Becoming Rich!

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Ain't working right now m18. Still studying.

Have you ever worked minimum wage or slightly above it?

I have, I can tell you exactly how much I was earning, too. 8.25 an hour in Texas.

[Olivaero]

The problem that might lead to is that although 100k is a lot for like 2 years would it be enough for all your retirement? I'm not sure if Americans have state pension or not but what saiwana wants is enough to live his retirement out in comfort which you would be looking at millions of pounds in the bank or in stocks to do. whereas 100K over even just 4 years is 25k a year and I'm guessing most people want their retirement to last for more than 4 years. It might last longer if you owned your own home too but thats another couple of hundered k in assets above 100k . and then you've got providing for grandkids, maintaining a car, going on holiday once or twice a year. A couple of million, if you want to live the idealised middle class life til the day you die without working is pretty much what you need really.

No no, I mean 100,000 dollars a year, not for retirement.

I'm not an idiot, of course I want more money in the bank than 100,000 by the time I retire. I think 250,000 + 800 in passive income is enough for me to live back in my home country rather comfortably.

Ah right I get you.

[Imperial Esplanade]

Ain't working right now m18. Still studying.

Have you ever worked minimum wage or slightly above it?

I have, I can tell you exactly how much I was earning, too. 8.25 an hour in Texas.

Shoot, I've had numerous minimum wage-esque jobs - and in a state that collects income tax (Louisiana). Not fun whatsoever....

[New haven america]

1. Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about, you're just spouting off Ultra-Capitalist Libertarian bullshit that's disproven time and time again.

1. Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Botswana and US until 1913 prove my point that economic freedom is good.

How do you think the Recession of 2007-2008 happened? By unregulated bankers and tax companies taking advantage of the poor and working class (Hell, even some in the middle class, thanks Reaganomics) by giving mortgages they told the poor and working class they could afford, and then without telling them, jacking up their rates or hiding hundreds of hidden fees, causing them to go into debt and be unable to pay, and they did this for years.

2. Yeah, because Federal Reserve throwing rates down to 1%, added to the government's stimuluses to housing ownership didn't affect the situation

3. Oh, and regarding the rates being jacked up, it was mysteriously linked to when Greenspan and Bernanke began hiking Fed funds rate again. Coincidence? Yeah, of course!

This isn't hidden knowledge, you just have to do a bit of looking into what happened. But sure, let's give banks and businesses less regulations, because I'm sure they won't fucking try that again.

4. Yeah, except most of the freest economies in the world are the wealthiest and also the ones with the highest HDI. Check it our by yourself.

2. Well, that depends on a lot of factors: Where you live, store and housing prices, inflation, etc... However, the current figure given by the government is about $12,000 annually to stay above the Poverty Line, and a lot of people don't and can't make that much.

5. $12,000 is literally the minimum wage for a 40-hour draft... (and that's for federal, some states put it to $10, $12 a hour)

Also, that figure was given in the 50's, and they didn't take inflation into account, so the actual Poverty Line has risen since then. (BTW, I don't count being in poverty as living, I count it as surviving)

6. So you are just making assumptions for the current poverty line. Great.

Also, since you seem to be so knowledgeable about this, what's the lowest you've lived at? (Mine is $10,224 a year)

7. Ain't working right now m18. Still studying.

1. I seem to remember the great depression happened 15 years after 1913. Also, Hong Kong, Singapore, NZ, ect... do have a few socialist practices (Like UHC for example).
2. Fucking called it, you don't have an argument and you don't know what you're talking about.
3. It's called Predatory Lending. Also, they were serving under a Republican government, which is very much against regulations and very much pro-market, you're own beliefs have failed you.
4. Excluding the US and China, no they're really not, at all. (If fact, the EU is the largest economy in the world, and it's filled with tons of regulations and rules for banks and businesses. Then there's the Nordic countries, who have freer economies despite a higher tax rate)
5. And it's also the current Poverty Line, but that was don't in the 50's and didn't take inflation into account, so it has risen. also, full time jobs aren't in infinite supply.
6. It not an assumption, the current Poverty Line is the minimal cost of food X 3... in 1950/1960, inflation is a thing, and the government hasn't changed the line since the 50's/60's. For someone who loves the free market so much, you don't seem to know a lot about it.
7. You don't have to be the one making the money, your family's earnings count.

I'm done with you, you don't know what you're talking, and it's just getting embarrassing at this point.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

7. You don't have to be the one making the money, your family's earnings counts.

This is where I will disagree with you.

If anyone wants to learn the true value of a dollar, they need to go out there and work. Just saying "well, your family's earning accounts" doesn't cut it for me, personally. Can you have an understanding of money without earning a dollar in your life? Yes, but that doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the reality of a certain income level. When I was working back when I was 18 I thought at first "8.25 is a livable wage, isn't it?" it's when my dad pointed out all the expenses and I did my own research and math that I thought twice about it. Now, I am not saying me and another person can't or won't disagree, but I am saying that to know about money you need to understand what money can buy realistically, and the only way you can do that besides paying close attention to your parents' finances is to make money and spend it, or not.

I mean, I don't plan to kick my kids out at 18 (I will try and give them a college education and all just like my old man did if I have children), but they will have to take a summer job or two because they need to understand the value of money.

[New haven america]

Ain't working right now m18. Still studying.

Have you ever worked minimum wage or slightly above it?

I have, I can tell you exactly how much I was earning, too. 8.25 an hour in Texas.

I don't even work right now and I know how much my family makes.

[Geilinor]

Yeah, except most of the freest economies in the world are the wealthiest and also the ones with the highest HDI. Check it our by yourself.

Sweden and Denmark have freer economies than the US despite high taxes.

[Imperial Esplanade]

Yeah, except most of the freest economies in the world are the wealthiest and also the ones with the highest HDI. Check it our by yourself.

Sweden and Denmark have freer economies than the US despite high taxes.

Yes and no, their economies are very different on a multitude of levels. It's quite unfair to compare the Nordic model with the United States model of capitalism superficially.

[New haven america]

7. You don't have to be the one making the money, your family's earnings counts.

This is where I will disagree with you.

If anyone wants to learn the true value of a dollar, they need to go out there and work. Just saying "well, your family's earning accounts" doesn't cut it for me, personally. Can you have an understanding of money without earning a dollar in your life? Yes, but that doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the reality of a certain income level. When I was working back when I was 18 I thought at first "8.25 is a livable wage, isn't it?" it's when my dad pointed out all the expenses and I did my own research and math that I thought twice about it. Now, I am not saying me and another person can't or won't disagree, but I am saying that to know about money you need to understand what money can buy realistically, and the only way you can do that besides paying close attention to your parents' finances is to make money and spend it, or not.

I mean, I don't plan to kick my kids out at 18 (I will try and give them a college education and all just like my old man did if I have children), but they will have to take a summer job or two because they need to understand the value of money.

And I have to disagree with you.

I've been living near or under the Poverty Line since I was 3 (Due to various circumstances). I understand how difficult living in this economy is, even as a kid, I knew. I know $8.25 isn't livable, I know what it's like being homeless, I know how hard finding jobs can be (Hell, there are almost no decent jobs in my town, and schools don't do a good jobs teaching people how to get in the job market).

[Shofercia]

It goes without saying that no one wants to be poor, that means you are very restricted in what you're able to do financially. In any economy, it seems that there will be haves and have nots. The haves can live life more easily, provided they live within their means and have ways of preserving that wealth, such as the ownership of assets which bring in passive income. The have nots, have to focus most of their energies on merely surviving and consequently, they don't enjoy any good quality of life, they often die earlier, and that is truly a pity.

What is the best means of becoming wealthy in your opinion, statistically speaking?

I think it might lie with investing in the stock market. What I'm inspired by is Ronald Read, who was a janitor who was low income for most of his entire life, only earning $12/hour at J.C. Penny's but managed to build a fortune of $8 million before he passed away at 92 years of age.

If he spent his money like ordinary people, he'd have definitely remained poor- but he found ways to make sacrifices to instead put that into investing, he never paid attention to stock charts or tried to beat the market. He just steadily built up enough equity in the most profitable companies in the world across a wide range of industries, a perfectly diversified portfolio which wasn't over-diversified either, less than 100 companies. All of the holdings being dividend stocks which were blue chip. The dividends were reinvested to build up even more equity and he repeated this process until it compounded to him getting $20,000/month in dividends which definitely would've pulled him out of poverty at that point.

I want to try to do what he did! I don't have to reach the same result, but if there is something that will enable me to do better than I was yesterday, I'll consider that a success. Of course, what works for one person may not be the answer for another person.

If everyone was able to invest in the stock market, I'd think that perhaps companies wouldn't be so willing to pay dividends. But if you built up equity in profitable companies, your investment probably will still grow overtime, provided the economy keeps growing from year to year.

Blue chip stocks are worth a lot because these are businesses which are expected to keep being around because they know how to do business. The penny stocks are worth pennies because these are capital starved upstarts which rarely survive and quickly go bankrupt and thus are much more of a risk. If one of the stocks you own goes bankrupt, you only lose the amount invested in that one stock, if you have a good portfolio, you could absorb such losses.

The potential boon to your earning potential and thus being able to live how you want, is why I want to learn how to invest. There are certainly obstacles in your way such as brokerage fees and so on, and it takes decades or longer before you can really "cash out" but the point is, it can be done and it will be there if you make the smart decisions.

If a janitor can do it, I don't see why anyone who has a job can't too at least to some extent. I certainly don't believe that everyone can become rich, but it is possible to become better off than you were. What can you be doing today that will get you richer than yesterday?

Having a successful start up is the best way to go, IMHO. Or Revolutionizing an Industry. Stock Market is a tad risky, what if you invest and two months later, a bubble bursts. You're fucked.

[Saiwania]

I mean, I don't plan to kick my kids out at 18 (I will try and give them a college education and all just like my old man did if I have children), but they will have to take a summer job or two because they need to understand the value of money.

I can't give any children I have any college education. If they want that, they need to do well enough in K-12 to get scholarships. College didn't help me, instead I got a lost decade after 2008. I tried too hard to break into a specific industry and I couldn't manage to do it where I live, and I think I should've instead tried taking anything and everything sooner so that I'd at least have a worthy resume.

Something such as stock investing, is perhaps my only hope.

If I became homeless, I'm going to need to assume that it'll be nearly impossible to get myself out. But I have to do it, there is no choice. When life gets tough, you have to be tougher to survive. I'm optimistic that at any wage, I could find cutthroat ways to grow my way out. There would of course, be a lot of bullshit and obstacles in the way, but it can be bashed through or bypassed, I firmly believe that. So determined and driven that the cycle of poverty won't be able to keep me poor.

Most people stay in the social class they were born into, statistically speaking. But in my case, I'd be falling from middle class to the bottom if nothing changes. Being unemployed for too long just has you screwed, it has a nasty tendency to reinforce your unemployment.

[The East Marches II]

It goes without saying that no one wants to be poor, that means you are very restricted in what you're able to do financially. In any economy, it seems that there will be haves and have nots. The haves can live life more easily, provided they live within their means and have ways of preserving that wealth, such as the ownership of assets which bring in passive income. The have nots, have to focus most of their energies on merely surviving and consequently, they don't enjoy any good quality of life, they often die earlier, and that is truly a pity.

What is the best means of becoming wealthy in your opinion, statistically speaking?

I think it might lie with investing in the stock market. What I'm inspired by is Ronald Read, who was a janitor who was low income for most of his entire life, only earning $12/hour at J.C. Penny's but managed to build a fortune of $8 million before he passed away at 92 years of age.

If he spent his money like ordinary people, he'd have definitely remained poor- but he found ways to make sacrifices to instead put that into investing, he never paid attention to stock charts or tried to beat the market. He just steadily built up enough equity in the most profitable companies in the world across a wide range of industries, a perfectly diversified portfolio which wasn't over-diversified either, less than 100 companies. All of the holdings being dividend stocks which were blue chip. The dividends were reinvested to build up even more equity and he repeated this process until it compounded to him getting $20,000/month in dividends which definitely would've pulled him out of poverty at that point.

I want to try to do what he did! I don't have to reach the same result, but if there is something that will enable me to do better than I was yesterday, I'll consider that a success. Of course, what works for one person may not be the answer for another person.

If everyone was able to invest in the stock market, I'd think that perhaps companies wouldn't be so willing to pay dividends. But if you built up equity in profitable companies, your investment probably will still grow overtime, provided the economy keeps growing from year to year.

Blue chip stocks are worth a lot because these are businesses which are expected to keep being around because they know how to do business. The penny stocks are worth pennies because these are capital starved upstarts which rarely survive and quickly go bankrupt and thus are much more of a risk. If one of the stocks you own goes bankrupt, you only lose the amount invested in that one stock, if you have a good portfolio, you could absorb such losses.

The potential boon to your earning potential and thus being able to live how you want, is why I want to learn how to invest. There are certainly obstacles in your way such as brokerage fees and so on, and it takes decades or longer before you can really "cash out" but the point is, it can be done and it will be there if you make the smart decisions.

If a janitor can do it, I don't see why anyone who has a job can't too at least to some extent. I certainly don't believe that everyone can become rich, but it is possible to become better off than you were. What can you be doing today that will get you richer than yesterday?

Having a successful start up is the best way to go, IMHO. Or Revolutionizing an Industry. Stock Market is a tad risky, what if you invest and two months later, a bubble bursts. You're fucked.

That's if we believe in the myth of a free market. Uncle Sam steps in and artificially props things up. It's easier to get rich off the stock market in the long term. God gave us stop losses for a reason.

[Saiwania]

Having a successful start up is the best way to go, IMHO. Or Revolutionizing an Industry. Stock Market is a tad risky, what if you invest and two months later, a bubble bursts. You're fucked.

You're not screwed if your portfolio is diversified and is of good enough quality in terms of stock picks. A good portfolio can absorb losses. In fact, I'd want all of my stocks to almost fall to zero so that I could buy up as much as I could. When it is years later and the market is fully recovered, you can make a big windfall when you're ready to sell and would be happy with the return.

If one or a few stocks go bankrupt- oh well. You at least lose only the amount you invested in that one stock, instead of your entire portfolio.

[Shofercia]

What can you be doing today that will get you richer than yesterday?

If you are somewhere near a dummy-level, save as much money from your paycheck (preferably 20-30%) and find an administration/finances course. Read about financial stuff on internet may help too. (If you are not a dummy, skip this step)


Now you aren't a dummy anymore, try to invest in the stock market (there's a pretty good Discord server that helps you with stock investing, but since that may be counted as advertising PM me for more info), funds and even Yen carry trade. Of course, you will get upturns and downturns, but there'll be a long term bias which will increase the green bills available in your purse. Personally, I live in Brazil and interest rates are high here, so fuck stocks and hail saving accounts

Actually you bring up an interesting point in terms of currency swaps. If you have the brainpower and the time, currency swaps work wonders. I made the most money in a day by defending the Ruble. Of course for this you have to put emotion aside, and only defend/attack currencies when they're drastically below/above their natural rates. At that time the natural rate was 65, and the buck got me 80 Rubles. Sure enough, it fell back to 60ish the next day

There are a lot of rich people out there who aren't very intelligent. Maybe you can attempt to manipulate them to do your bidding.

Works really well if you're the vice president, and your friends' companies get no bid contracts to rebuild a country that the president just destroyed.

I found the more I read about investing money in the stock market, the less it seemed like a good idea.

Investing money in the stock market, to me, seems very much like gambling.

It's why I don't really go after the stock market, myself.

Now I know there's people who have stocks, and that's great, I'm just not one of those people.

It pretty much is.

is that from that stupid incident with the passenger? It cost them that much?

Oh dear...

It wasn't the incident, as much as it was the way they handled it. You don't say "I am sorry to reaccommodate you" after your employees beat someone up on live TV, on behalf of your company.

Sounds a lot like the gambler's fallacy to me.

A stock isn't guaranteed to ever go back up, but if it still pays you dividends, it isn't worthless to have in your portfolio. More passive income means more money with which to reinvest or help you meet expenses so that you can live your life just a tiny bit better. I know that just that one stock, Bank of America, might've netted me $20k. That would've been enough to outright buy a nice car.

Instead of kicking myself and thinking about what might've been, instead I want to somehow get a job so I can actually do investing, every chance I get. No selling, only buying, holding, and increasing the amount of dividends coming in. Sell when you've amassed enough wealth to live off of. It must be a solid plan. Who doesn't want to retire early or live the easy life eventually?

I don't actually like dividend based stocks, because they're paying money out, instead of reinvesting it into the stock and raising its equity. It also causes tax inefficiency.

[Saiwania]

I don't actually like dividend based stocks, because they're paying money out, instead of reinvesting it into the stock and raising its equity. It also causes tax inefficiency.

You would like dividends if you want to eventually use it as additional income in addition to or in lieu of a regular job. With regular stocks, you don't make any money until you sell and the right time to "cash out" can take years if not decades.

[Coconut Isle]

Having a successful start up is the best way to go, IMHO. Or Revolutionizing an Industry. Stock Market is a tad risky, what if you invest and two months later, a bubble bursts. You're fucked.

You're not screwed if your portfolio is diversified and is of good enough quality in terms of stock picks. A good portfolio can absorb losses. In fact, I'd want all of my stocks to almost fall to zero so that I could buy up as much as I could. When it is years later and the market is fully recovered, you can make a big windfall when you're ready to sell and would be happy with the return.

No... even the most perfectly diversified portfolios are exposed to systematic risk: The Dow Jones and the Nikkei indices took 6/8 years respectively to get back to their old peaks pre-GFC. Stock prices are an indicator of risk and future cash flows. Prices are low for a reason, and while averaging down is a possible strategy, more often than not you're going to see the downside rather than any benefit. Successful companies don't have extremely cheap stocks. Also, let's say you miraculously made a big windfall: congratulations - get ready to pay taxes on the dividends and especially on the capital gains.

[Saiwania]

Successful companies don't have extremely cheap stocks. Also, let's say you miraculously made a big windfall: congratulations - get ready to pay taxes on the dividends and especially on the capital gains.

I'm okay with taxation because even afterwards- I'd still be left with more than the amount I'd invested. I approve of a progressive system of taxation. In the US' case, many of its taxes are regressive unfortunately and full of loopholes for the super rich.

I would not be extremely wealthy by any means, I'd be just someone trying my best to do well and is willing to accept risk to get gains.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Learning to measure your life beyond material wealth

[Shofercia]

The reason why I compare it to gambling is because you don't have control of what's happening.

You do. Every company is required to post stats of their financial health quarterly. Moreover, there are always the financial news you can watch out for.

That's assuming that no company ever lies.

Work harder for a while so you can get more money to get more money through education investing. You ain't climbing the social ladder without taking risks.

Working hard isn't going to make you any money.

I am not going to make any more money by learning how to carry 120 pounds than I would just carrying 80 pounds at a job.

I mean, if you want to stay in the same job forever, sure, go ahead, kill yourself out. People who rise up the ladder don't do so with "hard work". They're just good at what they do and they make money for the company, so, they can negotiate their terms whenever and wherever they want to to keep working for a company.

Being good at what you do, however, doesn't necessarily mean you're working any harder than the guy who spends 5 hours solving what you can in 1. If anything, you're putting less effort than what the other person is.

If you're the only guy who knows how to handle certain key issues in the company, it's very easy to rise up

[Saiwania]

No... even the most perfectly diversified portfolios are exposed to systematic risk: The Dow Jones and the Nikkei indices took 6/8 years respectively to get back to their old peaks pre-GFC. Stock prices are an indicator of risk and future cash flows. Prices are low for a reason, and while averaging down is a possible strategy, more often than not you're going to see the downside rather than any benefit. Successful companies don't have extremely cheap stocks. Also, let's say you miraculously made a big windfall: congratulations - get ready to pay taxes on the dividends and especially on the capital gains.

You only lose money on paper. It isn't like you lose money immediately if your portfolio is in the red. You lose money if you sell below what you bought that stock at or if it goes bankrupt- in which case, you only lose the amount invested in that one bad stock.

If most of your stocks still survive and avoid bankruptcy, you'll be in a good position to profit if you bought when the market was way down. When the market is way up, that is the time to "cash out" if you estimate that you'll be rich enough.

[Salandriagado]

It goes without saying that no one wants to be poor, that means you are very restricted in what you're able to do financially. In any economy, it seems that there will be haves and have nots. The haves can live life more easily, provided they live within their means and have ways of preserving that wealth, such as the ownership of assets which bring in passive income. The have nots, have to focus most of their energies on merely surviving and consequently, they don't enjoy any good quality of life, they often die earlier, and that is truly a pity.

What is the best means of becoming wealthy in your opinion, statistically speaking?

I think it might lie with investing in the stock market. What I'm inspired by is Ronald Read, who was a janitor who was low income for most of his entire life, only earning $12/hour at J.C. Penny's but managed to build a fortune of $8 million before he passed away at 92 years of age.

If he spent his money like ordinary people, he'd have definitely remained poor- but he found ways to make sacrifices to instead put that into investing, he never paid attention to stock charts or tried to beat the market. He just steadily built up enough equity in the most profitable companies in the world across a wide range of industries, a perfectly diversified portfolio which wasn't over-diversified either, less than 100 companies. All of the holdings being dividend stocks which were blue chip. The dividends were reinvested to build up even more equity and he repeated this process until it compounded to him getting $20,000/month in dividends which definitely would've pulled him out of poverty at that point.

I want to try to do what he did! I don't have to reach the same result, but if there is something that will enable me to do better than I was yesterday, I'll consider that a success. Of course, what works for one person may not be the answer for another person.

If everyone was able to invest in the stock market, I'd think that perhaps companies wouldn't be so willing to pay dividends. But if you built up equity in profitable companies, your investment probably will still grow overtime, provided the economy keeps growing from year to year.

Blue chip stocks are worth a lot because these are businesses which are expected to keep being around because they know how to do business. The penny stocks are worth pennies because these are capital starved upstarts which rarely survive and quickly go bankrupt and thus are much more of a risk. If one of the stocks you own goes bankrupt, you only lose the amount invested in that one stock, if you have a good portfolio, you could absorb such losses.

The potential boon to your earning potential and thus being able to live how you want, is why I want to learn how to invest. There are certainly obstacles in your way such as brokerage fees and so on, and it takes decades or longer before you can really "cash out" but the point is, it can be done and it will be there if you make the smart decisions.

If a janitor can do it, I don't see why anyone who has a job can't too at least to some extent. I certainly don't believe that everyone can become rich, but it is possible to become better off than you were. What can you be doing today that will get you richer than yesterday?

Having a successful start up is the best way to go, IMHO. Or Revolutionizing an Industry. Stock Market is a tad risky, what if you invest and two months later, a bubble bursts. You're fucked.

You seem to be under the impression that start ups are a safe option.

[Saiwania]

My new flag reflects my inner most deepest desire. I chose to embrace worship of the almighty dollar!
Becoming rich can be thought of as being able to break free of the tyranny of capitalism. If your material needs are met, you can live as you want.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

You seem to be under the impression that start ups are a safe option.

Startups do take a considerable amount of risk, but it's not as risky as the stock market.

Between starting a new company, or playing the stock market, I would go with starting a new company. There's more control over monetary operations, and there's no hope of income from it unless you take an effort. It's not like in the stock market where you can lose that money.

[Saiwania]

Startups do take a considerable amount of risk, but it's not as risky as the stock market.

Between starting a new company, or playing the stock market, I would go with starting a new company. There's more control over monetary operations, and there's no hope of income from it unless you take an effort. It's not like in the stock market where you can lose that money.

It is a hell of a lot riskier in my view. Most new businesses fail. If you don't have a solid business plan, it won't survive. Good luck if the competition within that industry doesn't crush the new company.

A company needs to have existed for at least 10 years before I'd consider buying shares from them. I have more faith in mature and already existing big businesses along with the annual growth of the economy than I do in brand new companies which are untested.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Startups do take a considerable amount of risk, but it's not as risky as the stock market.

Between starting a new company, or playing the stock market, I would go with starting a new company. There's more control over monetary operations, and there's no hope of income from it unless you take an effort. It's not like in the stock market where you can lose that money.

It is a hell of a lot riskier in my view. Most new businesses fail. If you don't have a solid business plan, it won't survive. Good luck if the competition within that industry doesn't crush the new company.

A company needs to have existed for at least 10 years before I'd consider buying shares from them. I have more faith in mature and already existing big businesses along with the annual growth of the economy than I do in brand new companies which are untested.

Well, your company doesn't have to crush every other competition out there. Many one-person businesses can give you a run for the money you invest in it. I'd say it is less risky in the sense that you can do something that you're good at instead of depending on other people to be good at what you think they're good at and hoping that they make a profit for you.