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by StubbsAlbany » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:37 am
by The Corparation » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:38 am
Valkenburg aan de Geul wrote:The Bleeding Roses wrote:Glorious Homeland wrote:The Bleeding Roses wrote:They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...
The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD
Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit
1 country versus 44747747474 countries...
Ill take my chances.
America is 50 states, the EU is 30-40statecountries.
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by Adultland » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:39 am
Glorious Homeland wrote:The Bleeding Roses wrote:They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...
The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD
Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit
by Arthropoda Ingens » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:43 am
'k. You've successfully convinced me that yes, you are in fact illiterate.Glorious Homeland wrote:Arthropoda Ingens wrote:Conserative Morality wrote:What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?Arthropoda Ingens wrote:There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.
A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe.Glorious Homeland wrote:Oh, I don't know; we can apparently manage large welfare systems that empower the poor, reduce income inequality, raise opportunity, and yet also grow faster post-recession AND have a bigger GDP than the USA? How is that rose-tinted?
Unless you're measuring American success in terms of negative growth and income inequality? That must be it.Arthropoda Ingens wrote:Are you illiterate or something?Congrats, that's now twice in a row that you're not getting what I was referring to. Some self-delusional sense of importance that makes you feel addressed when you really... Well... Weren't?Glorious Homeland wrote:The point is that recent figures are proving American's economic approach inferior to ours, in general. We can be progressive socially and economically progressive too. Why can't the USA be both? Lazy Americans? That's what the right put the poor down to anyway isn't it? Laziness, I guess Americans must just be much lazier than the average European, if they can't manage decent social provisions and economic expansion?
Though, even acknowledging this, you still failed to read & comprehend the post, anyway.
You're trying to dismiss the original post by saying it only appeases some "minorities". The point is the aforementioned successes, not to distract from them to say "oh well it doesn't really matter, this is just about your sense of entitlement or empowerment". No, it's because I'm sick of hearing reams of shit about how the American system is economically better, and how our welfare states are useless, and all that, while we're actually doing quite damn good right now considering; especially in direct contrast to the USA. But no, America's always better because... well, for some reason we can't measure in GDP or income inequality, or even number of people in prison or things like that. Because apparently those sorts of measurements are irrelevant! My initial point is not insubstantial, you can attempt to dismiss it all you like; but that's not an accurate assessment.
by Adultland » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:45 am
Glorious Homeland wrote:EvilDarkMagicians wrote:Conserative Morality wrote:Glorious Homeland wrote:What's that America? A group of countries with large spending on universal healthcare and welfare policies are growing much faster economically post-recession than you? *dances*
What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?
Hopefully as our economy improve, we'll stop being xenophobic.
Fat chance that will happen, but I'm optimistic.
Besides, does he forget the KKK? In the UK second generation black immigrants generally earn more than their white peers. In the USA blacks in general earn less than their white peers. Don't think our friend can comment as if the USA is magically tolerant....
by Glorious Homeland » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:47 am
Adultland wrote:Glorious Homeland wrote:The Bleeding Roses wrote:They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...
The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD
Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit
So can we cash in on the money Germany and the rest of you owe us for rebuilding you lot after one of your many disastrous wars?
Arthropoda Ingens wrote:'k. You've successfully convinced me that yes, you are in fact illiterate.Glorious Homeland wrote:Arthropoda Ingens wrote:Conserative Morality wrote:What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?Arthropoda Ingens wrote:There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.
A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe.Glorious Homeland wrote:Oh, I don't know; we can apparently manage large welfare systems that empower the poor, reduce income inequality, raise opportunity, and yet also grow faster post-recession AND have a bigger GDP than the USA? How is that rose-tinted?
Unless you're measuring American success in terms of negative growth and income inequality? That must be it.Arthropoda Ingens wrote:Are you illiterate or something?Congrats, that's now twice in a row that you're not getting what I was referring to. Some self-delusional sense of importance that makes you feel addressed when you really... Well... Weren't?Glorious Homeland wrote:The point is that recent figures are proving American's economic approach inferior to ours, in general. We can be progressive socially and economically progressive too. Why can't the USA be both? Lazy Americans? That's what the right put the poor down to anyway isn't it? Laziness, I guess Americans must just be much lazier than the average European, if they can't manage decent social provisions and economic expansion?
Though, even acknowledging this, you still failed to read & comprehend the post, anyway.
You're trying to dismiss the original post by saying it only appeases some "minorities". The point is the aforementioned successes, not to distract from them to say "oh well it doesn't really matter, this is just about your sense of entitlement or empowerment". No, it's because I'm sick of hearing reams of shit about how the American system is economically better, and how our welfare states are useless, and all that, while we're actually doing quite damn good right now considering; especially in direct contrast to the USA. But no, America's always better because... well, for some reason we can't measure in GDP or income inequality, or even number of people in prison or things like that. Because apparently those sorts of measurements are irrelevant! My initial point is not insubstantial, you can attempt to dismiss it all you like; but that's not an accurate assessment.
Thrice in a row. Go for gold, man.
Adultland wrote:Glorious Homeland wrote:EvilDarkMagicians wrote:Conserative Morality wrote:Glorious Homeland wrote:What's that America? A group of countries with large spending on universal healthcare and welfare policies are growing much faster economically post-recession than you? *dances*
What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?
Hopefully as our economy improve, we'll stop being xenophobic.
Fat chance that will happen, but I'm optimistic.
Besides, does he forget the KKK? In the UK second generation black immigrants generally earn more than their white peers. In the USA blacks in general earn less than their white peers. Don't think our friend can comment as if the USA is magically tolerant....
Thats because your immigrants actually come for an education and a better chance at life while generally blacks in America have an anti-intellectual culture.
by Zomerania » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:54 am
by Arthropoda Ingens » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:58 am
You must be working under the assumption that my initial reply was to you.Glorious Homeland wrote:Arthropoda Ingens wrote:'k. You've successfully convinced me that yes, you are in fact illiterate.Glorious Homeland wrote:Arthropoda Ingens wrote:Conserative Morality wrote:What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?Arthropoda Ingens wrote:There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.
A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe.Glorious Homeland wrote:Oh, I don't know; we can apparently manage large welfare systems that empower the poor, reduce income inequality, raise opportunity, and yet also grow faster post-recession AND have a bigger GDP than the USA? How is that rose-tinted?
Unless you're measuring American success in terms of negative growth and income inequality? That must be it.Arthropoda Ingens wrote:Are you illiterate or something?Congrats, that's now twice in a row that you're not getting what I was referring to. Some self-delusional sense of importance that makes you feel addressed when you really... Well... Weren't?Glorious Homeland wrote:The point is that recent figures are proving American's economic approach inferior to ours, in general. We can be progressive socially and economically progressive too. Why can't the USA be both? Lazy Americans? That's what the right put the poor down to anyway isn't it? Laziness, I guess Americans must just be much lazier than the average European, if they can't manage decent social provisions and economic expansion?
Though, even acknowledging this, you still failed to read & comprehend the post, anyway.
You're trying to dismiss the original post by saying it only appeases some "minorities". The point is the aforementioned successes, not to distract from them to say "oh well it doesn't really matter, this is just about your sense of entitlement or empowerment". No, it's because I'm sick of hearing reams of shit about how the American system is economically better, and how our welfare states are useless, and all that, while we're actually doing quite damn good right now considering; especially in direct contrast to the USA. But no, America's always better because... well, for some reason we can't measure in GDP or income inequality, or even number of people in prison or things like that. Because apparently those sorts of measurements are irrelevant! My initial point is not insubstantial, you can attempt to dismiss it all you like; but that's not an accurate assessment.
Thrice in a row. Go for gold, man.
"There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.
A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe."
You've constantly, from the start, tried to change the topic and dismiss the initial notion by ignoring it and going off on your own tangent that's unrelated to it. And you call me illiterate?
Oh well, if it serves you well.
by Call to power » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:04 am
Glorious Homeland wrote:It's not trolling, it's a good time to use a good example, to point out that those who believe the USA's system is flawlessly superior are wrong.
Glorious Homeland wrote:Our British debt could be better, we're fixing that now.
Glorious Homeland wrote:Our system could be better in so many ways, but for now it's plodding along alright. The EU could definitely use a few reforms.
Glorious Homeland wrote:But if I come across a bit brutish, just to point out the blazingly obvious that none of them can accept or admit? So be it. They apparently can't handle the idea that their system is wrong or inferior. Defensiveness... hah! That kind of mentality will cripple themselves long term, that helps no one.
by Glorious Homeland » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:13 am
Arthropoda Ingens wrote:You must be working under the assumption that my initial reply was to you.Glorious Homeland wrote:Arthropoda Ingens wrote:'k. You've successfully convinced me that yes, you are in fact illiterate.Glorious Homeland wrote:Arthropoda Ingens wrote:Conserative Morality wrote:What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?Arthropoda Ingens wrote:There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.
A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe.Glorious Homeland wrote:Oh, I don't know; we can apparently manage large welfare systems that empower the poor, reduce income inequality, raise opportunity, and yet also grow faster post-recession AND have a bigger GDP than the USA? How is that rose-tinted?
Unless you're measuring American success in terms of negative growth and income inequality? That must be it.Arthropoda Ingens wrote:Are you illiterate or something?Congrats, that's now twice in a row that you're not getting what I was referring to. Some self-delusional sense of importance that makes you feel addressed when you really... Well... Weren't?Glorious Homeland wrote:The point is that recent figures are proving American's economic approach inferior to ours, in general. We can be progressive socially and economically progressive too. Why can't the USA be both? Lazy Americans? That's what the right put the poor down to anyway isn't it? Laziness, I guess Americans must just be much lazier than the average European, if they can't manage decent social provisions and economic expansion?
Though, even acknowledging this, you still failed to read & comprehend the post, anyway.
You're trying to dismiss the original post by saying it only appeases some "minorities". The point is the aforementioned successes, not to distract from them to say "oh well it doesn't really matter, this is just about your sense of entitlement or empowerment". No, it's because I'm sick of hearing reams of shit about how the American system is economically better, and how our welfare states are useless, and all that, while we're actually doing quite damn good right now considering; especially in direct contrast to the USA. But no, America's always better because... well, for some reason we can't measure in GDP or income inequality, or even number of people in prison or things like that. Because apparently those sorts of measurements are irrelevant! My initial point is not insubstantial, you can attempt to dismiss it all you like; but that's not an accurate assessment.
Thrice in a row. Go for gold, man.
"There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.
A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe."
You've constantly, from the start, tried to change the topic and dismiss the initial notion by ignoring it and going off on your own tangent that's unrelated to it. And you call me illiterate?
Oh well, if it serves you well.
This assumption is wrong.
Given that II find your allegation that I was the one trying to change the topic amusing at best.
- Replied to Conservative Morality's post & point made
- You then quoted me, yet opted to reply with something that had absolutely, positively nothing whatsoever to do with what I'd told Conservative Morality
- You repeated this three times in a row
You may have a point with this as far as it pertains Conservative Morality (Though actually, not really. If one understands this thread not as a comparison of economic data, but merely as an intercontinental pissing match, which frankly, it was from the start, then CM's point is completely valid), but absolutely, positively, and even if granting this thread some sort of relevance, not with regards to me.
Call to power wrote:Glorious Homeland wrote:It's not trolling, it's a good time to use a good example, to point out that those who believe the USA's system is flawlessly superior are wrong.
but your doing it in a rude and unproductive wayGlorious Homeland wrote:Our British debt could be better, we're fixing that now.
by putting economic growth and social support on the sidelines so the Tories can have a wank over cuts
yes our debt is a problem but not as big as its made out to be by those that want to exploit it for their own personal ideas /my Neu Arbeit rantGlorious Homeland wrote:Our system could be better in so many ways, but for now it's plodding along alright. The EU could definitely use a few reforms.
aye its plodding along but that doesn't mean we should ignore falling victim to our own hubris by short term export growth in the German market
especially as we need our largest trading partner bouncing backGlorious Homeland wrote:But if I come across a bit brutish, just to point out the blazingly obvious that none of them can accept or admit? So be it. They apparently can't handle the idea that their system is wrong or inferior. Defensiveness... hah! That kind of mentality will cripple themselves long term, that helps no one.
a better idea would be bringing forward why Germany has worked I remember the Economist did this awhile ago by pointing out the problems in the Anglo-Saxon model that have allowed Germany to become the dominant Europower
I believe one example was Obama asking why America couldn't have a high speed rail network
by Herskerstad » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:15 am
The Bleeding Roses wrote:They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...
by Cosmopoles » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:17 am
Glorious Homeland wrote:The Economist
http://economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/08/europes_economies?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/turbocharged
What's that America? A group of countries with large spending on universal healthcare and welfare policies are growing much faster economically post-recession than you? *dances*
America’s and Europe’s economic fortunes are as tightly bound as ever. For all the talk of competition, politicians in Brussels and Frankfurt should be praying for growth in America—just as their peers in Washington, DC, should be pleased to hear about China’s nouveaux riches ordering German cars and French claret.
First, Germany apart, the euro area remains weak. Spain, whose economy is barely growing and where the jobless rate is 20%, would love to have America’s problems. Second, Germany relies on exports, not spending at home: the home market is one of the few places where sales of Mercedes cars have fallen this year. So its economic fortunes remain closely tied to the rest of the world—including one of its biggest markets, America.
But a slide into a second recession would require firms to cut back again on stocks, capital spending and jobs. The cash buffer corporate America has built up in case of harder times makes a fresh shock of that kind unlikely.
by New Huxlian Orwell » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:26 am
The Bleeding Roses wrote:They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...
by Arthropoda Ingens » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:33 am
Because having quoted Conservative Morality, it seemed kind of obvious?Glorious Homeland wrote:Arthropoda Ingens wrote:You must be working under the assumption that my initial reply was to you.Glorious Homeland wrote:Arthropoda Ingens wrote:'k. You've successfully convinced me that yes, you are in fact illiterate.Glorious Homeland wrote:Arthropoda Ingens wrote:Conserative Morality wrote:What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?Arthropoda Ingens wrote:There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.
A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe.Glorious Homeland wrote:Oh, I don't know; we can apparently manage large welfare systems that empower the poor, reduce income inequality, raise opportunity, and yet also grow faster post-recession AND have a bigger GDP than the USA? How is that rose-tinted?
Unless you're measuring American success in terms of negative growth and income inequality? That must be it.Arthropoda Ingens wrote:Are you illiterate or something?Congrats, that's now twice in a row that you're not getting what I was referring to. Some self-delusional sense of importance that makes you feel addressed when you really... Well... Weren't?Glorious Homeland wrote:The point is that recent figures are proving American's economic approach inferior to ours, in general. We can be progressive socially and economically progressive too. Why can't the USA be both? Lazy Americans? That's what the right put the poor down to anyway isn't it? Laziness, I guess Americans must just be much lazier than the average European, if they can't manage decent social provisions and economic expansion?
Though, even acknowledging this, you still failed to read & comprehend the post, anyway.
You're trying to dismiss the original post by saying it only appeases some "minorities". The point is the aforementioned successes, not to distract from them to say "oh well it doesn't really matter, this is just about your sense of entitlement or empowerment". No, it's because I'm sick of hearing reams of shit about how the American system is economically better, and how our welfare states are useless, and all that, while we're actually doing quite damn good right now considering; especially in direct contrast to the USA. But no, America's always better because... well, for some reason we can't measure in GDP or income inequality, or even number of people in prison or things like that. Because apparently those sorts of measurements are irrelevant! My initial point is not insubstantial, you can attempt to dismiss it all you like; but that's not an accurate assessment.
Thrice in a row. Go for gold, man.
"There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.
A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe."
You've constantly, from the start, tried to change the topic and dismiss the initial notion by ignoring it and going off on your own tangent that's unrelated to it. And you call me illiterate?
Oh well, if it serves you well.
This assumption is wrong.
Given that II find your allegation that I was the one trying to change the topic amusing at best.
- Replied to Conservative Morality's post & point made
- You then quoted me, yet opted to reply with something that had absolutely, positively nothing whatsoever to do with what I'd told Conservative Morality
- You repeated this three times in a row
You may have a point with this as far as it pertains Conservative Morality (Though actually, not really. If one understands this thread not as a comparison of economic data, but merely as an intercontinental pissing match, which frankly, it was from the start, then CM's point is completely valid), but absolutely, positively, and even if granting this thread some sort of relevance, not with regards to me.
Then why didn't you point that out to begin with "I was responding to conservative morality", rather than bluntly accusing "you're illiterate." multiple times?
by Glorious Homeland » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:52 am
Cosmopoles wrote:Glorious Homeland wrote:The Economist
http://economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/08/europes_economies?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/turbocharged
What's that America? A group of countries with large spending on universal healthcare and welfare policies are growing much faster economically post-recession than you? *dances*
Its pretty hilarious how you quote this article and completely overlook the points made in the related editorial.America’s and Europe’s economic fortunes are as tightly bound as ever. For all the talk of competition, politicians in Brussels and Frankfurt should be praying for growth in America—just as their peers in Washington, DC, should be pleased to hear about China’s nouveaux riches ordering German cars and French claret.First, Germany apart, the euro area remains weak. Spain, whose economy is barely growing and where the jobless rate is 20%, would love to have America’s problems. Second, Germany relies on exports, not spending at home: the home market is one of the few places where sales of Mercedes cars have fallen this year. So its economic fortunes remain closely tied to the rest of the world—including one of its biggest markets, America.But a slide into a second recession would require firms to cut back again on stocks, capital spending and jobs. The cash buffer corporate America has built up in case of harder times makes a fresh shock of that kind unlikely.
by The Bleeding Roses » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:29 pm
by New Huxlian Orwell » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:41 pm
The Bleeding Roses wrote:
A worthless index that is biased towards equality.
Here in America we have a thing called capitalism which rewards success and punishes stupidity.
by The Bleeding Roses » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:42 pm
New Huxlian Orwell wrote:The Bleeding Roses wrote:
A worthless index that is biased towards equality.
Here in America we have a thing called capitalism which rewards success and punishes stupidity.
Yeah, those pesky facts, always throwin' a monkey wrench in your ideology. All capitalism does is reward greed. Equality is a good thing.
by New Genoa » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:43 pm
The Bleeding Roses wrote:
A worthless index that is biased towards equality.
Here in America we have a thing called capitalism which rewards success and punishes stupidity.
by Vetalia » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:44 pm
by The Bleeding Roses » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:46 pm
by Karsol » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:46 pm
by Vetalia » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:47 pm
Karsol wrote:GO EU!!!
But, with places like China and Turkey flourishing, State Capitalism is the new Laissez-faire.
by New Genoa » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:48 pm
Vetalia wrote:Bear in mind these are also countries embarking on aggressive plans to shore up their finances and rein in their deficit spending, unlike the US which is still clinging to the fantasy of stimulus despite the severe negative consequences it will pose in the near future unless we get our own house in order. Of course, the EU is also apparently blessed with actual leaders instead of wishy-washy, ineffective politicians like Obama.
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