised, and would rather just ask for a source. A good political move.
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.
Geniasis wrote:The War on Christmas
by North Suran » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:38 am
Barringtonia wrote:So what's his goal? Is it to loot the US treasury for his family and friends? Use US military force to remove family enemies?
What a pity for him that he came after George Bush, now there's nothing left, poor timing Barack,
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.
Geniasis wrote:The War on Christmas
by Nodinia » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:20 am
High Fortress wrote:I partly based this on what state he come from. Mine, Illinois. Our state is, well, known for being the most corrupt one in the union, .
by North Suran » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:25 am
Apanii wrote:Cake + Obama = Obamacake!
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.
Geniasis wrote:The War on Christmas
by Laerod » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:05 am
High Fortress wrote:And - what you notice you still lack - is EVIDENCE of any corruption.
Ok. I give, I have no evidence what so ever and am just making all this up because um a bigot red neck from the inner parts of Alabama that hates black people. Obama being president has made me so angry ive started to create lie after lie in order to bring on the republic of Jesusland, and screw that overly smart liberals up north. I still am angry over the outcome of the civil war, and I think he was born in Kenya. You have found me out, I guess my next best option it to move the south and our Iranian allies onto the moon where we can hate in peace./sarcasm
really... what do you want? A little floating sign that points to those who are corrupt?
You appear to be offended by the suggestion that you should provide evidence?
not really. But i do feel the Evidence arguement is just being used when people don't want to counter the points that were raised, and would rather just ask for a source. A good political move.
by New Tyrador » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:28 am
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