Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread

[Morr]

Yeah, you didn't know that?

I knew that. It's just jarring to hear people actually believe that.

I really don't understand how a god that claims himself to be "most compassionate" and "most merciful" would condemn sex workers providing charitable sex work and sexual education for the disabled to sin.

Islam isn't utilitarian. There are probably drinking contests for charity as well, that doesn't mean drinking can't be a sin.

[Czechanada]

I knew that. It's just jarring to hear people actually believe that.

I really don't understand how a god that claims himself to be "most compassionate" and "most merciful" would condemn sex workers providing charitable sex work and sexual education for the disabled to sin.

Islam isn't utilitarian. There are probably drinking contests for charity as well, that doesn't mean drinking can't be a sin.

That's not the best analogous comparison, though. Drinking in this case is separate from the act of charity as money is raised by a contest. In this case, prostitution is the act of charity in itself.

[Morr]

Islam isn't utilitarian. There are probably drinking contests for charity as well, that doesn't mean drinking can't be a sin.

That's not the best analogous comparison, though. Drinking in this case is separate from the act of charity as money is raised by a contest. In this case, prostitution is the act of charity in itself.

You can raise money through all sorts of immoral means for the purposes of charity.

[Islamic Meritocratic Transoxiana]

So we can have a non-flamewar topic for once, here's an inspiring story from Kenya: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35151967

In brief: Terrorists surrounded a bus carrying both Muslims and Christians and ordered them to separate to kill the Christians. The Muslims refused to budge and actually shielded the Cristians. Eventually, frustrated, the terrorists let them go, (though they did kill two people)

[The Wolven League]

So we can have a non-flamewar topic for once, here's an inspiring story from Kenya: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35151967

In brief: Terrorists surrounded a bus carrying both Muslims and Christians and ordered them to separate to kill the Christians. The Muslims refused to budge and actually shielded the Cristians. Eventually, frustrated, the terrorists let them go, (though they did kill two people)

Faith in humanity: +1 point

[Pulau Singapura]

So we can have a non-flamewar topic for once, here's an inspiring story from Kenya: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35151967

In brief: Terrorists surrounded a bus carrying both Muslims and Christians and ordered them to separate to kill the Christians. The Muslims refused to budge and actually shielded the Cristians. Eventually, frustrated, the terrorists let them go, (though they did kill two people)

Dayum, that was awesome (sorry for poor choice of wording, it's 1am)

[Morr]

So we can have a non-flamewar topic for once, here's an inspiring story from Kenya: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35151967

In brief: Terrorists surrounded a bus carrying both Muslims and Christians and ordered them to separate to kill the Christians. The Muslims refused to budge and actually shielded the Cristians. Eventually, frustrated, the terrorists let them go, (though they did kill two people)

That's really touching. Most courageous.

[Islamic Meritocratic Transoxiana]

That's not the best analogous comparison, though. Drinking in this case is separate from the act of charity as money is raised by a contest. In this case, prostitution is the act of charity in itself.

You can raise money through all sorts of immoral means for the purposes of charity.

There is a story regarding this: (I don't know if Sunnis also believe this as a true story, but I don't see why not) A bad deed only counts one in Islam, and a good deed 4. So a man decided to steal some bread and then give it to an orphan intending to 'hack the system,' and Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (a)* rebuked him for his actions.

*Alay-as Salam, 'peace be upon him.'

[Czechanada]

That's not the best analogous comparison, though. Drinking in this case is separate from the act of charity as money is raised by a contest. In this case, prostitution is the act of charity in itself.

You can raise money through all sorts of immoral means for the purposes of charity.

I don't think that you understood what I just wrote.

[Arkotania]

So we can have a non-flamewar topic for once, here's an inspiring story from Kenya: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35151967

In brief: Terrorists surrounded a bus carrying both Muslims and Christians and ordered them to separate to kill the Christians. The Muslims refused to budge and actually shielded the Cristians. Eventually, frustrated, the terrorists let them go, (though they did kill two people)

Some mistakenly believe that religious belief will override a person's humanity. Then again said folk are a bit lacking in humanity...

[Harkback Union]

So we can have a non-flamewar topic for once, here's an inspiring story from Kenya: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35151967

In brief: Terrorists surrounded a bus carrying both Muslims and Christians and ordered them to separate to kill the Christians. The Muslims refused to budge and actually shielded the Cristians. Eventually, frustrated, the terrorists let them go, (though they did kill two people)

Some mistakenly believe that religious belief will override a person's humanity. Then again said folk are a bit lacking in humanity...

Of course they didn't leave the bus. How on earth would they get to their destination if the bus blew up?
Or they would have to buy another ticket!

[Arkotania]

Some mistakenly believe that religious belief will override a person's humanity. Then again said folk are a bit lacking in humanity...

Of course they didn't leave the bus. How on earth would they get to their destination if the bus blew up?
Or they would have to buy another ticket!

Bureaucracy will be the death of terrorism.
"I'm sorry sir. I don't care what you plan to do on this bus, but you STILL need to buy a ticket to get on!"

[Socialist Czechia]

Yes, but Middle Eastern Christians also don't like Israel. It also helps that Hezbollah, as far as militant Islam goes, is really tolerant of Christianity.

A little late to the party here, but I do tend to support Hezbollah most of the same reasons as the rest of the people above did.


Also, prostitution=haram. I do think, however, that many are poor victims and with modern psychology, can be rehabilitated. For those evil people who profit from them though, strong punishment is necessary.

There is also question, what exactly can be considered as 'prostitution'.

What if girl is simply a slut and doesn't take anything for it, just makes more men happy?

[The State of Islam]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Hadith nice copy and paste job from an Islamophobic website. Good to know who you're getting you're Islam from.

By the way no two authentic Hadiths are ever contradictory.

Actually brother that's not entirely accurate

It's recommended to offer two rak'ats

Narrated ‘Aisha: Allah’s Messenger never missed two Rakat before the Fajr prayer and after the Asr
prayer openly and secretly
Sahih Bukhari 1:10:566

It's forbidden to offer two rak'ats
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Messenger forbade the offering of two prayers: 1. after the morning prayer till the sunrises.
2. after the ‘Asr prayer till the sun sets.
Sahih Bukhari 1:10:566

Are you illiterate? It says he never missed the two Rak'ah before Fajr. He forbade prayers after Fajr. The two Rak'ah prayer is permissabel because according to the Sunnah the Prophet also expanded on what times were impermissible to pray. 'Ali says in Sunan an-Nasa'i and Abu Dawud with Sahih chains that it is impermissible to pray after 'Asr unless the sun was still, white clear and high http://sunnah.com/urn/1005770
So you fail proving a contradiction rather your own ignorance

Are there such things as bad omens?
No.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: There is

no transitive disease, no evil omen, no safar, no hama…
Sahih Muslim 26:5508

Yes

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Umar: Allah's Messenger said, "there is neither 'Adha nor Tiyara,
and an evil omen is only in three: a horse, a woman and a house."
Sahih Bukhari 7:71:666

You come up with that from an Islamophobic website without even looking for a response? Shows how much of a knowledge seeker you are. Anyway the Shaykh at IslamQA as well as the Ikhwa at questionsonislam have answered this http://islamqa.info/en/27192 questionsonislam.com/question/it-true-believe-there-evil-omen . Damn that only took a quick google search I didn't even need to research that like I did the last one.

Wudhu
You should wash once

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts only once.
Sahih Bukhari 1:4:159
You should wash twice

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zaid:

The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts twice.
Sahih Bukhari 1:4:160
You should wash thrice

Narrated Humran: (the slave of 'Uthman) I saw 'Uthman bin 'Affan asking for a tumbler of water (and when it was brought) he poured water over his hands and washed them thrice and then put his right hand in the water container and rinsed his mouth, washed his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out. then he washed his face and forearrlns up to the elbows thrice, passed his wet hands over his head and washed his feet up to the ankles thrice. Then he said, "Allah's Apostle said 'If anyone Performs ablution like that of mine and offers a two-rak'at prayer during which he does not think of anything else (not related to the present prayer) then his past sins will be forgiven.' " After performing the ablution 'Uthman said, "I am going to tell you a Hadith which I would not have told you, had I not been compelled by a certain Holy Verse (the sub narrator 'Urwa said: This verse is: "Verily, those who conceal the clear signs and the guidance which we have sent down...)" (2:159). I heard the Prophet saying, 'If a man performs ablution perfectly and then offers the compulsory congregational prayer, Allah will forgive his sins committed between that (prayer) and the (next) prayer till he offers it.
Sahih Bukhari 1:4:161

Now ignoring your wet comment I'm going to answer this fully. All that needs to be said is that all three are permissible. The First Hadith has a mistranslation in it. The addition of the word "only" isn't there in the Arabic text. What the scholars have said (all scholars of all schools) is that it is more Sunnah to do it 3 times as we know the companions used to stick to the Sunnah fanatically. Also just to point out that these are not narrations going back to the Prophet. They are Fatawa. Whether he did it twice or once is obviously something of Ikhtilaf amongst the Sahabah. Once again you make no attempt to reconcile with these Hadiths instead of just calling them contradictory and rejecting them. It is not the Sunnah that is contradictory it is the Fatawa between these two Fuqaha. Make sure that you make that distinction son.

How long was Muhammad in Mecca for?

Ten years

Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet was neither conspicuously tall, nor short; neither, very white, nor tawny. His hair was neither much curled, nor very straight. Allah sent him (as an Messenger) at the age of forty (and after that) he stayed for ten years in Makkah, and for ten more years in Medina. Allah took him unto Him at the age of sixty, and he scarcely had ten white hairs on his head and in his beard
Sahih Bukhari 7:72:787

Thirteen years

Narrated Ibn Abbas: Allah's Messenger started receiving the Divine Inspiration at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Makkah for thirteen years, receiving the Divine Revelation. Then he was ordered to migrate and he lived as an Emigrant for ten years and then died at the age of sixty-three (years).
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:242

Fifteen years

Ibn 'Abbas reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stayed in Makkah for fifteen years (after his advent as a Prophet) and he heard the voice of Gabriel and saw his radiance for seven years but did not see any visible form, and then received revelation for ten years, and he stayed in Medina for ten years.
Sahih Muslim 30:5809

Once again you show your ignorance. Anyone who analyses these Ahadith properly would notice that those that say he spent 10 years in Makkah say he died at age 60 and those that say 13 say he died at the age of 63 and those that say he died at 15 say he died at 65 because 40 + 10 + 15 = 65. Notice a pattern? This is clearly the Sahabah trying to figure out through timelines how many years the prophet spent where. Ibn 'Abbas being an important individual and someone who cared a great deal about the Prophet was obviously very interested in knowing everything about the Prophet. So it doesn't take a genius to figure out that all that's happening is ibn 'Abbas changing his opinion and Anas giving his telling. The 'Ulamah have generally accepted that he died at 63 as the majority of reports say this and they give more precise details. We know the Sahabah disagreed on this issue as recorded in Sahih Muslim 5805. So rather we are seeing a disagreement of the Sahabah not a contradiction of the Sunnah. Once again you've brought up a non-issue.

I'll get back to you on your "dickish" comments to put it nicely tomorrow. But by the way, mocking a group for having people who live in poverty amongst them really only reflects badly on yourself. Dickhead.

[Arkotania]

A little late to the party here, but I do tend to support Hezbollah most of the same reasons as the rest of the people above did.


Also, prostitution=haram. I do think, however, that many are poor victims and with modern psychology, can be rehabilitated. For those evil people who profit from them though, strong punishment is necessary.

There is also question, what exactly can be considered as 'prostitution'.

What if girl is simply a slut and doesn't take anything for it, just makes more men happy?

Pretty sure that just goes under fornication. In fact prostitution probably fits under fornication as well.

[Jochistan]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Hadith nice copy and paste job from an Islamophobic website. Good to know who you're getting you're Islam from.

I have no idea how you got that I got some of them from WikiIslam. but regardless.

It was the first one that came up. I don't like them either. Like at all. But I was sort of in a hurry, for my excuse. Plus, you copy and paste all the time. In fact, that's like 90% of your posts, dude.

And most of them I didn't copy and paste from WikiIslam, which I tried to avoid for the most Part. I got my sources mostly from this
https://asimiqbal2nd.files.wordpress.co ... ctions.pdf

Actually brother that's not entirely accurate

It's recommended to offer two rak'ats

Narrated ‘Aisha: Allah’s Messenger never missed two Rakat before the Fajr prayer and after the Asr
prayer openly and secretly
Sahih Bukhari 1:10:566

It's forbidden to offer two rak'ats
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Messenger forbade the offering of two prayers: 1. after the morning prayer till the sunrises.
2. after the ‘Asr prayer till the sun sets.
Sahih Bukhari 1:10:566

Are you illiterate? It says he never missed the two Rak'ah before Fajr. He forbade prayers after Fajr. The two Rak'ah prayer is permissabel because according to the Sunnah the Prophet also expanded on what times were impermissible to pray. 'Ali says in Sunan an-Nasa'i and Abu Dawud with Sahih chains that it is impermissible to pray after 'Asr unless the sun was still, white clear and high http://sunnah.com/urn/1005770
So you fail proving a contradiction rather your own ignorance

Alright then. I accept that one. That's a legitimately good argument.

Are there such things as bad omens?
No.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: There is

no transitive disease, no evil omen, no safar, no hama…
Sahih Muslim 26:5508

Yes

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Umar: Allah's Messenger said, "there is neither 'Adha nor Tiyara,
and an evil omen is only in three: a horse, a woman and a house."
Sahih Bukhari 7:71:666

You come up with that from an Islamophobic website without even looking for a response? Shows how much of a knowledge seeker you are. Anyway the Shaykh at IslamQA as well as the Ikhwa at questionsonislam have answered this http://islamqa.info/en/27192 questionsonislam.com/question/it-true-believe-there-evil-omen . Damn that only took a quick google search I didn't even need to research that like I did the last one.

You hypocritically quote Questions on Islam. The same people that delivered a fatwa making (non lustful) music halal?
http://www.questionsonislam.com/questio ... aram-islam
as for Islam qa...Dude...all they said was "yeah this Hadith is just an exception to it" refusing to acknowledge that it's such a blatant contradiction. What puts that Hadith above the other one? They decided that contradiction was an exception? no.

Wudhu
You should wash once

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts only once.
Sahih Bukhari 1:4:159
You should wash twice

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zaid:

The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts twice.
Sahih Bukhari 1:4:160
You should wash thrice

Narrated Humran: (the slave of 'Uthman) I saw 'Uthman bin 'Affan asking for a tumbler of water (and when it was brought) he poured water over his hands and washed them thrice and then put his right hand in the water container and rinsed his mouth, washed his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out. then he washed his face and forearrlns up to the elbows thrice, passed his wet hands over his head and washed his feet up to the ankles thrice. Then he said, "Allah's Apostle said 'If anyone Performs ablution like that of mine and offers a two-rak'at prayer during which he does not think of anything else (not related to the present prayer) then his past sins will be forgiven.' " After performing the ablution 'Uthman said, "I am going to tell you a Hadith which I would not have told you, had I not been compelled by a certain Holy Verse (the sub narrator 'Urwa said: This verse is: "Verily, those who conceal the clear signs and the guidance which we have sent down...)" (2:159). I heard the Prophet saying, 'If a man performs ablution perfectly and then offers the compulsory congregational prayer, Allah will forgive his sins committed between that (prayer) and the (next) prayer till he offers it.
Sahih Bukhari 1:4:161

Now ignoring your wet comment I'm going to answer this fully. All that needs to be said is that all three are permissible. The First Hadith has a mistranslation in it. The addition of the word "only" isn't there in the Arabic text. What the scholars have said (all scholars of all schools) is that it is more Sunnah to do it 3 times as we know the companions used to stick to the Sunnah fanatically. Also just to point out that these are not narrations going back to the Prophet. They are Fatawa. Whether he did it twice or once is obviously something of Ikhtilaf amongst the Sahabah. Once again you make no attempt to reconcile with these Hadiths instead of just calling them contradictory and rejecting them. It is not the Sunnah that is contradictory it is the Fatawa between these two Fuqaha. Make sure that you make that distinction son.

I'm very likely older than you.

But the contradictions are still there. Whether or not you pussyfoot around and call them a "disagreement". when it's so obviously a contradiction. They couldn't figure it out. So...

How long was Muhammad in Mecca for?

Ten years

Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet was neither conspicuously tall, nor short; neither, very white, nor tawny. His hair was neither much curled, nor very straight. Allah sent him (as an Messenger) at the age of forty (and after that) he stayed for ten years in Makkah, and for ten more years in Medina. Allah took him unto Him at the age of sixty, and he scarcely had ten white hairs on his head and in his beard
Sahih Bukhari 7:72:787

Thirteen years

Narrated Ibn Abbas: Allah's Messenger started receiving the Divine Inspiration at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Makkah for thirteen years, receiving the Divine Revelation. Then he was ordered to migrate and he lived as an Emigrant for ten years and then died at the age of sixty-three (years).
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:242

Fifteen years

Ibn 'Abbas reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stayed in Makkah for fifteen years (after his advent as a Prophet) and he heard the voice of Gabriel and saw his radiance for seven years but did not see any visible form, and then received revelation for ten years, and he stayed in Medina for ten years.
Sahih Muslim 30:5809

Once again you show your ignorance. Anyone who analyses these Ahadith properly would notice that those that say he spent 10 years in Makkah say he died at age 60 and those that say 13 say he died at the age of 63 and those that say he died at 15 say he died at 65 because 40 + 10 + 15 = 65. Notice a pattern? This is clearly the Sahabah trying to figure out through timelines how many years the prophet spent where. Ibn 'Abbas being an important individual and someone who cared a great deal about the Prophet was obviously very interested in knowing everything about the Prophet. So it doesn't take a genius to figure out that all that's happening is ibn 'Abbas changing his opinion and Anas giving his telling. The 'Ulamah have generally accepted that he died at 63 as the majority of reports say this and they give more precise details. We know the Sahabah disagreed on this issue as recorded in Sahih Muslim 5805. So rather we are seeing a disagreement of the Sahabah not a contradiction of the Sunnah. Once again you've brought up a non-issue.

See the last sentence of Above.

The disagreement is still an inconsistency. You're accepting that there are inconsistencies.

This is the problem. Scholars have always disputed the Hadith. To say that they've always been accepted as 100 percent accurate is just ridiculous.
Not to mention that you outright refused to acknowledge the contradictions on Aisha's age, regulations for trading Gold and silver and who memorized the Qur'an I offered. Because...those were kind of major Contradictions.

And I'm not even going to bring up some of the contradictions it has with the Qur'an.

I say again, serious scholars throughout history have unanimously agreed that the Hadith vary in reliability. and some are entirely false by some Scholarly standards.

This is the irony. You say I can't tolerate ikhtilaf when you never have tolerated the views of anyone but yourself. Calling everyone else a Kafr.

Nobody thinks the Sahih Hadith are all trustworthy. There are weak links and contradictions that every normal scholar argues are incoherent. Every Scholar since the 6 books were declared Sahih have argued over the authenticity of many Hadith, if not most.

Salafis and Deobandis are unusual in saying that they're all completely true. Because everyone else argues over their authenticity and rejects several as inauthentic or abrogated.

[The Archregimancy]

First of all, let's remember that there's a mod who spent several years living in a Muslim country and maintains strong professional links in the Middle East.

So:

I'll get back to you on your "dickish" comments to put it nicely tomorrow. But by the way, mocking a group for having people who live in poverty amongst them really only reflects badly on yourself. Dickhead.

Jochistan you Khabith you would deny the Ahadith that are beyond Mutawatir and undeniably Sahih. All 4 Imams of the Sunnah are agreed on this likewise the Rawafid Ayatillats

The State of Islam, you will cease and desist referring to your fellow posters as either 'dickhead' or ' خبيث ' - and yes, I know precisely what the latter means.

*** Warned for flaming. ***

[The State of Islam]

You hypocritically quote Questions on Islam. The same people that delivered a fatwa making (non lustful) music halal?
http://www.questionsonislam.com/questio ... aram-islam
as for Islam qa...Dude...all they said was "yeah this Hadith is just an exception to it" refusing to acknowledge that it's such a blatant contradiction. What puts that Hadith above the other one? They decided that contradiction was an exception? no.

Very immature response. It is not hypocritical to quote anyone who you disagree with on a certain issue in Fiqh. Because then it's hypocritical to quote any Faqih on anything because undoubtedly they will all differ in some areas in Fiqh. So me quoting them for putting forward good knowledge isn't hypocritical in the slightest. It'd be like calling ibn 'Abbas hypocritical n'audhu billah if he quoted ibn 'Umar on something. Regardless you fail to understand what is being put forward to you. This is a disagreement in Fatawa amongst the Sahabah. Not a contradicting report of the Prophet.

But the contradictions are still there. Whether or not you pussyfoot around and call them a "disagreement". when it's so obviously a contradiction. They couldn't figure it out. So...

God even your insults are lame and cringey (wth is a pussyfoot? Sounds like a Dr. Seuss character). Once again you fail to understand what is being said (can't believe I have to repeat myself). This is a disagreement amongst the Sahabah and it is proof of that. These are not contradicting reports of the Prophet. It is a contradiction of the Sahabah I'll give you that. Not a contradicting report.
See the last sentence of Above.

The disagreement is still an inconsistency. You're accepting that there are inconsistencies.

This is the problem. Scholars have always disputed the Hadith. To say that they've always been accepted as 100 percent accurate is just ridiculous.
Not to mention that you outright refused to acknowledge the contradictions on Aisha's age, regulations for trading Gold and silver and who memorized the Qur'an I offered. Because...those were kind of major Contradictions.

And I'm not even going to bring up some of the contradictions it has with the Qur'an.

I say again, serious scholars throughout history have unanimously agreed that the Hadith vary in reliability. and some are entirely false by some Scholarly standards.

This is the irony. You say I can't tolerate ikhtilaf when you never have tolerated the views of anyone but yourself. Calling everyone else a Kafr.

Nobody thinks the Sahih Hadith are all trustworthy. There are weak links and contradictions that every normal scholar argues are incoherent. Every Scholar since the 6 books were declared Sahih have argued over the authenticity of many Hadith, if not most.

Salafis and Deobandis are unusual in saying that they're all completely true. Because everyone else argues over their authenticity and rejects several as inauthentic or abrogated.

Firstly son these are not inconsistencies within the Ahadith. They are inconsistencies within what the Sahabah said. So the Hadith is authentic maybe not what the Sahabi said as they are prone to mistakes being humans as I already quoted these disagreements existed.

Please read a book. I'm actually begging you. You're actually trying to tell me that when adh-Dhahabi or Ibn Kathir or Imam al-Bukhari or whoever for that matter says that something is Sahih. They don't mean it's Sahih? We already have a category for something that is not quite Sahih... It's called Hasan or Hasan Gharib. Seriously just read a book on 'Ilm al-Hadith like ibn as-Salah's Muqaddamah or something. And no one has debated amongst the Authenticity of Sahih al-Bukhari or Sahih Musliim and no there is little debate on the authenticity of Ahadith. Mistakes in grading of Ahadith have occasionally been pointed out but we have a clear system for determining authenticity so these are extremely rare.

Oh please so giving your opinion means I'm calling you a Kafir? I've never ever called anyone a Kafir on this forum, period. I've called certain ideologies Kufr like Rafd... Which even your Sufi wackos would agree on by the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XTKlEOjuE . Pretty much everyone apart from some wastemans on the internet say that those that abuse the Sahabah in particular Abu Bakr and 'Umar are Kuffar. Likewise I'm extremely tolerant in Fiqh. I've mentioned differences amongst the 'Ulamah and people in general.

Quote me a scholar of any sect that says that when a Hadith is Sahih it's authenticity is still questionable.

[The State of Islam]

First of all, let's remember that there's a mod who spent several years living in a Muslim country and maintains strong professional links in the Middle East.

So:

I'll get back to you on your "dickish" comments to put it nicely tomorrow. But by the way, mocking a group for having people who live in poverty amongst them really only reflects badly on yourself. Dickhead.

Jochistan you Khabith you would deny the Ahadith that are beyond Mutawatir and undeniably Sahih. All 4 Imams of the Sunnah are agreed on this likewise the Rawafid Ayatillats

The State of Islam, you will cease and desist referring to your fellow posters as either 'dickhead' or ' خبيث ' - and yes, I know precisely what the latter means.

*** Warned for flaming. ***

Wait so let me get this straight. You warn me for flaming for calling him a dickhead (well done for the Arabic text) but when he refers to people as hoodrats that's acceptable to you? Jochistan abuses people non-stop and acts like an arrogant prick to be honest and a pretentious one at that. You can ban me if you want for saying that, I really don't care. If you haven't figured it out already, Jochistan is an internet troll and his disgusting behaviour on this forum has been going unchecked for a long time. All I'm doing is being honest. He swears and uses wet insults all the time and I've never seen an admin or moderator check him on it.

[Jochistan]

I didn't call you a hoodrat, bro. I said Salafis won't be a majority no matter how many hoodrats they convert/prey on. So sorry if that wasn't politically correct enough for you.

Also, The entire concept of "weak hadith" "faulty chains" and falsified accounts I'm sure you're familiar with have been explored by scholars for centuries. If you aren't familiar with that concept. I'm truly sorry. It's a very well known concept over much debate. And present in the Shahih Hadith. They are organized that way in some cases.

And for the last time, I actually have read books by official Islamic scholars Just because I don't agree with your ludicrous stone age beliefs doesn't mean I don't know about this. I'll give you a list for your scrutiny if you would care to TG me about it.

And yes. Scholars have detailed fabricated and non canon or overruled Hadith in the Sahih books. Ibn al Arabi's commentary on Tirmidhi's hadith collection: aridhat al-Ahwazi details False hadith or at least hadith very likely to be false in the commentary. He also did some commentary on Bukharis (or maybe that was another Sheikh) and the rulings he made in Aridhat al Ahwazi carried over to many of Bukharis, especially regarding Prophetic traditions on entertainments and social etiquette. If you truly follow the Maliki Madhab I'm sure you're familiar with him. Even if you aren't he's a valuable contribution.
Properly trained hadith scholars are well aware that the hadith in collections such as Bukhari and Muslim vary from highly reliable to relatively unreliable. This is the official position of Islam based on the definition put from the consensus of scholars, kid. You cannot just ignore that because your creed and movement is so misguided as to say the opposite.


And on the Sufis comment. Yeah. I agree that people who defame Umar and Uthman extremely are being disrespectful. But I don't think their guilty of Kufr. Neitherdid Sheikh Nazim and neither does Sheikh Mehmet or Kabbani.

I encourage you to watch the video. Sheikh Nazim still refers to Shi'a as Brothers while refuting their beliefs and calling the practices Haram. Of course he's not going to stand for slander. And yet, he is not calling them Kafr. Just expressing his disapproval. As he specified in his contribution to the Amman message.

And no, you're not "tolerant" of other Muslims for shit. You're tolerant for a laughably slim margin of disagreement. Like wow, you're cool with a few Ashari'is and all four Madhabs...great.


Nothing you say is a legitimate arguement.Everything you say is a foaming, animalistic gibbering about the most trivial of disagreements. Its all a fucking dick measuring contest for you. Everything.
Seriously, why the fuck are you still here?

And why me? I'm one of the most traditionalist Muslims on this thread. And everyone...everyone here is a mild Hadith skeptic if not a full on Qur'anist. Why single me out for this shit when I present a simple classical scholarly fact? Its bullshit. But no, you have to go off with your vile ghetto mentality.

You're throwing a fucking temper tantrum for my "disgusting" behavior when you have demonstrated probably some of the most repulsive views and lowbrow mannerisms of any other regular here. By unanimous agreement, I daresay. I mean holy shit. You're a little terror (no pun intended) when you want to be.

And no, swearing isn't against the rules, nor is snark. If thats what you mean by your charmingly provincial term "wet insults".

[Kauthar]

First of all, let's remember that there's a mod who spent several years living in a Muslim country and maintains strong professional links in the Middle East.

So:





The State of Islam, you will cease and desist referring to your fellow posters as either 'dickhead' or ' خبيث ' - and yes, I know precisely what the latter means.

*** Warned for flaming. ***

Wait so let me get this straight. You warn me for flaming for calling him a dickhead (well done for the Arabic text) but when he refers to people as hoodrats that's acceptable to you? Jochistan abuses people non-stop and acts like an arrogant prick to be honest and a pretentious one at that. You can ban me if you want for saying that, I really don't care. If you haven't figured it out already, Jochistan is an internet troll and his disgusting behaviour on this forum has been going unchecked for a long time. All I'm doing is being honest. He swears and uses wet insults all the time and I've never seen an admin or moderator check him on it.

report specific examples then instead of flaming him.

[The Archregimancy]

report specific examples then instead of flaming him.

نعم

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

That are not what the scriptures says. Also Japheths is ancestors of Slavs and Turks together with Gog and Magog which is clear racism.

It's obviously just a bunch of stories, m'kay?

Not exactly how this works.

[Tafhan]

First of all, let's remember that there's a mod who spent several years living in a Muslim country and maintains strong professional links in the Middle East.

So:





The State of Islam, you will cease and desist referring to your fellow posters as either 'dickhead' or ' خبيث ' - and yes, I know precisely what the latter means.

*** Warned for flaming. ***

Wait so let me get this straight. You warn me for flaming for calling him a dickhead (well done for the Arabic text) but when he refers to people as hoodrats that's acceptable to you? Jochistan abuses people non-stop and acts like an arrogant prick to be honest and a pretentious one at that. You can ban me if you want for saying that, I really don't care. If you haven't figured it out already, Jochistan is an internet troll and his disgusting behaviour on this forum has been going unchecked for a long time. All I'm doing is being honest. He swears and uses wet insults all the time and I've never seen an admin or moderator check him on it.

You're the one who's been going unchecked since you got here. I'm utterly conviced that the only reason you havent been cracked down on is the mods figured you were just a foreigner who didn't know any better.

Your first comment was advocating death of homosexuals and blasphemers. You don't get to cry now because people are picking up on your ungodly hatred of everyone. Thats not how it works. Go scream your murderous doctrine at 16 year old Hijabless migrant girls. Nobody here cares.

[The BlAAtschApen]

The commentary on the mod action stops here. If you have anything specific to report, please use the Moderation Forum.

The Blaatschapen - Nationstates Moderator