The Birth Certificate Controversy

[Intestinal fluids]

Obama is a 190 year old vampire born in Connecticut.

My cite: http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... orly-taitz

[Muravyets]

Hmm. That is where you and me disagree, I find more than enough evidence to suspect obama, you don't. You said I was blowing smoke and was as bad as the birthers I called you a liar. seems like a eye for a eye. But lets just agree to disagree since this is going no where what so ever and will probably just continue until the end of time.

I see. More than enough evidence, but we're not allowed to see it. I mean, you say you find there is more than enough, but you still don't show it to us. All you make is vague allusions to things you've seen or heard. Well, if that's the way you want to play it, J. Edgar.

And you called me a liar by saying I was lying when I said I saw nothing to suspect about Obama. Did you forget that? It's right here in the thread for you to refresh your memory.

So agree to disagree? No, sorry. I will call you on it every time you post bogus and unsupported accusations that amount to borderline slander against a public official for as long as you continue to fail to support your claims. I do that every time I see anyone doing it.

[Gauthier]

Hmm. That is where you and me disagree, I find more than enough evidence to suspect obama, you don't. You said I was blowing smoke and was as bad as the birthers I called you a liar. seems like a eye for a eye. But lets just agree to disagree since this is going no where what so ever and will probably just continue until the end of time.

I see. More than enough evidence, but we're not allowed to see it. I mean, you say you find there is more than enough, but you still don't show it to us. All you make is vague allusions to things you've seen or heard. Well, if that's the way you want to play it, J. Edgar.

And you called me a liar by saying I was lying when I said I saw nothing to suspect about Obama. Did you forget that? It's right here in the thread for you to refresh your memory.

So agree to disagree? No, sorry. I will call you on it every time you post bogus and unsupported accusations that amount to borderline slander against a public official for as long as you continue to fail to support your claims. I do that every time I see anyone doing it.

He has the evidence. He just can't show it for National Security Reasons.

[Grave_n_idle]

you misunderstand me, I fully believe he was born in hawaii. Im talking about in general and his government.

So... what exactly is it you 'suspect', then?

[Gauthier]

you misunderstand me, I fully believe he was born in hawaii. Im talking about in general and his government.

So... what exactly is it you 'suspect', then?

Hopefully it'll be something besides "he's a Socialist Muslim".

[Grave_n_idle]

you misunderstand me, I fully believe he was born in hawaii. Im talking about in general and his government.

So... what exactly is it you 'suspect', then?

Hopefully it'll be something besides "he's a Socialist Muslim".

Yeah. I'm hoping for something specific, and worthy of the term 'suspect'. Something by way of evidence would be nice, too.

You think I'm being unrealistic?

[High Fortress]

Yeah. I'm hoping for something specific, and worthy of the term 'suspect'. Something by way of evidence would be nice, too.

You think I'm being unrealistic?

mostly he's just corrupt and way over hyped.

[Sdaeriji]

Yeah. I'm hoping for something specific, and worthy of the term 'suspect'. Something by way of evidence would be nice, too.

You think I'm being unrealistic?

mostly he's just corrupt and way over hyped.

And you've got evidence of corruption, of course.

[Moreau Catholic High]

Yeah. I'm hoping for something specific, and worthy of the term 'suspect'. Something by way of evidence would be nice, too.

You think I'm being unrealistic?

mostly he's just corrupt and way over hyped.

Overhyped, sure.

Corrupt, I doubt it. On what premise is he corrupt? Evidence?

[High Fortress]

I partly based this on what state he come from. Mine, Illinois. Our state is, well, known for being the most corrupt one in the union, and the area obama was from was probably the center of it, Chicago. Looking at how he moved around the city, used the Daley Machine, and people connected to it such as Ayers, and important south side figures such as his pastor, he was able to move up in politics, and in his election, he managed to disqualified all four of his opponents, using a very large legal team. The most dramatic examples Obama's commitment to Chicago politics was his repeated endorsements of Chicago's machine politicians, which came in opposition to what people of all ideological stripes viewed as the common good. Obama has never stood up against Chicago's corruption problem because his donors and allies are Chicago's corruption problem. He is not the reformer he now claims to be. The real man is the one they know in Chicago -- the one who won his first election by depriving voters of a choice.

But with using the Machine comes brining the machine. David axelrod, Timothy Geithner, Arne Duncan, Ray LaHood, Valerie Jarrett, Rahm Emanuel, most of them are involved with The daley machine in some way. Looking at his economic unit, most of them are from Goldman sachs. Then the ACORN connections. Looking at the people who donated to him during the campaign ( The 2nd highest were people from Goldman Sachs ) it begs the question on whether or not he can fight special interest. The firing of inspector-general Walpin in unjust ways as well raises my eyebrow.

Now, is this suddenly some huge scandal like Watergate, no, and probably won't be unless something major happens, which with Emanuel there, I doubt he will let anything leave the oval office. Am I saying suddenly that there is some huge thing under the surface that we don't know about, again, probably not. But what I am saying is that the people around him, the people who are in the highest positions of government, are corrupt, and connected to the worst machine in the country.

[Phenia]

I partly based this on what state he come from. Mine, Illinois. Our state is, well, known for being the most corrupt one in the union, and the area obama was from was probably the center of it, Chicago.

Guilt by association eh?

Looking at how he moved around the city, used the Daley Machine, and people connected to it such as Ayers, and important south side figures such as his pastor, he was able to move up in politics

You're actually using the fact that he succeeded as damning evidence against him.

, and in his election, he managed to disqualified all four of his opponents, using a very large legal team.

And their disqualification was... unjust?

I don't see the "corrupt" part you keep claiming.

The most dramatic examples Obama's commitment to Chicago politics was his repeated endorsements of Chicago's machine politicians

I don't even know what you're trying to say with "machine politicians."

, which came in opposition to what people of all ideological stripes viewed as the common good. Obama has never stood up against Chicago's corruption problem because his donors and allies are Chicago's corruption problem. He is not the reformer he now claims to be. The real man is the one they know in Chicago -- the one who won his first election by depriving voters of a choice.

I'll wait while you back this up with something more substantial.

But with using the Machine comes brining the machine. David axelrod, Timothy Geithner, Arne Duncan, Ray LaHood, Valerie Jarrett, Rahm Emanuel, most of them are involved with The daley machine in some way. Looking at his economic unit, most of them are from Goldman sachs. Then the ACORN connections. Looking at the people who donated to him during the campaign ( The 2nd highest were people from Goldman Sachs ) it begs the question on whether or not he can fight special interest. The firing of inspector-general Walpin in unjust ways as well raises my eyebrow.

Now, is this suddenly some huge scandal like Watergate, no, and probably won't be unless something major happens, which with Emanuel there, I doubt he will let anything leave the oval office. Am I saying suddenly that there is some huge thing under the surface that we don't know about, again, probably not. But what I am saying is that the people around him, the people who are in the highest positions of government, are corrupt, and connected to the worst machine in the country.

Yeah, you're saying it, but you're not arguing it.

[Grave_n_idle]

Yeah. I'm hoping for something specific, and worthy of the term 'suspect'. Something by way of evidence would be nice, too.

You think I'm being unrealistic?

mostly he's just corrupt and way over hyped.

You 'find more than enough evidence to suspect' Obama of corruption and being over-hyped?

I agree - he's been over-hyped, but I don't 'suspect' it. He was elected on a mandate that people have been judging him on his failure or success of... since about 3 weeks after he entered the office. I don't think you can even really fault Obama, himself, for that hype. Both his detractors AND his supporters created an image they WANTED him to succeed or fail against. It's not fair to judge his presidency or the man according to THOSE metrics... because they were ours.

Regarding the 'more than enough evidence' of corruption... that's what I want to see - the evidence.

[Apanii]

Cake + Obama = Obamacake!

[High Fortress]

Guilt by association eh?

The people around you do define who you are. But really, the people he picked to be around, and the people he's picked to be in his government aint guilt by association, because he knew perfectly well who he was choosing and why.

You're actually using the fact that he succeeded as damning evidence against him.

No, im using the people he used to get ahead, because who connected himself with them. He choosed to connect himself with those people in order to win a election, even though one of said people was a domestic terrorist, and the other was a racsist. Theres a phrase, You Are Judged by the Company You Keep, works perfectly here. Since he has made his choice to keep his chicago 'allies'

And their disqualification was... unjust?

Yes, since you obviously don't know about what happend. He even used the fact a woman used her maiden name, then got married. Instead of giving his district choice and the ability to vote for the person they want to he used cheap legal methods to kick the other canidates out. I hardly call this something a reformist, or someone who is going to change washington, would do.

I don't see the "corrupt" part you keep claiming.

Ill tell Daley that, he will be more than happy.

I don't even know what you're trying to say with "machine politicians."

umm... did you do any looking into this guy Even if you don't believe he was connected, you should have atleast heard of the Chicago Machine. But ok. The Chicago machine in the political machine that controls large parts if not all of the Chicago, and most of the Illinois government. Known to be connected to the mob, pay to play politics, and waste huge amounts of public funds in funding itself, the machine continues to survive, even when person after person to arrest of corruption charges. Obama, even though he was suppose to be clean, and not apart of this, almost constantly supported the most corrupt of the local government, and killed many reform efforts and canidates. In effect showing his connection, and obvious need to be well connected to the source of a large amount of funding, and support.

I'll wait while you back this up with something more substantial.

Maybe because he Never Did support any reformist? Really, you and people like can continue to use the "well.. you have not made any concrete evidence the states such" arguement, when you ignore whats been said, and ignore anything that might have said that. But ok, lets list some links.

http://s.wsj.net/article/SB122895356506696347.html

http://media.wildcat.arizona.edu/media/ ... 7696.shtml

http://www.examiner.com/x-2547-Watchdog ... -by-firing

http://online.wsj.com/public/article_pr ... 55013.html

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/10/o ... s-in-2005/

http://www.newgeography.com/content/003 ... two-obamas

Yeah, you're saying it, but you're not arguing it.

not my fault if people don't look up there own facts and can't get the info themselves, whether they believe what will be presented to them is there choice, not mine. But that does not change what is there.

[Grave_n_idle]

I partly based this on what state he come from. Mine, Illinois. Our state is, well, known for being the most corrupt one in the union,

According to the Corporate Crime Reporter, (a legal publication), Louisiana is the most corrupt state, and has been since 2006. Mississippi is the second most corrupt, then Kentucky, then Alabama, then Ohio. Illinois isn't even top 5.

They drew their data from this DOJ report: http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/pin/docs/arpt-2006.pdf (warning - pdf)

and the area obama was from was probably the center of it, Chicago. Looking at how he moved around the city, used the Daley Machine, and people connected to it such as Ayers, and important south side figures such as his pastor, he was able to move up in politics,

Okay - here you seem to be doing nothing more than illustrating that Obama has backers, people that boost for him. All politicians have that - you haven't shown any suggestion of corruption here.

..and in his election, he managed to disqualified all four of his opponents, using a very large legal team. The most dramatic examples Obama's commitment to Chicago politics was his repeated endorsements of Chicago's machine politicians, which came in opposition to what people of all ideological stripes viewed as the common good. Obama has never stood up against Chicago's corruption problem because his donors and allies are Chicago's corruption problem.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. The actual corruption economy of Chicago.

And, you appear to be saying that Obama is connected to the corruption problem - so let's examine that: Blagojevich, George Ryan, Dan Walker, Otto Kerner Jr, William Stratton. Where is the evidence that implicates Obama with any of these - who will no doubt be recognised as THE veritable who's who of Chicago corruption.

But with using the Machine comes brining the machine. David axelrod, Timothy Geithner, Arne Duncan, Ray LaHood, Valerie Jarrett, Rahm Emanuel, most of them are involved with The daley machine in some way. Looking at his economic unit, most of them are from Goldman sachs. Then the ACORN connections. Looking at the people who donated to him during the campaign ( The 2nd highest were people from Goldman Sachs ) it begs the question on whether or not he can fight special interest. The firing of inspector-general Walpin in unjust ways as well raises my eyebrow.

Right, his economic experts came up through a (maybe THE) prominent economic institution - that, incidentally, also supplied Henry Paulson (Secretary of the Treasury under G. W. Bush) and Robert Rubin (Secretary of the Treasury under Clinton). Goldman Sachs are not an unusual, or noticably partisan, feature of recent government.

And - what you notice you still lack - is EVIDENCE of any corruption.

[Grave_n_idle]

No, im using the people he used to get ahead, because who connected himself with them. He choosed to connect himself with those people in order to win a election, even though one of said people was a domestic terrorist, and the other was a racsist. Theres a phrase, You Are Judged by the Company You Keep, works perfectly here.

The 'racist' in question, I assume, is his preacher? You are aware, I'm sure, that 'preacher' is not a position that Obama would have allocated, or been ina position to change - if he attended THAT church, THAT preacher would likely be the preacher he got. That's just how it works.

That doesn't mean he chose 'to connect' himself with that preacher, any more than you have 'chosen to connect yourself' with all those here on NSG. WOuld you like to be judged by the company you keep here?

As for the 'domestic terrorist'... and? You're creating a link where there is superficial connection, at best.

not my fault if people don't look up there own facts and can't get the info themselves,

You appear to be offended by the suggestion that you should provide evidence?

[Eternal Mysteries]

It is always a more "world attempt" at total control of human beings (God became man - Jesus)

I know my birth place and it isn't where my Birth Certificate records. I am created in a mysterious and wonderful way that has nothing to do with a document.

I am originally from the Quintet system and live on this planet (prison) waiting for freedom. I am thankful for my temporary "clay pot" mold and will continue to the event to move into the next phase of the mystery that no being will ever know.

If GOD decided to be born in flesh on Earth It is according to his own design.

The King of the Dragons of the Kingdom of Ethernal Mysteries

[High Fortress]

According to the Corporate Crime Reporter, (a legal publication), Louisiana is the most corrupt state, and has been since 2006. Mississippi is the second most corrupt, then Kentucky, then Alabama, then Ohio. Illinois isn't even top 5.

Yet at the sametime somewhere around 1500 individuals have been convicted of myriad forms of public corruption since 1970, 3 governors, and a 4th one on the way. While Chicago has the biggest anti-corruption unit in the country, and it over all has cost the Chicago area alone 300 Million to deal with this. Either way, were one of the worst, if not the worst state, and looking at people who still won't go, like Daley, and Jones, it's not going to get better. The amount of money it takes to both deal with this, the money wasted by the idiots in power, in the pay to play sheme, it has easily drained the city of money, trust, and will only continue to get worst.

Okay - here you seem to be doing nothing more than illustrating that Obama has backers, people that boost for him. All politicians have that - you haven't shown any suggestion of corruption here.

So... Jones... Daley... Rezko... and all the other corrupt others, are not corrupt, and are just backers of him
In terms of my state, you have no idea how wrong that statement was.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. The actual corruption economy of Chicago.

And, you appear to be saying that Obama is connected to the corruption problem - so let's examine that: Blagojevich, George Ryan, Dan Walker, Otto Kerner Jr, William Stratton. Where is the evidence that implicates Obama with any of these - who will no doubt be recognised as THE veritable who's who of Chicago corruption.

Well he was a supporter and "booster" to blagojevich But you forgot Jones, Daley, and a lot of the other still standing power brokers in the city is somewhat amazing, since it is Daley's Machine.

Right, his economic experts came up through a (maybe THE) prominent economic institution - that, incidentally, also supplied Henry Paulson (Secretary of the Treasury under G. W. Bush) and Robert Rubin (Secretary of the Treasury under Clinton). Goldman Sachs are not an unusual, or noticably partisan, feature of recent government.

And there very possible one of the causes for the downfall of the US economy. While the people who they have provided have saw, helped, and went through it's downfall, and now we are here. Clinton allowed for these subprime loans, bush expanded that, no one thought it could go wrong, then the market tanked. I would have hoped that Goldman Sachs, which has one of the best lobby groups on capital hill, would not have been given such a powerful position in our economic policy again.

And - what you notice you still lack - is EVIDENCE of any corruption.

Ok. I give, I have no evidence what so ever and am just making all this up because um a bigot red neck from the inner parts of Alabama that hates black people. Obama being president has made me so angry ive started to create lie after lie in order to bring on the republic of Jesusland, and screw that overly smart liberals up north. I still am angry over the outcome of the civil war, and I think he was born in Kenya. You have found me out, I guess my next best option it to move the south and our Iranian allies onto the moon where we can hate in peace./sarcasm

really... what do you want? A little floating sign that points to those who are corrupt?

The 'racist' in question, I assume, is his preacher? You are aware, I'm sure, that 'preacher' is not a position that Obama would have allocated, or been ina position to change - if he attended THAT church, THAT preacher would likely be the preacher he got. That's just how it works.

On his preacher, he was for awhile on the campaign, his 'spirtual advisor', while obama in pandering to the religious community did state that he went to church a lot. I mean, the teacher was racsist, did obviously have some issue with race relations. Which, since it does seem Obama knew his preacher said this, the question becomes why did he stay, or not speak out, and why not sooner.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/11/obamas-interview-with-cathleen.html
FALSANI
Do you still attend Trinity?

OBAMA:
Yep. Every week. 11 oclock service.

Ever been there? Good service.

I actually wrote a book called Dreams from My Father, it's kind of a meditation on race. There's a whole chapter on the church in that, and my first visits to Trinity

That doesn't mean he chose 'to connect' himself with that preacher, any more than you have 'chosen to connect yourself' with all those here on NSG. WOuld you like to be judged by the company you keep here?

If I say yes would you be my friend but at the sametime, he kinda did :\ Sure, people should not normally be judged by the company they are near, or the community they are in, but something as in a church, in which he was close to his preacher, who turned out to be a idiot, its more than just being on the internet. I see your point, but at the sametime I do wonder why he didn't once question the situation.

As for the 'domestic terrorist'... and? You're creating a link where there is superficial connection, at best

Bill Ayers, Works at the University of Illinois at Chicago, and was a Domestic Terrorist in the 70's, with one bombing claiming 3 lives. Him and Obama met in the mid 90's, and for the next decade worked on many foundations and organizations together. Though there main relationship is in dispute, it is obvious the Obama used Ayers connections with the Liberal sector of the city in order to further himself in the cities politics. Though Ayers himself was not involved in the 2008 election, and was not a advisor to Obama. It still raises some questions of judgement on the President's part to use Ayers to get ahread.

You appear to be offended by the suggestion that you should provide evidence?

not really. But i do feel the Evidence arguement is just being used when people don't want to counter the points that were raised, and would rather just ask for a source. A good political move.

[Barringtonia]

*snip*

So what's his goal? Is it to loot the US treasury for his family and friends? Use US military force to remove family enemies?

What a pity for him that he came after George Bush, now there's nothing left, poor timing Barack,

[North Suran]

You appear to be offended by the suggestion that you should provide evidence?

not really. But i do feel the Evidence arguement is just being used when people don't want to counter the points that were raised, and would rather just ask for a source. A good political move.

Almost as good as a move as making slanderous accusations towards the President and using the excuse "the evidence is evident", as it means you don't have to back up any of your ridicilous assertions with evidence.

[North Suran]

So what's his goal? Is it to loot the US treasury for his family and friends? Use US military force to remove family enemies?

What a pity for him that he came after George Bush, now there's nothing left, poor timing Barack,

He's just taking orders from his paymasters in Bermuda - the New World Order.

[Nodinia]

I partly based this on what state he come from. Mine, Illinois. Our state is, well, known for being the most corrupt one in the union, .

You're from Illnois. You know of corruption. That means you are corrupt, and have been paid to post this.

[North Suran]

Cake + Obama = Obamacake!

Obamacake looks very delicious.

[Laerod]

And - what you notice you still lack - is EVIDENCE of any corruption.

Ok. I give, I have no evidence what so ever and am just making all this up because um a bigot red neck from the inner parts of Alabama that hates black people. Obama being president has made me so angry ive started to create lie after lie in order to bring on the republic of Jesusland, and screw that overly smart liberals up north. I still am angry over the outcome of the civil war, and I think he was born in Kenya. You have found me out, I guess my next best option it to move the south and our Iranian allies onto the moon where we can hate in peace./sarcasm

really... what do you want? A little floating sign that points to those who are corrupt?

A bit more than "He started his political career in an area known for corruption" would be nice. Hearsay and random implications are less than helpful.

You appear to be offended by the suggestion that you should provide evidence?

not really. But i do feel the Evidence arguement is just being used when people don't want to counter the points that were raised, and would rather just ask for a source. A good political move.

"Points"? If you argue that someone is corrupt and suspect, it really shouldn't be considered in any way lazy for people to ask you to support it.

[New Tyrador]

The real reason that this was anything of a controversy was becasue of the time it took the Obama campaign and later administration to come up with the actual document.

The fact that when Mccain's birth was questioned he immediately produced his original birth certificate, while Obama took ages to produce a certified copy (never the original) made people suspicious, especially Obama's political opponents who are always looking for any reason anyway.

Now one would think that the best way to quash these rumors would have been to immediately produce the original, but he didn't do that (still hasn't) But now I wonder has it occurred to anyone that Obama himself did not know or was unsure of the real truth of his birth? After all he was a newborn at the time.