The (Regenerated) Doctor Who Discussion Thread

[Wisconsin9]

I was really rather hoping that they'd get a new villain in. Ah well. That last bit overshadowed the rest of it for me a little, but I still liked the episode.

[Nationstatelandsville]

I was really rather hoping that they'd get a new villain in. Ah well. That last bit overshadowed the rest of it for me a little, but I still liked the episode.

I still prefer her as the Valeyard, but Gomez's Master is much better than I thought it would be.

[The Corparation]

Realized they were Cybermen when they started talking about the dark water.

Still only partway through, the tanks are opening right now.

It took you that long? As soon as they moved, to me it was a dead giveaway. We knew there would be cybermen in this episode, Cybermen love being in crypts like that so they can step out in formation at the same time for max badassery. The darkwater comments just confirmed it.

[Wisconsin9]

Realized they were Cybermen when they started talking about the dark water.

Still only partway through, the tanks are opening right now.

It took you that long? As soon as they moved, to me it was a dead giveaway. We knew there would be cybermen in this episode, Cybermen love being in crypts like that so they can step out in formation at the same time for max badassery. The darkwater comments just confirmed it.

Some formation they held, trickling out like that in clumps of two or three.

[Ameriganastan]

...Were people really surprised by that?

They showed Cybermen marching in the preview for this episode last week. It was kind of obvious.

[Wisconsin9]

...Were people really surprised by that?

They showed Cybermen marching in the preview for this episode last week. It was kind of obvious.

I don't really remember the previews.

[Nationstatelandsville]

...Were people really surprised by that?

They showed Cybermen marching in the preview for this episode last week. It was kind of obvious.

I wasn't surprised, just enjoyed it.

They ought to have kept the Cybermen secret, though, given how much it was built up to.

[The Corparation]

It took you that long? As soon as they moved, to me it was a dead giveaway. We knew there would be cybermen in this episode, Cybermen love being in crypts like that so they can step out in formation at the same time for max badassery. The darkwater comments just confirmed it.

Some formation they held, trickling out like that in clumps of two or three.

True. They didn't do it all that well this time. Normally they do it better.

[Planita]

I just watched it, it was... interesting...

[Nationstatelandsville]

The Master's reintroducing himself to the Doctor; "Hello! I hope you're well. How may I assist you with your death?"

A perfect summation of their relationship.

[Planita]

The Master's reintroducing himself to the Doctor; "Hello! I hope you're well. How may I assist you with your death?"

A perfect summation of their relationship.

I found the whole idea of the dead being conscience unsettling... and physically impossible

[Nationstatelandsville]

The Master's reintroducing himself to the Doctor; "Hello! I hope you're well. How may I assist you with your death?"

A perfect summation of their relationship.

I found the whole idea of the dead being conscience unsettling... and physically impossible

It's most likely a lie, concocted by the Master to get the people to accept 3W and the Cybermen.

Why she gives a shit what people think of her robot army, I'm not sure.

[Wisconsin9]

I found the whole idea of the dead being conscience unsettling... and physically impossible

It's most likely a lie, concocted by the Master to get the people to accept 3W and the Cybermen.

Why she gives a shit what people think of her robot army, I'm not sure.

Well, it's important to remember that she's bugshit crazy.

[Nationstatelandsville]

It's most likely a lie, concocted by the Master to get the people to accept 3W and the Cybermen.

Why she gives a shit what people think of her robot army, I'm not sure.

Well, it's important to remember that she's bugshit crazy.

While true, the Master has never before taken unnecessary measures.

Mind you, necessary to the Master means "helps kill a bunch of people" or "pisses off the Doctor".

[Wisconsin9]

Well, it's important to remember that she's bugshit crazy.

While true, the Master has never before taken unnecessary measures.

Mind you, necessary to the Master means "helps kill a bunch of people" or "pisses off the Doctor".

Then maybe it isn't a lie. I mean, I don't think that they're harnessing the minds of everybody who's ever died, but you know what would very much not surprise me? If Harold Saxon had, oh, I don't know, proposed that some gizmo be put in morgues, and that gizmo just happened to have something in it that copied the minds of the recently deceased....

[The Archregimancy]

Also, my jaw actually dropped when they said the "two hearts" line and I began patching together who Missy was. The weird thing was my little brother mentioned the possibility of The Master coming back earlier tonight before we watched the episode.

Though earlier in the episode, when the Doctor had worked out the two hearts, but we hadn't had the big reveal yet, I was very briefly sure Missy was Romana on the basis of the "I'm the one you abandoned; did you think I wouldn't find my way back [sic]?" line (and let's not worry too much there about other versions of post-E Space Romana).

Which, to be honest, would have had me really excited as opposed to mildly excited.

I still really liked the episode, but the big reveal was just a teensy bit predictable. Still, I suppose there's something to be said for being predictable every now and then rather than impossibly convoluted.

[Kouralia]

I feel as though that timeline may have just been aborted, given as Danny's body is likely a Cyberman by now.

It's Doctor Who. There are easily a thousand preexisting ways to give him a new body without inventing new handwavium. If he survives he'll get his body back somehow.

New handwavium - there appeared to be no form of damage to (what remained of) the bodies in the tanks. Along with the description of them as exoskeletons (assuming that can be believed and is not some BS), they are presumably not the tortuously altered, sawbones-and-injections-and-flesh-slicing that we've seen before. Along with the concept of 'Cybermen from Cyberspace', we could be seeing some form of non-invasive exoskeleton remote-controlled by a signal from the Nethersphere.

In which case... open the cybersuit up (like Iron Man's suit... or even just 'a more developed version of the IRL wearable combat exoskeletons') before Danny's body decomposes, and find a way of reverting his mind to normal (in the event he presses delete - which could be the race against time in the finale) and transfer it back to the body.

It's most likely a lie, concocted by the Master to get the people to accept 3W and the Cybermen.

Why she gives a shit what people think of her robot army, I'm not sure.

Because that sanctuary appears to only be for the very famous/rich. I imagine it would've taken a long time to fill it up with those people. If they'd revealed it too early and been like 'hey guys, this is the robots we're turning people into at 3W', then a certain Intelligence Taskforce would have definitely turned up, and we've seen that anti-aircraft tank missiles can destroy Cybermen. If it were even at the point with ten cybermen they'd be screwed.

[Castaco]

After watching the episode Im already hoping missy is lying about being te new master, as a couple people have already said I was hoping for a new villain or someone we don't see often eg. The Rani. I kinda suspect she is lying because of certian reasons, but maybe it was just me who thought it wasn't the right time to bring back the master. Best bit of all the episode has to go to the iPad Steve jobs joke.

[Conscentia]

...Were people really surprised by that?

They showed Cybermen marching in the preview for this episode last week. It was kind of obvious.

I only use the previews to judge whether the next episode looks interesting or not. Then I forget them. I don't try an predict the next episode like you lot seem to on this thread.

How was it obvious? Could just have easily have had the cybermen seize the facility, rather than it being a cyber-facility from the start. In-fact, that is how the cybermen have operated in the past - infiltrating an existing facility, picking people off to be upgraded, before putting their plan into action when the Doctor shows up.
I didn't know it was a cyber-facility until they intended it - when the doors shut.

[Utceforp]

After watching the episode Im already hoping missy is lying about being te new master, as a couple people have already said I was hoping for a new villain or someone we don't see often eg. The Rani. I kinda suspect she is lying because of certian reasons, but maybe it was just me who thought it wasn't the right time to bring back the master. Best bit of all the episode has to go to the iPad Steve jobs joke.

Don't spoil it.

[Kylarnatia]

Also, my jaw actually dropped when they said the "two hearts" line and I began patching together who Missy was. The weird thing was my little brother mentioned the possibility of The Master coming back earlier tonight before we watched the episode.

Though earlier in the episode, when the Doctor had worked out the two hearts, but we hadn't had the big reveal yet, I was very briefly sure Missy was Romana on the basis of the "I'm the one you abandoned; did you think I wouldn't find my way back [sic]?" line (and let's not worry too much there about other versions of post-E Space Romana).

Which, to be honest, would have had me really excited as opposed to mildly excited.

I still really liked the episode, but the big reveal was just a teensy bit predictable. Still, I suppose there's something to be said for being predictable every now and then rather than impossibly convoluted.

The one thing that confuses me though, is how on earth did the Doctor "abandon" her? Last time I checked, the Master willingly threw themselves in the line of fire in order to enact revenge on the Time Lords for what they'd done to them, therefore leading to them being drawn into the pocket universe that Gallifrey was trapped in when the rift between it and the universe closed at the end of 'End of Time Pt. 2' finale.

Did the Master somehow believe that the Doctor would come and rescue her, but the fact that they never did re-inspired her hatred for him? She could be referring to the point in time where the Doctor actually trapped Gallifrey in the pocket universe and didn't, like, stop off and pick her up before carrying it out, but then I don't see how that'd sync up with the events from "End of Time Pt. 2" as that Gallifrey was supposedly already coming out of that pocket universe (or trying to), and at the very least wasn't as heavily under siege as Gallifrey was during "Day of the Doctor" so couldn't have been from the same point in time (at least in my mind).

Then again, the Master being the batshit insane person that she is, she's probably willing to look for any excuse to justify wanting the Doctor's head. That and it's not unlike the show creators to change canon slightly to fit their version of events more than those of their predecessors.

I don't know, I just can't get my head around this idea of how the Doctor supposedly "abandoned" the Master, when it was her choice to throw herself at Rassilon in an act of revenge at the end of "End of Time Pt. 2"

[Kouralia]

...I don't see how that'd sync up with the events from "End of Time Pt. 2" as that Gallifrey was supposedly already coming out of that pocket universe (or trying to), and at the very least wasn't as heavily under siege as Gallifrey was during "Day of the Doctor" so couldn't have been from the same point in time (at least in my mind).

In the Day of The Doctor, there's an exchange along the lines of 'What about the council?' 'The Council's plan has already failed.' which makes me think that they tried to transport Gallifrey from before the point in Day of The Doctor when they get put in a parallel universe.

What I think wrt Missy is that he expected to be rescued - as the Doctor is wont to do when he's not being killed by radiation - but wasn't, and something then elicited a regeneration and an escape from wherever they ended up.

[Nationstatelandsville]

...I don't see how that'd sync up with the events from "End of Time Pt. 2" as that Gallifrey was supposedly already coming out of that pocket universe (or trying to), and at the very least wasn't as heavily under siege as Gallifrey was during "Day of the Doctor" so couldn't have been from the same point in time (at least in my mind).

In the Day of The Doctor, there's an exchange along the lines of 'What about the council?' 'The Council's plan has already failed.' which makes me think that they tried to transport Gallifrey from before the point in Day of The Doctor when they get put in a parallel universe.

What I think wrt Missy is that he expected to be rescued - as the Doctor is wont to do when he's not being killed by radiation - but wasn't, and something then elicited a regeneration and an escape from wherever they ended up.

Did we ever consider that the Master is just an asshole?

I think she's just trying to make the Doctor feel bad about himself; Gallifrey is his largest insecurity, and she's attacking it to hurt him.

The Master doesn't need a motive to hate the Doctor; he always has. Simm's Master simply hated Rassilon more, which is why he died the way he did. Now Rassilon is gone or out of reach, and the new Master can get back to what he lives for - fucking with the Doctor's head.

[Kouralia]

I'm annoyed that it took me so long to realise that Danny's 'I love you' wasn't simply him being unsure of what to say - it was the words that Clara said he and he alone would own, and were the last words he'd ever heard in his life.

It was literally the most secure, most intimate, most personal thing he could have said to Clara and it just so happened to be a cliché - and she didn't realise it either.

[Nationstatelandsville]

I'm annoyed that it took me so long to realise that Danny's 'I love you' wasn't simply him being unsure of what to say - it was the words that Clara said he and he alone would own, and were the last words he'd ever heard in his life.

It was literally the most secure, most intimate, most personal thing he could have said to Clara and it just so happened to be a cliché - and she didn't realise it either.

Danny saved her life with those words, too.

That's almost Rory-levels of badass.