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Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What type of leftist are you?

Left-leaning Centrist
105
13%
Left/Social Liberal
74
9%
Social Democrat
115
14%
Democratic Socialist
139
17%
Marxist Communist
139
17%
Social Anarchist
50
6%
Individualist Anarchist
38
5%
Revolutionary Syndicalist
39
5%
Communalist
27
3%
Other (Please Post)
71
9%
 
Total votes : 797

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18774
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:55 pm

HMS Barham wrote:
Kubra wrote: It has, however, never exchanged christian vows, except within its christian community. Funny thing, it's not part of chinese traditions.
So I can only assume insufficient popery

"Christian" vows are a continuation of older traditions. Christianity is beside the point.

Every culture with more than a handful of members has had enforceable marriage. Because the wages is sin is death (not going to hell).
But there is no eastern hell
Yeah except since the Tang dynasty the Chinese got one get-out-of-marriage free card
But in any case, I can see why the previous forms of marriage are so appealing to you. It appears to be quite on a personal level.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

"Plagiarism is necessary, progress implies it."
Guy Debord

User avatar
HMS Barham
Diplomat
 
Posts: 604
Founded: Nov 24, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby HMS Barham » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:58 pm

Kubra wrote:
HMS Barham wrote:"Christian" vows are a continuation of older traditions. Christianity is beside the point.

Every culture with more than a handful of members has had enforceable marriage. Because the wages is sin is death (not going to hell).
But there is no eastern hell
Yeah except since the Tang dynasty the Chinese got one get-out-of-marriage free card
But in any case, I can see why the previous forms of marriage are so appealing to you. It appears to be quite on a personal level.

I am just some nobody.

China was a great nation, and the orientals a great race. The question is will either survive.
Pour la canaille: Faut la mitraille.

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18774
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:03 pm

HMS Barham wrote:
Kubra wrote: But there is no eastern hell
Yeah except since the Tang dynasty the Chinese got one get-out-of-marriage free card
But in any case, I can see why the previous forms of marriage are so appealing to you. It appears to be quite on a personal level.

I am just some nobody.

China was a great nation, and the orientals a great race. The question is will either survive.
I'm more worried about your progeny than theirs, if you know what I mean.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

"Plagiarism is necessary, progress implies it."
Guy Debord

User avatar
HMS Barham
Diplomat
 
Posts: 604
Founded: Nov 24, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby HMS Barham » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:06 pm

Kubra wrote:
HMS Barham wrote:I am just some nobody.

China was a great nation, and the orientals a great race. The question is will either survive.
I'm more worried about your progeny than theirs, if you know what I mean.

Me too. Still, my nation is killing itself the most slowly of any.
Pour la canaille: Faut la mitraille.

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18774
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:13 pm

HMS Barham wrote:
Kubra wrote: I'm more worried about your progeny than theirs, if you know what I mean.

Me too. Still, my nation is killing itself the most slowly of any.
What, the UK? Well, I'm surprised, I thought you weren't terribly fond of pakistani's.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

"Plagiarism is necessary, progress implies it."
Guy Debord

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:23 pm

HMS Barham wrote:I already named several. The modern US is a welfare state, not to mention a regulatory omnistate, and Trump doesn't intend to reverse that. He intends to ameliorate it slightly. It's like saying Gorbachev wasn't a communist.


Again, your statement makes no sense. First, communism has nothing to do with a welfare state. That is called social democracy, not communism. Communists generally oppose, not support, the welfare state.

What I do know about Mr. Gorbachev is that he dismantled the Soviet Union. However, what does Gorbachev have to do with Trump?
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל) ⭐ ⚑ ☥
third campism•Libertarian Marxist Social Fiction•critical realism•Antifa•Dialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
☭ You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. ☪ Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]

User avatar
HMS Barham
Diplomat
 
Posts: 604
Founded: Nov 24, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby HMS Barham » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:25 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
HMS Barham wrote:I already named several. The modern US is a welfare state, not to mention a regulatory omnistate, and Trump doesn't intend to reverse that. He intends to ameliorate it slightly. It's like saying Gorbachev wasn't a communist.


Again, your statement makes no sense. First, communism has nothing to do with a welfare state. That is called social democracy, not communism. Communists generally oppose, not support, the welfare state.

What I do know about Mr. Gorbachev is that he dismantled the Soviet Union. However, what does Gorbachev have to do with Trump?

Look at the manifesto of a guy like Eugene V Debs. There wasn't a whole lot of different between that and what Trump accepts.
Pour la canaille: Faut la mitraille.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60878
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:32 pm

HMS Barham wrote:China was a great nation

It still is, warts and all. Massive economy, growing regional and international influence, and a rising middle class.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69943
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:37 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:#bigbrotherdidnothingwrong #freedomisslavery #warispeace #ignoranceisstrength

Ingsoc must be popular with the modern left.

Hey don't associate me with that delusional crap.

User avatar
HMS Barham
Diplomat
 
Posts: 604
Founded: Nov 24, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby HMS Barham » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:38 pm

Liriena wrote:
HMS Barham wrote:China was a great nation

It still is, warts and all. Massive economy, growing regional and international influence, and a rising middle class.

No still, it's just gradually becoming one. Too early to say though.
Pour la canaille: Faut la mitraille.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60878
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:42 pm

HMS Barham wrote:
Liriena wrote:It still is, warts and all. Massive economy, growing regional and international influence, and a rising middle class.

No still, it's just gradually becoming one. Too early to say though.

How is a territorially massive nation with over a billion inhabitants and the second largest economy globally not a "great nation" already? What standards are you measuring China by?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60878
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:44 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:#bigbrotherdidnothingwrong #freedomisslavery #warispeace #ignoranceisstrength

Ingsoc must be popular with the modern left.

We prefer Ursula K. Le Guin's Anarres, thank you very much. ;3
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
HMS Barham
Diplomat
 
Posts: 604
Founded: Nov 24, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby HMS Barham » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:46 pm

Liriena wrote:
HMS Barham wrote:No still, it's just gradually becoming one. Too early to say though.

How is a territorially massive nation with over a billion inhabitants and the second largest economy globally not a "great nation" already? What standards are you measuring China by?

It's had a significant economy for about 20 years, which is not very long.

A nation is great in its soul.
Pour la canaille: Faut la mitraille.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60878
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:50 pm

HMS Barham wrote:
Liriena wrote:How is a territorially massive nation with over a billion inhabitants and the second largest economy globally not a "great nation" already? What standards are you measuring China by?

It's had a significant economy for about 20 years, which is not very long.

A nation is great in its soul.

...what's this dollar store "I can't believe it's not anthropology" and how did it get here?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
The Widening Gyre
Diplomat
 
Posts: 949
Founded: Jun 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Widening Gyre » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:53 pm

Liriena wrote:
HMS Barham wrote:It's had a significant economy for about 20 years, which is not very long.

A nation is great in its soul.

...what's this dollar store "I can't believe it's not anthropology" and how did it get here?


TIL that nations are great in their souls, and souls can be measured by the gross domestic product of their hosts. Economics: it really is just voodoo!
anarchist communist, deep ecologist and agrarianist sympathizer

User avatar
HMS Barham
Diplomat
 
Posts: 604
Founded: Nov 24, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby HMS Barham » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:54 pm

Liriena wrote:
HMS Barham wrote:It's had a significant economy for about 20 years, which is not very long.

A nation is great in its soul.

...what's this dollar store "I can't believe it's not anthropology" and how did it get here?

Many large and populous nations have crumpled. With a weak soul, anything is possible.
Pour la canaille: Faut la mitraille.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60878
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:57 pm

HMS Barham wrote:
Liriena wrote:...what's this dollar store "I can't believe it's not anthropology" and how did it get here?

Many large and populous nations have crumpled. With a weak soul, anything is possible.

What's a soul? Can it be objectively observed and measured by any professional?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18774
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:57 pm

Liriena wrote:
HMS Barham wrote:It's had a significant economy for about 20 years, which is not very long.

A nation is great in its soul.

...what's this dollar store "I can't believe it's not anthropology" and how did it get here?
It's all brits have left
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

"Plagiarism is necessary, progress implies it."
Guy Debord

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9866
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:01 pm

Liriena wrote:
HMS Barham wrote:China was a great nation

It still is, warts and all. Massive economy, growing regional and international influence, and a rising middle class.

A corrupt, surveillant dictatorship makes for pretty big and disgusting warts.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: Liberalism
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60878
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:05 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Liriena wrote:It still is, warts and all. Massive economy, growing regional and international influence, and a rising middle class.

A corrupt, surveillant dictatorship makes for pretty big and disgusting warts.

I was not aware that being a transparent democracy was part of the goalposts here. That really narrows down the amount of countries that could ever be called great... and even excludes the current superpower. :/
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60878
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:06 pm

Kubra wrote:
Liriena wrote:...what's this dollar store "I can't believe it's not anthropology" and how did it get here?
It's all brits have left

Can't they be pleased with being the people of Austen, Dickens, Tolkien and Pratchett, and leave it at that? What more could you possibly want?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18774
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:07 pm

Liriena wrote:
Kubra wrote: It's all brits have left

Can't they be pleased with being the people of Austen, Dickens, Tolkien and Pratchett, and leave it at that? What more could you possibly want?
an empire
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

"Plagiarism is necessary, progress implies it."
Guy Debord

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60878
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:13 pm

Kubra wrote:
Liriena wrote:Can't they be pleased with being the people of Austen, Dickens, Tolkien and Pratchett, and leave it at that? What more could you possibly want?
an empire

Brits want to be violently kicked out of other people's lands again? I don't think even burglars are as addicted to trespassing.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18774
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:23 pm

Liriena wrote:
Kubra wrote: an empire

Brits want to be violently kicked out of other people's lands again? I don't think even burglars are as addicted to trespassing.
Well I mean they got the run of the house for quite a bit of time
squat for long enough and it feels like home
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

"Plagiarism is necessary, progress implies it."
Guy Debord

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:35 pm

HMS Barham wrote:Look at the manifesto of a guy like Eugene V Debs. There wasn't a whole lot of different between that and what Trump accepts.


More vagueness.

First, you never state what precisely can be correlated between Debs and Trump. You simply make an assertion. What is your point?

Second, Eugene Debs wasn't even a communist. He was a democratic socialist. Your argument, such as it is, really ends at that point. There is a huge difference between Debs and the views of most communists on a host of issues. However, since you are so nonspecific, I am unable to point out relevant differences. (Relevant to what?)

Third, I have read Debs quite thoroughly.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל) ⭐ ⚑ ☥
third campism•Libertarian Marxist Social Fiction•critical realism•Antifa•Dialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
☭ You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. ☪ Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
Code: Select all
[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]

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