Are YOUR eye contact habits racist?

[USS Monitor]

Avoiding eye contact with black people is racist, but it's mild enough that we don't need to make a big stink about it every time someone does it.

You know what we do need to do? Wrap our heads around the idea that there is such a thing as mild racism. In other words, learn how to talk about things being racist without the implication that every racist thing is a national emergency. Understand that people can have a couple of racist habits or mild biases without being bad people overall. Nobody's perfect, after all.

A lot of people -- sometimes including me -- do have racist eye-contact habits, and we should be able to talk about that and point it out as racist without having a big fucking controversy. It's just a product of living in a society that has unresolved race issues, even for people that aren't white supremacists. It doesn't always mean the person is hateful. Sometimes they're a good person who just feels uncomfortable with the whole race thing, but they have no problem with people of other races if you can get past that awkwardness. Most of the time, I don't think people are even doing it on purpose. I'm dating a black guy and don't have any particular ill-will toward black people, but I still catch myself doing the awkward avoid-eye-contact thing once in a while. Like I said, it's a product of living in a divided society and it's not necessarily intentional.

[Jello Biafra]

"Social exclusion is the process in which individuals or people are systematically blocked from (or denied full access to) various rights, opportunities and resources that are normally available to members of a different group, and which are fundamental to social integration and observance of human rights within that particular group (e.g., housing, employment, healthcare, civic engagement, democratic participation, and due process)."

A marginalized group would be a group that suffers from social exclusion.

so can you explain to me how non-white people can be marginalised on the basis of their race but white people can't, since social exclusion is not associated to race by this definition.

Race is not specifically mentioned in this definition, but it falls under the broad headings of "people" and "a different group".
Can you give examples of white people not having access to housing, employment, healthcare, civic engagement, democratic participation, and due process in ways that other groups have those things normally available to them?

[Internationalist Bastard]

Ok, no. That's just people reading way too much into stupid stuff

http://news.ucsc.edu/2016/10/byrd-microaggressions.html

Saying you didn't expect someone to be gay? C'mon, this shits just overboard

[Soyouso]

...Not looking people in the eye causes harm now?
Can you elaborate on what you mean?

Of course I'm not referring to any kind of physical harm, but I believe, consistent with psychological research, that micro-aggressions are psychologically harmful.

There is a difference between looking down at your work while not looking at someone, and deliberately acting like a royal who wants people to avert their eyes.
How is not looking at someone enough to cause psychological harm? I know you don't mean trauma level of harm.

[36 Camera Perspective]

Avoiding eye contact with black people is racist, but it's mild enough that we don't need to make a big stink about it every time someone does it.

You know what we do need to do? Wrap our heads around the idea that there is such a thing as mild racism. In other words, learn how to talk about things being racist without the implication that every racist thing is a national emergency. Understand that people can have a couple of racist habits or mild biases without being bad people overall. Nobody's perfect, after all.

A lot of people -- sometimes including me -- do have racist eye-contact habits, and we should be able to talk about that and point it out as racist without having a big fucking controversy. It's just a product of living in a society that has unresolved race issues, even for people that aren't white supremacists. It doesn't always mean the person is hateful. Sometimes they're a good person who just feels uncomfortable with the whole race thing, but they have no problem with people of other races if you can get past that awkwardness. Most of the time, I don't think people are even doing it on purpose. I'm dating a black guy and don't have any particular ill-will toward black people, but I still catch myself doing the awkward avoid-eye-contact thing once in a while. Like I said, it's a product of living in a divided society and it's not necessarily intentional.

Thank you.

We just need to have conversations and bring awareness to our unconscious habits so that we're less of dicks to each other. There's no reason to shame, no reason to get all riled up, no reason to hit the bottle like Gallo and Balk.

[Rodez]

I don't know about you guys, but I've mastered a particularly racist gaze and use it to stare down people of color all the time.

But do they think you hate them or you're constipated?

A fair concern. Obviously you can't put it on all the time or they do get the latter impression. Eye twitches generally assist with the intimidation factor.

[Bressen]

so can you explain to me how non-white people can be marginalised on the basis of their race but white people can't, since social exclusion is not associated to race by this definition.

Race is not specifically mentioned in this definition, but it falls under the broad headings of "people" and "a different group".
Can you give examples of white people not having access to housing, employment, healthcare, civic engagement, democratic participation, and due process in ways that other groups have those things normally available to them?

can you give me current systematic examples of non-white people not having access to these things?

[36 Camera Perspective]

http://news.ucsc.edu/2016/10/byrd-microaggressions.html

Saying you didn't expect someone to be gay? C'mon, this shits just overboard

It's annoying and stereotypical, especially when repeated over multiple instances. And as you saw in the summary, the harmful effects are real.

[Tekeristan]

That's illegal, I believe.

The law is just a piece of paper; practice is a different matter.

And how do you plan to fix that?
Attitudes are changing. Give it time.

I'll allow people the freedom to point there eyes where they like to.
Or to say what they want to (not going overboard, ofc).
Or the freedom to have their preferences,
And so forth..

[Internationalist Bastard]

Avoiding eye contact with black people is racist, but it's mild enough that we don't need to make a big stink about it every time someone does it.

You know what we do need to do? Wrap our heads around the idea that there is such a thing as mild racism. In other words, learn how to talk about things being racist without the implication that every racist thing is a national emergency. Understand that people can have a couple of racist habits or mild biases without being bad people overall. Nobody's perfect, after all.

A lot of people -- sometimes including me -- do have racist eye-contact habits, and we should be able to talk about that and point it out as racist without having a big fucking controversy. It's just a product of living in a society that has unresolved race issues, even for people that aren't white supremacists. It doesn't always mean the person is hateful. Sometimes they're a good person who just feels uncomfortable with the whole race thing, but they have no problem with people of other races if you can get past that awkwardness. Most of the time, I don't think people are even doing it on purpose. I'm dating a black guy and don't have any particular ill-will toward black people, but I still catch myself doing the awkward avoid-eye-contact thing once in a while. Like I said, it's a product of living in a divided society and it's not necessarily intentional.

Thank you. I will admit I do occasionally offensive things, but it's not like I'm trying to destroy them or anything

[Telconi]

Avoiding eye contact with black people is racist, but it's mild enough that we don't need to make a big stink about it every time someone does it.

You know what we do need to do? Wrap our heads around the idea that there is such a thing as mild racism. In other words, learn how to talk about things being racist without the implication that every racist thing is a national emergency. Understand that people can have a couple of racist habits or mild biases without being bad people overall. Nobody's perfect, after all.

A lot of people -- sometimes including me -- do have racist eye-contact habits, and we should be able to talk about that and point it out as racist without having a big fucking controversy. It's just a product of living in a society that has unresolved race issues, even for people that aren't white supremacists. It doesn't always mean the person is hateful. Sometimes they're a good person who just feels uncomfortable with the whole race thing, but they have no problem with people of other races if you can get past that awkwardness. Most of the time, I don't think people are even doing it on purpose. I'm dating a black guy and don't have any particular ill-will toward black people, but I still catch myself doing the awkward avoid-eye-contact thing once in a while. Like I said, it's a product of living in a divided society and it's not necessarily intentional.

What a reasonable vessel of war.


Also, no, my eye contact habits aren't racist. Mostly overcompensated autism.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Saying you didn't expect someone to be gay? C'mon, this shits just overboard

It's annoying and stereotypical, especially when repeated over multiple instances. And as you saw in the summary, the harmful effects are real.

Uh huh. As a kid I got beat up for being gay. Somebody stating they didn't expect me to be gay is literally nothing

[Bressen]

Avoiding eye contact with black people is racist.

only if you're avoiding eye contact on the basis that they're black, which has to be a conscious decision in order for it to be recognised. microaggressions are inherently unconscious processes, so if you were to avoid eye contact with someone with X skin colour on the basis that they have X skin colour, you're making a conscious decision and it is thus not a microaggression.

people that talk about microaggressions are effectively claiming to have knowledge or insight into someone's unconscious processes on the basis of that person's conscious decisions. i don't know how this is objective when it's so open to personal interpretation.

[36 Camera Perspective]

It's annoying and stereotypical, especially when repeated over multiple instances. And as you saw in the summary, the harmful effects are real.

Uh huh. As a kid I got beat up for being gay. Somebody stating they didn't expect me to be gay is literally nothing

For you maybe.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Uh huh. As a kid I got beat up for being gay. Somebody stating they didn't expect me to be gay is literally nothing

For you maybe.

For most people I imagine, since that's like, one of the most calm reactions I've ever heard in my life

[Salandriagado]

Source?


"A microaggression is the casual degradation of any marginalized group."

Not that difficult, in'nit ?

Just last year, we've had gene drives, which is probably the single most important medical discovery since antibiotics, no fewer than three serious proposals for Mars missions, metallic hydrogen, potentially the best conventional (meaning non-nuclear, non-antimatter) fuel possible, technology to extract clean water from air, serious steps towards reversing paralysis, major advances in quantum computing, and hot solar panels. If you think we aren't making massive discoveries, you aren't paying attention.

[36 Camera Perspective]

For you maybe.

For most people I imagine, since that's like, one of the most calm reactions I've ever heard in my life

All I can say is that the study seems to indicate otherwise.

[Galloism]

Ok, no. That's just people reading way too much into stupid stuff

http://news.ucsc.edu/2016/10/byrd-microaggressions.html

This seems to suffer the chicken or the egg problem.

[Tekeristan]

For you maybe.

For most people I imagine, since that's like, one of the most calm reactions I've ever heard in my life

Isn't it a numbers thing too?
Most people aren't gay. Odds are the person you meet isn't.
Nonetheless, I fail to see how when you meet people and they don't give the thought that your gay is something over all harmful? It's not exactly something everyone advertises.
And it's something to get sad/depressed/ or angry about?

[36 Camera Perspective]

http://news.ucsc.edu/2016/10/byrd-microaggressions.html

This seems to suffer the chicken or the egg problem.

Not when you have people of color telling you which came first.

[Neutraligon]

Not that difficult, in'nit ?

Just last year, we've had gene drives, which is probably the single most important medical discovery since antibiotics, no fewer than three serious proposals for Mars missions, metallic hydrogen, potentially the best conventional (meaning non-nuclear, non-antimatter) fuel possible, technology to extract clean water from air, serious steps towards reversing paralysis, major advances in quantum computing, and hot solar panels. If you think we aren't making massive discoveries, you aren't paying attention.

Don't forget that most stuff in robotics is relatively recent, and the controls fields are definitely advancing (looking at you mars rover).

[Internationalist Bastard]

For most people I imagine, since that's like, one of the most calm reactions I've ever heard in my life

All I can say is that the study seems to indicate otherwise.

My point remains this is absurd, and I'm going to focus on actual issues

[Internationalist Bastard]

For most people I imagine, since that's like, one of the most calm reactions I've ever heard in my life

Isn't it a numbers thing too?
Most people aren't gay. Odds are the person you meet isn't.
Nonetheless, I fail to see how when you meet people and they don't give the thought that your gay is something over all harmful? It's not exactly something everyone advertises.
And it's something to get sad/depressed/ or angry about?

It's a statement.
Like, "oh, you're gay, I wasn't expecting that"
No insult, nothing

[Tekeristan]

Isn't it a numbers thing too?
Most people aren't gay. Odds are the person you meet isn't.
Nonetheless, I fail to see how when you meet people and they don't give the thought that your gay is something over all harmful? It's not exactly something everyone advertises.
And it's something to get sad/depressed/ or angry about?

It's a statement.
Like, "oh, you're gay, I wasn't expecting that"
No insult, nothing

If that insults, angers, or depresses someone, they may be a little sensitive..
Which is probably why a lot of people don't really take this seriously. We can't be padded and braced our whole lives.

[Jello Biafra]

Race is not specifically mentioned in this definition, but it falls under the broad headings of "people" and "a different group".
Can you give examples of white people not having access to housing, employment, healthcare, civic engagement, democratic participation, and due process in ways that other groups have those things normally available to them?

can you give me current systematic examples of non-white people not having access to these things?

A not exhaustive sample:

U.S. News

Nothing illustrates the difference between justice for the races than the war on drugs. Whites and blacks use drugs at roughly the same rate – there isn’t a statistically significant difference, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Black people, however, are arrested for drug use at a much higher rate. At the disparities’ peak in the late 1980s and early 1990s, blacks were five times more likely to be arrested for drugs than whites were.

It would appear that black people do not have the access to due process that white people do.

Washington Post

The panel seemed to say it found the equivalent of a smoking gun. “Before enacting that law, the legislature requested data on the use, by race, of a number of voting practices,” Motz wrote. “Upon receipt of the race data, the General Assembly enacted legislation that restricted voting and registration in five different ways, all of which disproportionately affected African Americans.”

The panel found the law was passed with racially discriminatory intent, violating the Constitution and the Voting Rights Act. It said that “intentionally targeting a particular race’s access to the franchise because its members vote for a particular party, in a predictable manner, constitutes discriminatory purpose.”

There was a systematic attempt by the government of North Carolina to deprive black people the access to democratic participation that white people have.

Fortune

Last year, four researchers—John Nunley, economics professor at the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse, Adam Pugh at CUNA Mutual Group in Madison, Wisconsin, Nicholas Romero, an economics professor at the University of Pennsylvania, and Richard Seals, an economics professor at Auburn University in Alabama—conducted an experiment to understand the job market for recent college graduates in the wake of the Great Recession.

They submitted 9,400 fake resumes of nonexistent recent college graduates through online job applications for positions based in Atlanta, Baltimore, Portland, Oregon, Los Angeles, Boston, and Minneapolis. They sent four resumes per job and randomly changed certain variables in the applications, such as college major, work experience, gender, and race....

The results? Young African-Americans still face persistent discrimination in the job market, and it is not tied to socioeconomic status, a lack of a degree, or other factors...

The discrimination gap existed in every city.

Employers systematically discriminate against black people,meaning they don't have the same access to employment opportunities that white people have.