Sedgistan wrote:So no-one is using Halcones'/Frak's scripts any more, or communicating with either of them?
Hah, that's funny. Half of this side of gameplay never stopped using Predator or giving Halc direct feedback on upkeep for it.
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by Ever-Wandering Souls » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:46 am
Sedgistan wrote:So no-one is using Halcones'/Frak's scripts any more, or communicating with either of them?
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Sedgistan » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:10 am
by McMannia Squared » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:27 am
by Pierconium » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:56 am
Sedgistan wrote:In that case:
1. I hope those using Predator are wholly confident that it does not violate the Script Rules. It is the responsibility of the player using a tool to verify that it fits within the rules. Assuming that it is legal because it has been used for a while is no assurance that it actually is. If you use an illegal script, you will be punished for it.
2. Those facilitating a DOS player's access to and influence over the site by working with Halcones to develop his tools are acting in contravention of the rules. This is their opportunity to come clean about it, and cease working with him: GHR us. Failure to do so runs the risk that you yourself are DOSed. Previous players who have come clean about working with DOS players are still using the site (Nephmir, Scientiam); those that haven't have been DOSed themselves (Halcones, Bob Moran).
I hope that is sufficiently clear.
by ADST World » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:16 am
Siberian Districts wrote:ADST World wrote:
You do realize that these actions are similar to those of an internet troll, and that beyond that, it is disrespectful, and sometimes just downright cruel, to afflict others with minor troubles, just because it's funny, right?
Trolling is against the rules. Raiding isn't. I think that's difference enough. Any argument on this probably shouldn't be on this thread
by The Silver Sentinel » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:27 am
Pierconium wrote:Sedgistan wrote:In that case:
1. I hope those using Predator are wholly confident that it does not violate the Script Rules. It is the responsibility of the player using a tool to verify that it fits within the rules. Assuming that it is legal because it has been used for a while is no assurance that it actually is. If you use an illegal script, you will be punished for it.
2. Those facilitating a DOS player's access to and influence over the site by working with Halcones to develop his tools are acting in contravention of the rules. This is their opportunity to come clean about it, and cease working with him: GHR us. Failure to do so runs the risk that you yourself are DOSed. Previous players who have come clean about working with DOS players are still using the site (Nephmir, Scientiam); those that haven't have been DOSed themselves (Halcones, Bob Moran).
I hope that is sufficiently clear.
Hi Sedge,
I have a quick question, and apologies for the thread jack, but I'm just going off your comment here. Just so I am clear, because it has come up in the past, can you define 'working' with a DOS player? I know several regions allow DOS players to maintain accounts and activity on their offsites for RP purposes, etc. Is this inclusive of that or only in regards to script usage?
Thanks,
me
by Pierconium » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:38 am
The Silver Sentinel wrote:Pierconium wrote:Hi Sedge,
I have a quick question, and apologies for the thread jack, but I'm just going off your comment here. Just so I am clear, because it has come up in the past, can you define 'working' with a DOS player? I know several regions allow DOS players to maintain accounts and activity on their offsites for RP purposes, etc. Is this inclusive of that or only in regards to script usage?
Thanks,
me
It has been stated many times that the mods do not police offsite activities.
by Zemnaya Svoboda » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:47 am
Pierconium wrote:Yes, I know.
However, in the comment that I quoted and directed to the moderator offsite activities are discussed and warned against, ergo...
Working with a DOS player can mean any number of things. Yes, Sedge mentions facilitating access but that isn't the only aspect he mentions.
by Pierconium » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:52 am
Zemnaya Svoboda wrote:Pierconium wrote:Yes, I know.
However, in the comment that I quoted and directed to the moderator offsite activities are discussed and warned against, ergo...
Working with a DOS player can mean any number of things. Yes, Sedge mentions facilitating access but that isn't the only aspect he mentions.
I was assured that so long as St George remained on our offsite and was not asking people to do things on nationstates.net for him, etc, we were fine.
I'm under the impression that the conduct moderation prohibits is conduct that involves a DoS player continuing to interact with the site itself, rather than communities associated with it. For example, helping a DoS player develop code that interfaces with NS by running it for them would not be permissible. Nor would posting telegrams or on regional message boards or the onsite forums for such a player be allowed.
by Sedgistan » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:54 am
Zemnaya Svoboda wrote:I was assured that so long as St George remained on our offsite and was not asking people to do things on nationstates.net for him, etc, we were fine.
I'm under the impression that the conduct moderation prohibits is conduct that involves a DoS player continuing to interact with the site itself, rather than communities associated with it. For example, helping a DoS player develop code that interfaces with NS by running it for them would not be permissible. Nor would posting telegrams or on regional message boards or the onsite forums for such a player be allowed.
by Pierconium » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:55 am
Sedgistan wrote:Zemnaya Svoboda wrote:I was assured that so long as St George remained on our offsite and was not asking people to do things on nationstates.net for him, etc, we were fine.
I'm under the impression that the conduct moderation prohibits is conduct that involves a DoS player continuing to interact with the site itself, rather than communities associated with it. For example, helping a DoS player develop code that interfaces with NS by running it for them would not be permissible. Nor would posting telegrams or on regional message boards or the onsite forums for such a player be allowed.
That's correct.
by Sedgistan » Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:22 pm
Pierconium wrote:Otherwise, we are all just assuming. If a DOS player was the primary 'commander' or what have you of a raider group and was directing which regions would be invaded at specific updates would that level of onsite influence be considered above the threshold? Just curious. Would the players that took part in those raids be subject to disciplinary action even if they are unaware of a scripts usage?
by New Los Angelos » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:34 pm
ADST World wrote:Siberian Districts wrote:
Trolling is against the rules. Raiding isn't. I think that's difference enough. Any argument on this probably shouldn't be on this thread
My point is, a actualized war system with opt in allows for fewer raiders, and I feel as though those raiders get their laughs by raiding us day in and day out.
If a system isn't implemented, any faith I had in this community will crumble, I will leave, and possibly start a website with a similar idea, but a actualized war system. Because honestly, this system, with the arguments, the raids, and the chaos of it all, is just starting to feel like Max Barry enjoys watching us be crushed by raiders.
In other words:
I AM FED UP WITH RAIDERS MAKE A WAR SYSTEM MAX BARRY!
by King Nephmir II » Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:35 pm
by YoriZ » Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:27 pm
by RiderSyl » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:15 pm
by Raionitu » Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:16 pm
Sedgistan wrote:In that case:
1. I hope those using Predator are wholly confident that it does not violate the Script Rules. It is the responsibility of the player using a tool to verify that it fits within the rules. Assuming that it is legal because it has been used for a while is no assurance that it actually is. If you use an illegal script, you will be punished for it.
2. Those facilitating a DOS player's access to and influence over the site by working with Halcones to develop his tools are acting in contravention of the rules. This is their opportunity to come clean about it, and cease working with him: GHR us. Failure to do so runs the risk that you yourself are DOSed. Previous players who have come clean about working with DOS players are still using the site (Nephmir, Scientiam); those that haven't have been DOSed themselves (Halcones, Bob Moran).
I hope that is sufficiently clear.
Koth wrote:you guys are cool, like lately ive been watching the overal state of the raider world and been like,"ew", but you guys are very not ew
Reppy wrote:Swearing is just fucking fine on this goddamn fucking forum.
Aguaria Major wrote:The Black Hawks is essentially a regional equivalent of Heath Ledger's Joker: they just want to watch the world burn
Frisbeeteria wrote:Please stop.Please.
Souls wrote:Hi, I'm Souls. Have you embraced our lord and savior , Piling yet?
Souls wrote:Note to self: Watch out for Rai in my bedroom
Altinsane wrote:Me, about every suspiciously helpful newb I meet: "It's probably Rai."
Lord Dominator wrote:Koth is a drunken alternate personality of yours
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:22 pm
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by RiderSyl » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:14 pm
Raionitu wrote:If I was to use Predator, without working with a DOS player or giving them feedback or input, would I be punished, yes or no?
by Reploid Productions » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:35 pm
[violet] wrote:Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.
by The Silver Sentinel » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:47 pm
Reploid Productions wrote:I'm just going to chime in a quick US$0.02 here about the DOS guys and scripts:
Is it really a good idea to trust the scripts produced and maintained by somebody who was kicked off the site for breaking the script rules (among others) in the first place? That strikes me as being about as wise as letting a known animal abuser take care of your pets, or a convicted kidnapper babysit your kids. Somebody who's DOS has nothing left to lose in regards to NS and no reason whatsoever to abide by our rules, and I've seen such instances turn all too often into those ex-users trying to dick over as many people as possible in petty revenge.
King Nephmir II wrote:Can we just get a "just got invaded" megathread already and be done with it?
by YoriZ » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:39 am
Ridersyl wrote:Some raiders are breaking the rules, therefore something is wrong about raiding?
That could be applied to anything. Example: "Some anarchists break the law, therefore something is wrong with anarchy."
It's a flawed argument.
And honestly, it's unnecessary to try molding a discussion around your disapproval of raiding. All it does is dilute the discussion at hand.
by Severisen » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:10 am
YoriZ wrote: The discussion is about the disproval of raiding. The fact raiding requires script usage and that scripts used are controlled by dos-players only contributes to the legitimate of the claim that raiding is to be disapproved.
by Eluvatar » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:05 am
Severisen wrote:Ultimately there is a gray area where Halcones' app/script/tool is concerned. It's been stated before that using a legal script that a user made while playing the game was ok, even after he/she became DOS, primarily, iirc, because the script was made by a valid site-user at the time. But here's the gray area, in my mind. It's like the Ship of Theseus. If the program was ok at some point, but since the DOS order, has had some (or even all) of its components updated by said user, is it still the initial, and legal, script? Or is it a new script, created by a DOS player, and therefore illegal and to be shunned? As others have said, it's better to play on the safe side altogether, but I think it's going to require administration to create a policy of what is, and what is not, acceptable with regards to situations like these.
(Edit for reference: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p24388011 )
Reploid Productions wrote:Evil Wolf wrote:
You mean like NS+, which was made by a now DOS player?
No, I wouldn't think so. At the very least, it would go against what ADMIN has ruled in the past.
Pretty much. There's a big difference between stuff developed and in circulation before a DOS and stuff created afterward. Plus, there's also an enormous difference between essentially passive tools like spreadsheets and update forecasting tools and active scripts that do things in-game. The recruiting script in this case, besides being made post-DOS by a DOS user, is also entirely and blatantly in violation of the scripting rules.
Of course, from a basic cybersecurity standpoint, always be cautious about who you accept 3rd party software from. NS++ demonstrated in a relatively benign manner that exact risk over a year ago.
Sedgistan wrote:In that case:
1. I hope those using Predator are wholly confident that it does not violate the Script Rules. It is the responsibility of the player using a tool to verify that it fits within the rules. Assuming that it is legal because it has been used for a while is no assurance that it actually is. If you use an illegal script, you will be punished for it.
2. Those facilitating a DOS player's access to and influence over the site by working with Halcones to develop his tools are acting in contravention of the rules. This is their opportunity to come clean about it, and cease working with him: GHR us. Failure to do so runs the risk that you yourself are DOSed. Previous players who have come clean about working with DOS players are still using the site (Nephmir, Scientiam); those that haven't have been DOSed themselves (Halcones, Bob Moran).
I hope that is sufficiently clear.
Sedgistan wrote:Zemnaya Svoboda wrote:I was assured that so long as St George remained on our offsite and was not asking people to do things on nationstates.net for him, etc, we were fine.
I'm under the impression that the conduct moderation prohibits is conduct that involves a DoS player continuing to interact with the site itself, rather than communities associated with it. For example, helping a DoS player develop code that interfaces with NS by running it for them would not be permissible. Nor would posting telegrams or on regional message boards or the onsite forums for such a player be allowed.
That's correct.
Sedgistan wrote:Pierconium wrote:Otherwise, we are all just assuming. If a DOS player was the primary 'commander' or what have you of a raider group and was directing which regions would be invaded at specific updates would that level of onsite influence be considered above the threshold? Just curious. Would the players that took part in those raids be subject to disciplinary action even if they are unaware of a scripts usage?
A good summary would be that if you're doing something on nationstates.net at the behest of a DOS player, you are subject to moderator action.
by Severisen » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:42 am
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