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FCC to repeal Net Neutrality Bill

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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
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Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:20 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Well, I won't have to pay for the stupid Hulu/Netflix/whatever other nonproprietary streaming platform service.


You already aren't, and even if you were, this would have zero effect on what you pay, because the price is not supply-limited.


Yes I am... my ISP allows me to stream Netflix, it doesn't do so magically, it does so through infrastructure and labor, neither of which is free. And the price is supply limited, an ISP network doesn't just magically carry unlimited amounts of data, this is why they limit downloads, and why they cap speeds.
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Donut section
 
Founded:

Postby Donut section » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:21 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Donut section wrote:
No I didn't.


Yes, you did. Unless you are suddenly going to claim that spending a fortune administering a wide variety of options is profitable for a monopoly.


What monopoly?

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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:22 pm

Telconi wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
You already aren't, and even if you were, this would have zero effect on what you pay, because the price is not supply-limited.


Yes I am... my ISP allows me to stream Netflix, it doesn't do so magically, it does so through infrastructure and labor, neither of which is free. And the price is supply limited, an ISP network doesn't just magically carry unlimited amounts of data, this is why they limit downloads, and why they cap speeds.


The price is not supply limited. You can tell by how the ISPs all make massive profits. If it were supply limited, they would be working on razor-thin margins. The price is dictated by a functional monopoly. They place limits on it because it increases their profit margin. This change allows them to either:

1) Increase their profit margin more; or
2) Charge you less.

Given that the market will already bear the price that you are paying, and that they are operating as a monopoly in many areas, there's literally no reason for them to even consider (2).
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:23 pm

Donut section wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Yes, you did. Unless you are suddenly going to claim that spending a fortune administering a wide variety of options is profitable for a monopoly.


What monopoly?


ISPs in the US function as a monopoly.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

Donut section
 
Founded:

Postby Donut section » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:24 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Donut section wrote:
What monopoly?


ISPs in the US function as a monopoly.


That's a function of regulation.

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Salandriagado
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Founded: Apr 03, 2008
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Postby Salandriagado » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:27 pm

Donut section wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
ISPs in the US function as a monopoly.


That's a function of regulation.


No it isn't. And even if it is, you haven't explained how this change will change that, or how it will magically cause ISPs to stop acting rationally.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

Donut section
 
Founded:

Postby Donut section » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:30 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Donut section wrote:
That's a function of regulation.


No it isn't. And even if it is, you haven't explained how this change will change that, or how it will magically cause ISPs to stop acting rationally.


Opening the market to other service providers, increased competition.

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Salandriagado
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Founded: Apr 03, 2008
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Postby Salandriagado » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:31 pm

Donut section wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
No it isn't. And even if it is, you haven't explained how this change will change that, or how it will magically cause ISPs to stop acting rationally.


Opening the market to other service providers, increased competition.


And how does it make the massive barriers to entry suddenly vanish?
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

Donut section
 
Founded:

Postby Donut section » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:33 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Donut section wrote:
Opening the market to other service providers, increased competition.


And how does it make the massive barriers to entry suddenly vanish?


Removes the main barrier, legislative requirements.

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Dylar
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Posts: 7071
Founded: Jan 07, 2016
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Postby Dylar » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:35 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Donut section wrote:
Opening the market to other service providers, increased competition.


And how does it make the massive barriers to entry suddenly vanish?

Competition is what keeps companies in check without regulation. Because once one company does something bad to exploit it's customers, then all the other companies jump in and use their failure to promote how good their own company is. Once that happens, most of the customers from the bad company will switch over to another company leaving the bad company to die
Last edited by Dylar on Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
St. Albert the Great wrote:"Natural science does not consist in ratifying what others have said, but in seeking the causes of phenomena."
Franko Tildon wrote:Fire washes the skin off the bone and the sin off the soul. It cleans away the dirt. And my momma didn't raise herself no dirty boy.

Pro: Life, Catholic, religious freedom, guns
Against: gun control, abortion, militant atheism
Interests: Video Games, Military History, Catholic theology, Sci-Fi, and Table-Top Miniatures games
Favorite music genres: Metal, Drinking songs, Polka, Military Marches, Hardbass, and Movie/Video Game soundtracks

User avatar
Salandriagado
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Posts: 22831
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Salandriagado » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:36 pm

Donut section wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
And how does it make the massive barriers to entry suddenly vanish?


Removes the main barrier, legislative requirements.


That isn't the main barrier at all. The difference here is marginal at best. The barriers are in infrastructure costs and the difficulty of getting access to lay cables.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Salandriagado
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Posts: 22831
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
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Postby Salandriagado » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:37 pm

Dylar wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
And how does it make the massive barriers to entry suddenly vanish?

Competition is what keeps companies in check without regulation. Because once one company does something bad to exploit it's customers, then all the other companies jump in and use their failure to promote how good their own company is. Once that happens, most of the customers from the bad company will switch over to another company leaving the bad company to die


Are you going to actually answer the question now? Why will the infrastructural barriers to entry magically vanish?
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Dylar
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Posts: 7071
Founded: Jan 07, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Dylar » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:41 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Dylar wrote:Competition is what keeps companies in check without regulation. Because once one company does something bad to exploit it's customers, then all the other companies jump in and use their failure to promote how good their own company is. Once that happens, most of the customers from the bad company will switch over to another company leaving the bad company to die


Are you going to actually answer the question now? Why will the infrastructural barriers to entry magically vanish?

I never said they would...? You confusing me with Donut, or did I miss a post from you a few pages back?
St. Albert the Great wrote:"Natural science does not consist in ratifying what others have said, but in seeking the causes of phenomena."
Franko Tildon wrote:Fire washes the skin off the bone and the sin off the soul. It cleans away the dirt. And my momma didn't raise herself no dirty boy.

Pro: Life, Catholic, religious freedom, guns
Against: gun control, abortion, militant atheism
Interests: Video Games, Military History, Catholic theology, Sci-Fi, and Table-Top Miniatures games
Favorite music genres: Metal, Drinking songs, Polka, Military Marches, Hardbass, and Movie/Video Game soundtracks

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Telconi
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Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
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Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:44 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Donut section wrote:
What monopoly?


ISPs in the US function as a monopoly.


But they don't...
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
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-Labor Unions
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ANTI:
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-Government Overreach
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-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
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-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Salandriagado
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Founded: Apr 03, 2008
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Postby Salandriagado » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:49 pm

Dylar wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Are you going to actually answer the question now? Why will the infrastructural barriers to entry magically vanish?

I never said they would...? You confusing me with Donut, or did I miss a post from you a few pages back?


No, I'm just wondering why you're quoting a high school economics textbook that has no relevance on the discussion.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Salandriagado
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Posts: 22831
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Salandriagado » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:49 pm

Telconi wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
ISPs in the US function as a monopoly.


But they don't...


They literally do. This has been covered several times already.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
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Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:52 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Telconi wrote:
But they don't...


They literally do. This has been covered several times already.


They literally don't, at least not to any significant extent. Repeating talking points that aren't rooted in reality is not "covering" anything.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Salandriagado
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Posts: 22831
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
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Postby Salandriagado » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:53 pm

Telconi wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
They literally do. This has been covered several times already.


They literally don't, at least not to any significant extent. Repeating talking points that aren't rooted in reality is not "covering" anything.


They literally agree not to compete with each other. They make huge profit margins, and raise prices in excess of the growth in their costs. They function, in every way, as a monopoly.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Telconi
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Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:55 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Telconi wrote:
They literally don't, at least not to any significant extent. Repeating talking points that aren't rooted in reality is not "covering" anything.


They literally agree not to compete with each other. They make huge profit margins, and raise prices in excess of the growth in their costs. They function, in every way, as a monopoly.


Well the ISPs in your fantasy land sound awful...
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Dylar
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Posts: 7071
Founded: Jan 07, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Dylar » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:55 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Dylar wrote:I never said they would...? You confusing me with Donut, or did I miss a post from you a few pages back?


No, I'm just wondering why you're quoting a high school economics textbook that has no relevance on the discussion.

I just kinda decided to pop in without reading the last few pages to see what the actual argument is about...I'm just gonna brush up on these last 5 pages now...
St. Albert the Great wrote:"Natural science does not consist in ratifying what others have said, but in seeking the causes of phenomena."
Franko Tildon wrote:Fire washes the skin off the bone and the sin off the soul. It cleans away the dirt. And my momma didn't raise herself no dirty boy.

Pro: Life, Catholic, religious freedom, guns
Against: gun control, abortion, militant atheism
Interests: Video Games, Military History, Catholic theology, Sci-Fi, and Table-Top Miniatures games
Favorite music genres: Metal, Drinking songs, Polka, Military Marches, Hardbass, and Movie/Video Game soundtracks

User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22831
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Salandriagado » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:56 pm

Telconi wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
They literally agree not to compete with each other. They make huge profit margins, and raise prices in excess of the growth in their costs. They function, in every way, as a monopoly.


Well the ISPs in your fantasy land sound awful...


This isn't fantasy. This is literally in their financial reports every year. And it's inevitable: until the US fixes the silly mess that was having the ISPs own the infrastructure, it's never going to change.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:58 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Well the ISPs in your fantasy land sound awful...


This isn't fantasy. This is literally in their financial reports every year. And it's inevitable: until the US fixes the silly mess that was having the ISPs own the infrastructure, it's never going to change.


[Citation needed]
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22831
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Salandriagado » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:59 pm

Telconi wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
This isn't fantasy. This is literally in their financial reports every year. And it's inevitable: until the US fixes the silly mess that was having the ISPs own the infrastructure, it's never going to change.


[Citation needed]


For example. Just the figures on the "highlights" page verify my above claim.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:01 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Telconi wrote:
[Citation needed]


For example. Just the figures on the "highlights" page verify my above claim.


Those numbers somehow prove that AT&T operates in collusion with competitors? Care to say how?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22831
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Salandriagado » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:02 pm

Telconi wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
For example. Just the figures on the "highlights" page verify my above claim.


Those numbers somehow prove that AT&T operates in collusion with competitors? Care to say how?


No, they prove the financial claims that I made. That they don't compete with each other (note that I didn't say it's collusion: simply deciding not to compete is not collusion) is evident by simply looking at the services that they provide, and where they provide them.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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