NSG Senate Lobby: What Does Marcellus Wallace Look Like?

[Heraklea-]

It's to have a scorinated modifier instead of raw votes. I'm still not keen on the idea, but I'm willing to see a test example.

[MERIZoC]

Why shouldn't they be, so long as there isn't abuse?

I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying, but if I am, then there is no point in having them not be in the government, if they can do both, which to an extent they do.

Ah, misunderstood you.

[Intermountain States]

I have no idea what scorinator or any of these other things are, but does this mean that elections won't be determined by voting, but by a number generator? Sounds like a load of bullshit to me.

As far as I know, Presidential elections and possibly the entire Senate based off political parties will not be determined by voting, and by a 'scorinator', which is basically a number generator but with some changes made (basically for the Senate, the proposal was to be reliant on campaign donations; of courts that means we're all going to have to move to the right).

I personally think this proposal is the worst proposal ever made in the Senate. Worse than Baltonia's realism, worse than the UN proposal, worse than it all. If it is enacted, I think it would probably kill the Senate.

The use of scorinators (at least how I wanted it) will be relying mostly on how well a party/candidate can campaign. Doesn't mean it's completely reliant on money but on being able to promote your message to the general public. It's about having a catchy soundbyte, being able to spin an issue to your favor, convincing independents to vote for you while getting your base excited. Scorinators and campaign events put the elections in the hand of NPCs and how well you can get your message across.

[United Provinces of Atlantica]

Look, this is stupid. More time being spent arguing instead of RPing and making the RP more active. Just make sure the replacement for Battlion is not in the government. I don't think anything is nearly as bad as NWO's melodrama suggests, yes it would look better if admins were not all of the same small group but that's it.

Much more interesting is adding an RP element to elections for either president, parliament or both. If we want more activity that might work.

Arguing is the way to generate new ideas.

Anyways, adding an RP element is terrible. It alienates a large portion of Senators. I'd say around 90% of inactive Senators (basically they'll vote once in a while and that's it) would stop voting (because voting is near-pointless), while 10% would get more active. That's not an impressive amount. Don't count the people like myself who are certainly active in things like party organisation and politics but aren't massive RPers to still be as active as they currently are. I think only the massive RPers would really stay unaffected, as NSGS is no longer a simulation of NSG running a country but either some stupid scorinator or just another RP. I'm a bit of an RPer myself, don't get me wrong, but NSGS was not, and is not, simply a roleplay. It's much more than that.

As far as I know, Presidential elections and possibly the entire Senate based off political parties will not be determined by voting, and by a 'scorinator', which is basically a number generator but with some changes made (basically for the Senate, the proposal was to be reliant on campaign donations; of courts that means we're all going to have to move to the right).

I personally think this proposal is the worst proposal ever made in the Senate. Worse than Baltonia's realism, worse than the UN proposal, worse than it all. If it is enacted, I think it would probably kill the Senate.

The use of scorinators (at least how I wanted it) will be relying mostly on how well a party/candidate can campaign. Doesn't mean it's completely reliant on money but on being able to promote your message to the general public. It's about having a catchy soundbyte, being able to spin an issue to your favor, convincing independents to vote for you while getting your base excited. Scorinators and campaign events put the elections in the hand of NPCs and how well you can get your message across.

NSGS should not, and must not be a simulation of NSers who are particularly good at propaganda and politics, I don't think Calaverde should be in the hands of what the Admins judge to be good for your image and message (which could certainly lead to corruption; I'm not trying to make accusations, but it could happen to anyone). I should be in the hands of all NSers that join.

[Maklohi Vai]

I'd rather resign as admin than exclude myself from IC events and I probably speak for the others in saying that. Who would want to be an admin then?

Me. I'd be willing to stop RPing if it's what the RP needed. Ultimately, though, I think it would be detrimental to my admin role because I believe an admin needs to be up to date with what's happening in the RP, and there's no better way to do that than to participate.

I am also accepting nominations for the fifth admin position vacated by Battlion. Please tg my puppet Siroy. Self-nominations are not accepted.

[Beta Test]

Well, of course you would MV, you're selfless.

[Maklohi Vai]

Well, of course you would MV, you're selfless.

As a function of my position and what it entails, I try to be.

[Lykens]

MV being aggressive everybody .

Please leave the thread.

[NSG Senate Administrators]

The various Senate thread OPs have been (belatedly) updated. - Ainin

[Anatolio Rodarte]

Fighting for what's right. Re-establish the junta!

[New Werpland]

The various Senate thread OPs have been (belatedly) updated. - Ainin

Why? And what for?

[Arkolon]

I have no idea what scorinator or any of these other things are, but does this mean that elections won't be determined by voting, but by a number generator? Sounds like a load of bullshit to me.

As far as I know, Presidential elections and possibly the entire Senate based off political parties will not be determined by voting, and by a 'scorinator', which is basically a number generator but with some changes made (basically for the Senate, the proposal was to be reliant on campaign donations; of courts that means we're all going to have to move to the right).

I personally think this proposal is the worst proposal ever made in the Senate. Worse than Baltonia's realism, worse than the UN proposal, worse than it all. If it is enacted, I think it would probably kill the Senate.

Is English not your first language? I have stated, restated, and then reminded, multiple times, how such a campaign modifier would work, how it is inextricably tied to raw votes, how it there is no atmospheric noise involved, and how campaign donations, which might not anyway be part of the plan (thanks Brit, not a bad idea), would have to be limited or assured by the state.

It's to have a scorinated modifier instead of raw votes. I'm still not keen on the idea, but I'm willing to see a test example.

We'll go with Brit's idea that does not include money or campaign financement for at least the first time it's used.

All the system changes is that every raw vote for one party is multiplied by the campaign modifier. This isn't a huge modifier, it just means that, say if LDP-FDP is close, either party could win with that campaign modifier, instead of just having us watch hordes of active-for-a-day sleeper voters clock in and vote LDP. With IRV the process is only slightly different.

My ballot could look like this:
1. Conservative
2. Republicans
3. Agrarians

And all votes would be tallied up. When deciding who comes last, for the purposes of instant runoff voting, the votes for each party will be added their campaign modifier. So if the Conservatives got 27 first-place votes and a 1.1x (+10%) modifier, the Conservative's votes are actually 29.7. If the Green party that stood against it got 28 votes but no modifier (+0%) because their campaign trail was ineffective, they would only have 28 votes. This means that, due to campaigning, the Conservatives got to win. This process would have to be applied backwards in IRV; whoever got the most (or least, I'm actually just speculating how IRV works) last-place votes with that campaign modifier would get eliminated. If I'm not mistaken, it means that a party can avoid direct elimination if it campaigns well enough.

All modifiers would have to be decided by a nonpartisan electoral board. Now where to find someone who's nonpartisan in NSGS? I kind of want to ask some NSSports guy to help us out for a week or two.

[Arkolon]

Reading through the last three pages, no matter how you cut it, it is disconcerting that all four active game admins control the top four most important positions of the country: President, Prime Minister, Vice President, and Minister of the Interior. The two others are Collatis, who is actively involved in the accusations, and Zurkerx, whose innocence I am presuming. Even disregarding the corruption accusations, which I am not inclined to not believe, it's a scary truth. I'm not usually one for arbitrary game limits, but I think that, here, they're needed.

[Maklohi Vai]

Reading through the last three pages, no matter how you cut it, it is disconcerting that all four active game admins control the top four most important positions of the country: President, Prime Minister, Vice President, and Minister of the Interior. The two others are Collatis, who is actively involved in the accusations, and Zurkerx, whose innocence I am presuming. Even disregarding the corruption accusations, which I am not inclined to not believe, it's a scary truth. I'm not usually one for arbitrary game limits, but I think that, here, they're needed.

What's your proposal for a solution? We can't kick people out of their office as an admin just because they've been elected or have a certain position IC.

[Britanno 2]

I don't mean to stir tension here, but the reason why the left normally has all the admin positions is because they make better admins. It wouldn't hurt to have Batt's replacement (looks like you were right Nihil) come from the opposition, but I don't think the RP is impacted massively and I trust the current admins to act impartially.

[Arkolon]

Reading through the last three pages, no matter how you cut it, it is disconcerting that all four active game admins control the top four most important positions of the country: President, Prime Minister, Vice President, and Minister of the Interior. The two others are Collatis, who is actively involved in the accusations, and Zurkerx, whose innocence I am presuming. Even disregarding the corruption accusations, which I am not inclined to not believe, it's a scary truth. I'm not usually one for arbitrary game limits, but I think that, here, they're needed.

What's your proposal for a solution? We can't kick people out of their office as an admin just because they've been elected or have a certain position IC.

Sure we can. Why can't we? About time we got round to getting rid of cumul des mandats in Calaverde.

[Arkolon]

I don't mean to stir tension here, but the reason why the left normally has all the admin positions is because they make better admins. It wouldn't hurt to have Batt's replacement (looks like you were right Nihil) come from the opposition, but I don't think the RP is impacted massively and I trust the current admins to act impartially.

Oh, they're the best admins the game could have, no doubt about that. But when literally every important position is controlled by an admin, it becomes a visible problem.

[The Sarian]

I don't mean to stir tension here, but the reason why the left normally has all the admin positions is because they make better admins. It wouldn't hurt to have Batt's replacement (looks like you were right Nihil) come from the opposition, but I don't think the RP is impacted massively and I trust the current admins to act impartially.

This. I honestly don't mind which party the admins come from, as long as they are the best person for the job.

As for not allowing admins to hold IC positions, it's a frankly ridiculous idea. Excluding five generally active members of the RP will only harm activity, not to mention that all five of the admins hold important roles in the government.

[Lykens]

I don't mean to stir tension here, but the reason why the left normally has all the admin positions is because they make better admins. It wouldn't hurt to have Batt's replacement (looks like you were right Nihil) come from the opposition, but I don't think the RP is impacted massively and I trust the current admins to act impartially.

Oh, they're the best admins the game could have, no doubt about that. But when literally every important position is controlled by an admin, it becomes a visible problem.

Which is?

[Arkolon]

Oh, they're the best admins the game could have, no doubt about that. But when literally every important position is controlled by an admin, it becomes a visible problem.

Which is?

Homogeneity, corruption, cronyism, slipping activity, and essentially becoming a circlejerk between the four admins and their friends.

[The Nihilistic view]

I don't think it's a good idea to remove them from the IC part of the RP. And they are where they are in the government ICly because they were voted to those positions by their parties and the coalition. The PM for example is then responsible for appointing ministers and often in line with consultations with party members. It's fully democratic and moaning about it frankly is ridiculous and basically saying the Lib Dems have no right to democratically elect the Prime Minister candidate they want form their party because people outside the party don't like it.

[Arkolon]

I don't think it's a good idea to remove them from the IC part of the RP. And they are where they are in the government ICly because they were voted to those positions by their parties and the coalition. The PM for example is then responsible for appointing ministers and often in line with consultations with party members. It's fully democratic and moaning about it frankly is ridiculous and basically saying the Lib Dems have no right to democratically elect the Prime Minister candidate they want form their party because people outside the party don't like it.

Only one of them was really voted in democratically. Malgrave won the Presidential election, who in turn technocratically appointed MV as his VP and Beta as his PM (two more admins), and then Beta assigned the last admin Ainin as Minister of the Interior, completing the list of admins in top jobs. Don't get me wrong, I like these people, and they provide a very valuable service to the game. But we have to treat this with at least some kind of suspicion and doubt. Alright, it's a new Senate and we needed stability, but that was before. Out of fairness, if the LDP/DL does win once more for a third consecutive term, can the admins at least give half of the positions they currently hold to normal players? Just voluntarily, not out of group-imposed game limitations.

[The Nihilistic view]

I don't think it's a good idea to remove them from the IC part of the RP. And they are where they are in the government ICly because they were voted to those positions by their parties and the coalition. The PM for example is then responsible for appointing ministers and often in line with consultations with party members. It's fully democratic and moaning about it frankly is ridiculous and basically saying the Lib Dems have no right to democratically elect the Prime Minister candidate they want form their party because people outside the party don't like it.

Only one of them was really voted in democratically. Malgrave won the Presidential election, who in turn technocratically appointed MV as his VP and Beta as his PM (two more admins), and then Beta assigned the last admin Ainin as Minister of the Interior, completing the list of admins in top jobs. Don't get me wrong, I like these people, and they provide a very valuable service to the game. But we have to treat this with at least some kind of suspicion and doubt. Alright, it's a new Senate and we needed stability, but that was before. Out of fairness, if the LDP/DL does win once more for a third consecutive term, can the admins at least give half of the positions they currently hold to normal players? Just voluntarily, not out of group-imposed game limitations.

What part of the Liberal Democrats voted for Beta to be our PM candidate don't you get? He was democratically elected to the position by the party in a turnout of around 90%. If the Lib dems want Beta as PM and vote for him then he should be PM if we win the elections. No amount of moaning from the outside should affect the internal affairs of the party. Stop trying to meddle in the IC affairs of a party OOCly.

[Arkolon]

Only one of them was really voted in democratically. Malgrave won the Presidential election, who in turn technocratically appointed MV as his VP and Beta as his PM (two more admins), and then Beta assigned the last admin Ainin as Minister of the Interior, completing the list of admins in top jobs. Don't get me wrong, I like these people, and they provide a very valuable service to the game. But we have to treat this with at least some kind of suspicion and doubt. Alright, it's a new Senate and we needed stability, but that was before. Out of fairness, if the LDP/DL does win once more for a third consecutive term, can the admins at least give half of the positions they currently hold to normal players? Just voluntarily, not out of group-imposed game limitations.

What part of the Liberal Democrats voted for Beta to be our PM candidate don't you get? He was democratically elected to the position by the party in a turnout of around 90%. If the Lib dems want Beta as PM and vote for him then he should be PM if we win the elections. No amount of moaning from the outside should affect the internal affairs of the party. Stop trying to meddle in the IC affairs of a party OOCly.

1 vote away.

Never forget :'(.

[The Nihilistic view]

Oh I'm not denying it was a close vote but to say it's some admin conspiracy or even that it might look like it might be or even looks bad is preposterous.