Controversy over Islamic song in Holiday concert

[Empire of Donner land]

Religion in this day and age brings nothing of value to society as a whole, so it may not be explicitly bad but it is most definitely completely and utterly useless.

There are plenty of things that fall into that category. Secular and religious in nature alike. A lot... xD

Plus it has some practical uses even in a secular perspective. In general, it is good for many in coping with life in general, dealing with things like tragedy and death/mortality, giving moral direction and bahavioural guidelines, and giving life meaning and purpose, which contribute to general mental well-being. In the words of a Hindu speaker I was watching a while ago "Science answers the question 'How?' Religion answers the question 'Why?'" So I'd disagree calling it useless, if I'm to be honest.

I could go into more religious, moral, or value-based importance of religion, but I doubt that would lead to anything more than circular argument. Good to see that you were willing to acknowledge that religion isn't all bad though.

I'm pretty sure science answers both why and how

[Summerset Plains]

\but perhaps it would have been a good idea to edit out the ALLAHU AKBAR line (Ackbar is God?)]

Funny,since Akbar is a name...

[Traxa]

Religion in this day and age brings nothing of value to society as a whole, so it may not be explicitly bad but it is most definitely completely and utterly useless.

There are plenty of things that fall into that category. Secular and religious in nature alike. A lot... xD

Plus it has some practical uses even in a secular perspective. In general, it is good for many in coping with life in general, and giving life meaning and purpose, which contribute to general mental well-being. In the words of a Hindu speaker I was watching a while ago "Science answers the question 'How?' Religion answers the question 'Why?'"

I could go into more religious, moral, or value-based importance of religion, but I doubt that would lead to anything more than circular argument. Good to see that you were willing to acknowledge that religion isn't all bad though.

you dont need religion for morals or values at all. Infact if you people actually followed the major religious texts we would be worse off morally/values wise as society XD. Religion doesn't answer anything, it just promotes being ignorant.

"Why does the sun come up"

the religious answer is "because god said so/made it so" however you want to phrase it. That is not an answer to anything in any shape or form and certainly not "why", all that answer does is teach you to be satisfied without actually knowing anything, religion is cop-out.

[Noraika]

There are plenty of things that fall into that category. Secular and religious in nature alike. A lot... xD

Plus it has some practical uses even in a secular perspective. In general, it is good for many in coping with life in general, dealing with things like tragedy and death/mortality, giving moral direction and bahavioural guidelines, and giving life meaning and purpose, which contribute to general mental well-being. In the words of a Hindu speaker I was watching a while ago "Science answers the question 'How?' Religion answers the question 'Why?'" So I'd disagree calling it useless, if I'm to be honest.

I could go into more religious, moral, or value-based importance of religion, but I doubt that would lead to anything more than circular argument. Good to see that you were willing to acknowledge that religion isn't all bad though.

I'm pretty sure science answers both why and how

From my experience there are certain areas which science cannot answer because they deal with non-observable or physical elements of human existence. Unfortunately fact and theory cannot define many things we make active use of in our daily lives. Issues like morality, meaning, afterlife, existence of the spiritual, how to behave in relation to other, et cetera.

Those things are the areas of philosophy and theology typically, and are not things which can be defined via traditional an current scientific methods of observation. That being said, I would agree with the Dalai Lama, in saying that "If science disproves a part of Buddhism, then Buddhism will have to change." (paraphrased)

Both religion and science can easily operate together without conflict, and a person does not have to reject religion to accept science. They simply observe the same universe and existence while dealing with different areas and aspects of that same universe that the other cannot deal with in its method of observation.

For me, religion, and the understanding of the spiritual with it, is more a complement to the understanding of the physical that science already brings.

[Pulau Singapura]

Well it was one among many religiously tinged songs so it is good to see it isn't merely a knee jerk reactionary atheist backlash. To be clear I have no serious qualms with traditional American style moderate Islam, but perhaps it would have been a good idea to edit out the ALLAHU AKBAR line (Ackbar is God?) given that jihadists and specifically anti western terrorists jihadists specifically shout that phrase, it's kinda cliche really. That said, I also stand for free speech so I don't know I'm kinda conflicted here.

1. It's part of the song, not even a swear word, so why edit it out?
2. "Allahu Akbar" just means "God is great" in Arabic. Allah - God; -u - some sort of particle; Akbar - Great
3. Even moderate style Islam uses that phrase A LOT

[The Norgan Alliance]

Well it was one among many religiously tinged songs so it is good to see it isn't merely a knee jerk reactionary atheist backlash. To be clear I have no serious qualms with traditional American style moderate Islam, but perhaps it would have been a good idea to edit out the ALLAHU AKBAR line (Ackbar is God?) given that jihadists and specifically anti western terrorists jihadists specifically shout that phrase, it's kinda cliche really. That said, I also stand for free speech so I don't know I'm kinda conflicted here.

1. It's part of the song, not even a swear word, so why edit it out?
2. "Allahu Akbar" just means "God is great" in Arabic. Allah - God; -u - some sort of particle; Akbar - Great
3. Even moderate style Islam uses that phrase A LOT

In the west "Allahu Akbar', though originating as a harmless phrase, has become twisted through its use in the Middle East by Islamic Terrorists. It'd be like if we had kids up on stage singing "Deus Vult".

[Giovenith]

Obviously this is stupid and insanely hypocritical.


But to all those saying "Ban all religious songs from schools!" - not going to happen. The vast, vast, vast majority of choir and chorus music is extremely rooted in religious background due to, throughout history, it primarily being funded by and written for the Church. While there is plenty of great secular music out there, trying to fill entire concerts with all secular music throughout the whole year for years to come is nowhere near as easy as you imagine it. There has been precedent for this before, and it has usually failed miserably; while I am usually for public spaces being as secular as possible, demanding that choir music be 100% secular is an extremely unreasonable demand, and will quickly be pointed out as such for anyone with any background in basic choral music and history. Not only are you making it difficult to put together much of anything, but you are strangling a large degree of the actual worth and history that comes with the singing. The most cherished and enriching pieces out there are, in fact, religious based, that's just the fact of the matter. Saying, "ban the religious music! only secular music!" demonstrates a profound ignorance about the history and state of the music that is being practiced and studied. It's a bit like saying, "Time to study the literature of the Renaissance! Oh, but let's not mention anything that had anything to do with royalty - we're a democratic nation after all, we don't acknowledge the evils of royalism here." Say good-bye to Shakespeare and most of his buddies. Not a very fulfilling or accurate class, is it?

When we sang religious-based songs in my own choir, it was never presented as meant to convert or convince us of the faith that inspired it, but rather to experience the bare music for what it was. There is much, much more to music than just the lyrics; lyrics are arguably the least important aspect of the song in comparison to the actual sound and emotional effect the music itself is supposed to evoke. And no, the songs were not always Christian in nature - we had traditional African, Jewish, Muslim, and pre-Christian Indo-European. There were plenty of atheists, agnostics, pagan-derived affiliates, in the choir, as well as a member of the Baha'i faith (who was once invited to go up in class and explain her religion to the class as a means of sharing culture). Being secular does not necessarily mean wiping away any evidence of the existence of religion in every shape and form; it means not enforcing any one religion as a given. If we sang about Jesus or Joshua or any other Biblical figure, it didn't "make us" believe in them anymore than singing "Stacy's Mom" made us believe that Stacy or her mother existed or were of relevance to our lives. Being made to acknowledge the existence of the concept of Jesus didn't break my poor little atheistic heart, or anyone else's, no more than being made to sing any other faith-based songs killed the little Evangelical preacher's daughter in our class either.


On all of that, of course getting rid of the Islamic music was stupid. Singing it doesn't turn you into a Muslim. Neither does singing any other faith's music. Most people are not as easily brainwashed or traumatized by magic buzzwords like "Allah" or "Jesus" as we seem to assume.

[Zaldakki]

They should have sung a Mawlid song because Mawlid coincides with the Christmas season this year and the meanings are so similar ^^

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

-rolls eyes-

The whole point of the concert was to outline different faiths, including Islam. What's the big deal?

[The Norgan Alliance]

-rolls eyes-

The whole point of the concert was to outline different faiths, including Islam. What's the big deal?

The whole point of this concert was to sing songs about the holiday season, Islam has no holiday that consistently falls during December so by including an Islamic song the choir seems both ignorant and preachy at the same time. Not to mention the fact that their song of choice included the phrase "Allahu Akbar", which is associated with terrorism here in the west.

[The Debauched Rabbit]

Islam appears to be today's scapegoat, for whatever reason. No one should be forced to sing anything religious, but...for fuck's sake, it's just a song.

[Gauthier]

-rolls eyes-

The whole point of the concert was to outline different faiths, including Islam. What's the big deal?

The whole point of this concert was to sing songs about the holiday season, Islam has no holiday that consistently falls during December so by including an Islamic song the choir seems both ignorant and preachy at the same time. Not to mention the fact that their song of choice included the phrase "Allahu Akbar", which is associated with terrorism here in the west.

[-Bosakia-]

I'm all for being tolerant of other religions but if we get to the point where we become a second Sweden, it's got to stop.

[Gauthier]

I'm all for being tolerant of other religions but if we get to the point where we become a second Sweden, it's got to stop.

Because singing "Allahu Akbar" is not only a powerful explosive on the grade of "Fus Ro Dah," it turns a nation into one gigantic cuckold porn. *nod nod*

[Infected Mushroom]

Jawohl herr komandant!

Ve shall end das eeviil Christmas celebration for das greater good! ja!

Yes, because you decide what is good for society. And no, I didnt compare you to a nazi. I just used the sort of voice that one would stereotypically use, but it was not the intention, it was to immitate general overzealousness. It's all in good fun. Society has no interest in promoting atheism, but from a religious perspective, religion only helps society.

And they should all be replaced with Game of Thrones themed celebrations in December obviously.

I never said

[-The West Coast-]

Nobody should be singing that in schools.

[Vassenor]

Nobody should be singing that in schools.

Why?

[Wallenburg]

Nobody should be singing that in schools.

Why?

*whispers* duh ebul mozlums

[Rock Lobsters]

I feel like this entire "Controversy" could be summed up by saying: "EW!!! Muslims bad!". Even in the article it showcases a comment that states: "No child should be forced to sing a song about the Muslims and the religion of hatred.”

However, the only islamic holiday that falls during December is Arba'een, but even that flip-flops between December and November. At first I thought that maybe the school is angry because of their secular principals, then I read on to realize they are allowing Christian and Jewish songs and the end of the concert will be topped off with a hallelujah chorus. If you're going to ban one religious song, ban them all, none of this cherry-picking crap.

Plus isn't school supposed to be Secular?

[The Norgan Alliance]

The whole point of this concert was to sing songs about the holiday season, Islam has no holiday that consistently falls during December so by including an Islamic song the choir seems both ignorant and preachy at the same time. Not to mention the fact that their song of choice included the phrase "Allahu Akbar", which is associated with terrorism here in the west.

"L00k guise 1'm abou7 to rek this sckrubb wi7h my d@nk maymay"

[Vassenor]

"L00k guise 1'm abou7 to rek this sckrubb wi7h my d@nk maymay"

So how is "Allahu Akbar" any different from "God wills it"?

[The Norgan Alliance]

"L00k guise 1'm abou7 to rek this sckrubb wi7h my d@nk maymay"

So how is "Allahu Akbar" any different from "God wills it"?

The difference is that the Christian songs that were sung didn't include "Deus Vult" in them. "Allahu Akbar" is a phrase that is seen as a threat in the west, due to its use by Islamic terrorists, even though it really just means "God is great".

[Vassenor]

So how is "Allahu Akbar" any different from "God wills it"?

The difference is that the Christian songs that were sung didn't include "Deus Vult" in them. "Allahu Akbar" is a phrase that is seen as a threat in the west, due to its use by Islamic terrorists, even though it really just means "God is great".

But that's the point. How many songs praising God do we consider to be perfectly normal?

[The Alma Mater]

The difference is that the Christian songs that were sung didn't include "Deus Vult" in them. "Allahu Akbar" is a phrase that is seen as a threat in the west, due to its use by Islamic terrorists, even though it really just means "God is great".

But that's the point. How many songs praising God do we consider to be perfectly normal?

Lots. But as soon as a terrorist group starts yelling "praise the LORD !" whenever they behead/rape/slaughter/explode/whatever nastiness you can imagine someone, people will start fearing the phrase.

[The Norgan Alliance]

But that's the point. How many songs praising God do we consider to be perfectly normal?

Lots. But as soon as a terrorist group starts yelling "praise the LORD !" whenever they behead/rape/slaughter/explode/whatever nastiness you can imagine someone, people will start fearing the phrase.

^ What he said