Seattle Mayor Calls for Removal of Lenin Statue

[Shofercia]

Ironically, those things are on private property, so they can't really do anything about them.

Eminent Domain. :^)

I'm fine with taking this piece of private property for public use and in the process demolishing the statue.

That's not how eminent domain works. You can take the land, but if the owner removes the statue before you can take the land, he can move the statue to another part of his private land, and place it there. So you'd be wasting public money to play whack-a-Lenin, and lose.

I'm starting to think Americans are just Iconoclasts

Maybe someone played a bit too much Warhammer 40k

Murray Isn't smart in general. This is the same man who thinks diet soda taxes will fight white privilege.

That explains quite a bit.

Quite frankly, I don't care if there is a Lenin statue. Lenin was a reprehensible human being, and if the owner of that statue wants to associate himself with said individual, he is more than welcome to do so.

Its a fucking statue, if you don't like it, ignore it.

The owner of the statue says that it's an incredible work of art, and dresses it up, (rather artistically from what I've seen,) for Christmas. A statue of Lenin - dressed up for Christmas. Do you still think he reveres Lenin?

He had more historical impact than the Confederacy... Just saying...

[Shofercia]

And we will put it to use. Put a statue of Joseph McCarthy there instead. The Joseph McCarthy Memorial and Freedom Park.

The Joseph McCarthy Memorial and Freedom Park.

Come see our latest attractions! Blacklist your friends! Ride our new "Pinochet Express"!

Try the daily special at the House of Un-American Pancakes, prices so low you'll say "I am not a member of the Communist party!"

Lenin was a top notch piece of shit.

...nah. I mean, he was flawed like hell, but in the greater scheme of things, he's probably the closest thing Russia ever had to its own Washington... or Hamilton... or maybe Lincoln.

Mind you, I'm more of a Rosa Luxemburg fanboy myself.

Not even close. We have Alexander Nevsky, St. Olga of Pskov, Dmitri Donskoy, Csar Ivan the Great, and so on. Lenin pales in comparison. Heck, even Csar Alexander the Liberator was a bit better.

Apparently the mayor is an actual idiot

"Welcome to the tour of the Seattle Government building... and over here we have an actual idiot, erm, how is your day going Mr. Mayor?"

Lenin shouldn't be in the US

Hey, if that French lady with a torch gets to stay, so does Lenin.

They should do the same thing as Ukraine did with one of its Lenin statues.

(Image)

The ran one of the best political campaigns in Ukraine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UpDq_vVrsY

[Shofercia]

I wrote a little poem about it:

Statue's on private land,
Confederates fail again!

Going to be honest, a bronze statue of Lenin being bought by a private citizen, and then being placed on Private property is nothing short of pure irony. It is utterly hilarious that a nearby Taco Del Mar used it as advertising by placing a giant burrito in his hands.

The Christmas Lights on the statue added to its artistic value. Did the burrito? Was the burrito artistic? Now that you've brought it up, I demand to know!

Going to be honest, a bronze statue of Lenin being bought by a private citizen, and then being placed on Private property is nothing short of pure irony. It is utterly hilarious that a nearby Taco Del Mar used it as advertising by placing a giant burrito in his hands.

If it has to come down, send it back to Slovakia. Apparently some guy was living in it before it came to the US.

Probably an artist

Yes, it should be removed from Seattle, and instead placed in Washington D.C, replacing a monument to Lincoln or Washington.

I thought the Washington Monument was a secret tribute to JFK.

[The Two Jerseys]

No, the replacement should be a statue honoring the casualties of the Pig War.

(Image)

Why not the Emu War?

Because the Pig War was a local event.

[Genivaria]

By this point since the Charlottesville incident, people across the US have called for the removal of Confederate statues, and Seattle is no different. However, a new development in the saga has arisen:

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/seattle-mayor-murray-calls-for-removal-of-confederate-monument-lenin-statue/

With the removal of the Confederate statues, come the removal of communist statues as well in this wild ride.

Personally, I have mixed feelings as opposed to my staunch stance of anti removal for the Confederate statues. On one hand, it is indeed a piece of history. On the other, it is a statue that has nothing to do with American history and was brought over in the late 20th century from Czechoslovakia. Perhaps a museum piece would fit.

That's just my silly opinion. What are your thoughts NSG? Do you agree with the Seattle mayor? Or do you believe otherwise?

Both statues are on private property, so all the Mayor can do is express his personal opinion.

Are they?
Well that kind of changes the whole thing.

[Thermodolia]

Both statues are on private property, so all the Mayor can do is express his personal opinion.

Are they?
Well that kind of changes the whole thing.

No it doesn't.

Start the bulldozers boys!!

[Thermodolia]

Lenin shouldn't be in the US

Hey, if that French lady with a torch gets to stay, so does Lenin.

French lady is an American thank you very much

[Kramania]

Yes, but Lenin's statue should be taken down because he killed people,

So did George Washington.

I'm not talking about deaths in war.

Also, if you wanna compare Lenin to Washington you're going to have a bad time. Lenin was a tyrant. Washington and the other Founders went out of their way to remove power from their own hands.

overthrew a democratic provisional government

True.

I know.

and enslaved an entire country under a dictatorship that would last over half a century.

One could argue that that was mostly Stalin's fault

Oh, no. Lenin laid the framework for dictatorship. Stalin consolidated it in his own hands.

[Kramania]

But Lenin wasn't as bad because he didn't discriminate with who he killed. He just killed everyone.

Such a bloodthirsty killer... who partially led the revolution in the name of ending Russia's participation in the Great War.

Who needs to kill Germans and Austro-Hungarians when you can kill your own people?

Are you really trying to defend Lenin? I know you're a socialist but come the fuck on.

[Kramania]

Lenin shouldn't be in the US

Hey, if that French lady with a torch gets to stay, so does Lenin.

That French lady with a torch symbolizes liberty.

Lenin, on the other hand, was a dictator.

[Kramania]

Eminent Domain. :^)

I'm fine with taking this piece of private property for public use and in the process demolishing the statue.

That's not how eminent domain works. You can take the land, but if the owner removes the statue before you can take the land, he can move the statue to another part of his private land, and place it there. So you'd be wasting public money to play whack-a-Lenin, and lose.

I'm starting to think Americans are just Iconoclasts

Maybe someone played a bit too much Warhammer 40k

Murray Isn't smart in general. This is the same man who thinks diet soda taxes will fight white privilege.

That explains quite a bit.

Quite frankly, I don't care if there is a Lenin statue. Lenin was a reprehensible human being, and if the owner of that statue wants to associate himself with said individual, he is more than welcome to do so.

Its a fucking statue, if you don't like it, ignore it.

The owner of the statue says that it's an incredible work of art, and dresses it up, (rather artistically from what I've seen,) for Christmas. A statue of Lenin - dressed up for Christmas. Do you still think he reveres Lenin?

He had more historical impact than the Confederacy... Just saying...

If only we got to play whack-a-Lenin in 1918.

[Kramania]

It refers to the taking of private property by the state or by a state sanctioned actor (even individuals and corporations can do it if they are acting for the state). Just compensation, which can be lower than the value.

Seems to me it would be unjust to take property being offered for sale away from someone without compensating them for at least the asking price. One does also wonder to what public use a statue of Lenin would be put.

I think it would be good if you converted it into a public urinal.

[Risottia]

How many Americans did Lenin enslave or kill?

[Alndar]

How many Americans did Lenin enslave or kill?

Depends. How many died in Vietnam and Korea due to Communism?

[Risottia]

If only we got to play whack-a-Lenin in 1918.

America tried to do that. American troops intervened in the Russian Civil War on the White side and occupied Vladivostok. And guess what happened? The Whites and their allies, America included, lost.

[Washington Resistance Army]

If only we got to play whack-a-Lenin in 1918.

America tried to do that. American troops intervened in the Russian Civil War on the White side and occupied Vladivostok. And guess what happened? The Whites and their allies, America included, lost.

Shame the intervention was so half assed. We really should have gone all the way and crushed the reds.

[Risottia]

How many Americans did Lenin enslave or kill?

Depends. How many died in Vietnam and Korea due to Communism?

Do you even know when Lenin died? Or when the Korean war happened?

Also, no, American soldiers didn't die in Vietnam because of Communism. They died there because the US government chose to send them to support the losing faction in a foreign civil war, which America decided to escalate - see Tonkin incident. That blood is on the hands of Ike, JFK and LBJ.

[Risottia]

America tried to do that. American troops intervened in the Russian Civil War on the White side and occupied Vladivostok. And guess what happened? The Whites and their allies, America included, lost.

Shame the intervention was so half assed. We really should have gone all the way and crushed the reds.

That is, assuming America ever had the ability to invade and occupy Russia.
Allow me a fair amount of doubt there.

[Shofercia]

Why not the Emu War?

Because the Pig War was a local event.

America fought a war over the shooting of a pig? Is there anything that America will not fight a war over?

If only we got to play whack-a-Lenin in 1918.

You did. You failed.

America tried to do that. American troops intervened in the Russian Civil War on the White side and occupied Vladivostok. And guess what happened? The Whites and their allies, America included, lost.

Shame the intervention was so half assed. We really should have gone all the way and crushed the reds.

Then the US would've failed even harder. WWI was an Imperialist War. The Russian Civil War was our war, and foreigners would've just gotten their asses kicked. Heck, the half-assed invasion gave quite a bit of a Propaganda and Recruitment Victory to the Reds; imagine what a full scale invasion would've done - the US Army would've been butchered.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Shame the intervention was so half assed. We really should have gone all the way and crushed the reds.

Then the US would've failed even harder. WWI was an Imperialist War. The Russian Civil War was our war, and foreigners would've just gotten their asses kicked. Heck, the half-assed invasion gave quite a bit of a Propaganda and Recruitment Victory to the Reds; imagine what a full scale invasion would've done - the US Army would've been butchered.

Na, we just get the rest of the western powers in on it and we just go around and help the white wherever necessary until the reds are irrelevant. It needed to be done and sadly we didn't do it.

[The Two Jerseys]

If only we got to play whack-a-Lenin in 1918.

America tried to do that. American troops intervened in the Russian Civil War on the White side and occupied Vladivostok. And guess what happened? The Whites and their allies, America included, lost.

The US wasn't actually there to fight the Bolsheviks though, our objectives were only to reopen the Eastern Front against Germany, extract the Czechoslovak Legion from Russia, and secure all the supplies that the Allies sent to the Imperial government.

[The East Marches II]

Then the US would've failed even harder. WWI was an Imperialist War. The Russian Civil War was our war, and foreigners would've just gotten their asses kicked. Heck, the half-assed invasion gave quite a bit of a Propaganda and Recruitment Victory to the Reds; imagine what a full scale invasion would've done - the US Army would've been butchered.

>Failed against glorified bandits

We'd have been home by Christmas, ez pz. We should have done as Churchill said and strangled Bolshevism in the grave. If only we heeded his wise words.

[Kramania]

Then the US would've failed even harder. WWI was an Imperialist War. The Russian Civil War was our war, and foreigners would've just gotten their asses kicked. Heck, the half-assed invasion gave quite a bit of a Propaganda and Recruitment Victory to the Reds; imagine what a full scale invasion would've done - the US Army would've been butchered.

>Failed against glorified bandits

We'd have been home by Christmas, ez pz. We should have done as Churchill said and strangled Bolshevism in the grave. If only we heeded his wise words.

One can only imagine how better off the world would have been without the Soviet Union.

[Kramania]

Because the Pig War was a local event.

America fought a war over the shooting of a pig? Is there anything that America will not fight a war over?

If only we got to play whack-a-Lenin in 1918.

You did. You failed.

Shame the intervention was so half assed. We really should have gone all the way and crushed the reds.

Then the US would've failed even harder. WWI was an Imperialist War. The Russian Civil War was our war, and foreigners would've just gotten their asses kicked. Heck, the half-assed invasion gave quite a bit of a Propaganda and Recruitment Victory to the Reds; imagine what a full scale invasion would've done - the US Army would've been butchered.

Only because our president at the time was a whimp.

[Kramania]

If only we got to play whack-a-Lenin in 1918.

America tried to do that. American troops intervened in the Russian Civil War on the White side and occupied Vladivostok. And guess what happened? The Whites and their allies, America included, lost.

It wasn't an intervention. We weren't there to fight the Bolsheviks.