Should Rural votes count more than Urban Votes?

[United Empire of Humanity]

No, republicans would then have no competition in the US.

In fairness, soon, there might be no competition for democrats.

We'll fragment.
That's how the Whigs were born.

[San Lumen]

I don't think it really matters either way, but if it helps keep the countryside from doing something shitty in response, perhaps the counties should have guaranteed powers and Illinois ought to become a federation.
I wonder how a 102-unit federation would work hahaha.,.

As long as my fucking roads get paid for. I don't think its asking for too much to be able to keep the education money and the road money from disappearing.

Edit: Your federation idea might work but the problem is that it could work. That won't do for our state government.

I agree with you but you seem to advocating for your rural county and others to have more representatives and voting power than Cook County. I can't see how that's fair.

[The Alexanderians]

In fairness, soon, there might be no competition for democrats.

We'll fragment.
That's how the Whigs were born.

That's how any party not called "federalist" or "anti-federalist" is born

[The East Marches]

As long as my fucking roads get paid for. I don't think its asking for too much to be able to keep the education money and the road money from disappearing.

Edit: Your federation idea might work but the problem is that it could work. That won't do for our state government.

I agree with you but you seem to advocating for your rural county and others to have more representatives and voting power than Cook County. I can't see how that's fair.

I'm not arguing that at all. I'm arguing that we should be able to control our local finances until the corruption of the state is solved. If they can't be trusted not to have the money (they have no incentive to not stab us in the back), then why should they have it back? Its nothing to do with 1 man, 1 vote. Everything to do with good governance. We pay our fair share to the state government. Its not like Cook county doesn't get its slice.

[The East Marches]

As long as my fucking roads get paid for. I don't think its asking for too much to be able to keep the education money and the road money from disappearing.

Fair enough.
e: And I do imagine unitary states always dislike giving up power, which is why their autonomous regions tend to be full of gore and death, ethnic minorities, tiny populations or be otherwise irrelevant somehow to the rest of the national infrastructure and demography.

I agree, they don't tend to like that sort of thing. However, I can think of worse fates than being left alone. At least then I might not get fucked on my property taxes. God help me if they have the ability to set the modifier (not the rate but the multiplier). I will be out of a home.

[San Lumen]

Um, no.
I think whatever problems are percieved in the urban/rural divide can be better explained and addressed through the mechanics of districting.

What do you mean?

[Vespalian Federation]

As long as my fucking roads get paid for. I don't think its asking for too much to be able to keep the education money and the road money from disappearing.

Edit: Your federation idea might work but the problem is that it could work. That won't do for our state government.

I agree with you but you seem to advocating for your rural county and others to have more representatives and voting power than Cook County. I can't see how that's fair.

Not necessarily.
In a federation, subnational (or "lower") units have rights the higher ones can't strip from them, not without the approval of the county itself at least.
In the case of Illinois, it would be control over county-imposed tax revenues and some other things that would be inalienable from a county, along with the right to exist unmodified in form.

Fair enough.
e: And I do imagine unitary states always dislike giving up power, which is why their autonomous regions tend to be full of gore and death, ethnic minorities, tiny populations or be otherwise irrelevant somehow to the rest of the national infrastructure and demography.

I agree, they don't tend to like that sort of thing. However, I can think of worse fates than being left alone. At least then I might not get fucked on my property taxes. God help me if they have the ability to set the modifier (not the rate but the multiplier). I will be out of a home.

Multiplier?
You mean they can get more of your money than the stated rate allows? Holy fuck. I fear the day I have to write a 1044 or whatever it is.

[Vespalian Federation]

We'll fragment.
That's how the Whigs were born.

That's how any party not called "federalist" or "anti-federalist" is born

Basically.
I'm proud to be part of the oldest extant political party in America for that reason. We've been here since the beginning!

[The Serbian Empire]

And then there's Michigan's State Legislature which is Republican due to how the districts are drawn to be as rural as possible and to keep some cities within one district.

[Mike the Progressive]

Just let eastern WA go it's own way ;_;

Haha, no. Those are our damn apples. They may not be that great. But they are ours.

[The East Marches]

I agree, they don't tend to like that sort of thing. However, I can think of worse fates than being left alone. At least then I might not get fucked on my property taxes. God help me if they have the ability to set the modifier (not the rate but the multiplier). I will be out of a home.

Multiplier?
You mean they can get more of your money than the stated rate allows? Holy fuck. I fear the day I have to write a 1044 or whatever it is.

They did it in a very convoluted way this year. I had to hire a lawyer and a tax expert. Its Illinois. Do not expect reason or logic. Its not a problem because I will win. I won the last time too. And the time before that.

They are trying to target those who don't have the same pockets I do to fight this shit. Its a very dirty way for them to get more money without officially raising taxes.

[Mike the Progressive]

That's how any party not called "federalist" or "anti-federalist" is born

Basically.
I'm proud to be part of the oldest extant political party in America for that reason. We've been here since the beginning!

What? The Democrats?

[San Lumen]

And then there's Michigan's State Legislature which is Republican due to how the districts are drawn to be as rural as possible and to keep some cities within one district.

Yes its basically gerrymandering to an extreme and to dilute the votes of urban areas and make rural votes count more. I fail to see how it hasn't been challenged as a violation of the Voting Rights Act. In 2012 and 2014 the Democrats won the popular vote for the state legislature but failed to get a majority which is undemocratic. If there was a fair map they would have the majority in the legislature. Same goes for Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and North Carolina

[Washington Resistance Army]

Just let eastern WA go it's own way ;_;

Haha, no. Those are our damn apples. They may not be that great. But they are ours.

Hey now, they're amazing.

[Conserative Morality]

Do you think its right that my tax money (a portion of which already goes to the whole state) should no longer be under local control?

Yes.

[The East Marches]

Do you think its right that my tax money (a portion of which already goes to the whole state) should no longer be under local control?

Yes.

Can you donate to IL government on my behalf then?

[Conserative Morality]

Can you donate to IL government on my behalf then?

Nah, broke af. Plus, I tend to donate to NASA and the Feds.

[Cankristia]

Rural votes shouldn't count more than Urban votes, but rural people should be allowed more self-determination with how to deal with their local problems.

[The East Marches]

Can you donate to IL government on my behalf then?

Nah, broke af. Plus, I tend to donate to NASA and the Feds.

I cri evrytiem.

Though I still owe you one for turning me on to that NASA thing. I throw them some money from time to time when the stealership isn't robbing me blind.

[Vespalian Federation]

And then there's Michigan's State Legislature which is Republican due to how the districts are drawn to be as rural as possible and to keep some cities within one district.

I thank the gods that such travesties aren't possible nationally. They can weaken the three C's and loads other cities, but they can't be taken out!
As for MI, sorry to hear that the state legislature's been gerried that badly. I looked briefly and it seems like they got somewhere between 60 and 70% of the seats to fall to the Reds. Looks like some california dreaming is needed.
(California's redistricting process is controlled by a nonpartisan commission, bless their hearts. Seriously. It's good for this FPTP shithole of a country.)

Basically.
I'm proud to be part of the oldest extant political party in America for that reason. We've been here since the beginning!

What? The Democrats?

Democrats it is.

Multiplier?
You mean they can get more of your money than the stated rate allows? Holy fuck. I fear the day I have to write a 1044 or whatever it is.

They did it in a very convoluted way this year. I had to hire a lawyer and a tax expert. Its Illinois. Do not expect reason or logic. Its not a problem because I will win. I won the last time too. And the time before that.

They are trying to target those who don't have the same pockets I do to fight this shit. Its a very dirty way for them to get more money without officially raising taxes.

That's just awful, craven shit. Convoluting the tax rates to exploit people. Wish there was a way to eliminate that sort of thing.

[Mike the Progressive]

Haha, no. Those are our damn apples. They may not be that great. But they are ours.

Hey now, they're amazing.

Meh, they're alright.

[The East Marches]

They did it in a very convoluted way this year. I had to hire a lawyer and a tax expert. Its Illinois. Do not expect reason or logic. Its not a problem because I will win. I won the last time too. And the time before that.

They are trying to target those who don't have the same pockets I do to fight this shit. Its a very dirty way for them to get more money without officially raising taxes.

That's just awful, craven shit. Convoluting the tax rates to exploit people. Wish there was a way to eliminate that sort of thing.

You and me both.

[San Lumen]

Rural votes shouldn't count more than Urban votes, but rural people should be allowed more self-determination with how to deal with their local problems.

How exactly? What are you proposing?

[Vespalian Federation]

Rural votes shouldn't count more than Urban votes, but rural people should be allowed more self-determination with how to deal with their local problems.

Federalism it is, then?
I think more federalism is needed. Brazil at least thought that far though given their other problems I doubt it works too well either way. But this is America, for fuck's sake! Can't we do better?
I propose that as many states as possible should be organized into federal subunits, preferably the counties as opposed to new "subregions" to minimize consternation, and they should have their own assured rights over their affairs to some degree.

[Conserative Morality]

Rural votes shouldn't count more than Urban votes, but rural people should be allowed more self-determination with how to deal with their local problems.

Nah. I remember how that worked out last time.

I cri evrytiem.

Though I still owe you one for turning me on to that NASA thing. I throw them some money from time to time when the stealership isn't robbing me blind.

Let's just abolish IL. Counties only.