[Draft] Protection of Religious Foods

[Silly Nation]

Hey so this is my first WA proposal and I definitely need some help. I did read the rules and suggestions, so I think this is correct, but I would enjoy your criticism and suggestions:

Protection of Religious Foods
DEFINES: Kosher as satisfying the requirements of Jewish law as fit for eating.
DEFINES: Halal as satisfying the requirements of Muslim law as fit for eating.
DEFINES: Other Religious foods as any other food that is specifically sanctioned or blessed by a recognized religious organization as fit for eating.
NOTING that there is no restriction on the false advertisement of religious products in the WA, and there is great benefit for companies to label their products as religiously approved.
AND that there could easily be illegitimate religious blessings on foods.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED No company, tradesperson, or any other sort of merchant can sell food products advertised as kosher, halal, or otherwise religiously approved, across international borders, without the license of the WA. In order to protect the rights of those that have chosen to eat foods that are religiously fit.
PROCESS DESCRIBED:
A. For an organization:
An organization that approves foods as religiously fit must apply for license, in which the WA will approve based on the following qualifications:
1. The organization reflects the beliefs of the targeted religion.
2. The organization is backed by major religious denominations or religious government.
3. The organization has a clearly recognizable and trademarked symbol

B. For an individual
An individual, independent of any licensed organization, which applies for a license to deem products religiously fit, must be backed by a major religious denomination or religious government.
All licensing is subject to the WA’s discretion.
The WA has the authority to confiscate all products labeled as religiously fit that are not approved by the WA.

[Hakio]

"Hahaha!" Sia laughs hysterically, "Yeah, yeah no."

[Sierra Lyricalia]

I'm unclear as to how this is an international issue, Ambassador. Do the religious groups themselves not have the power to bless/license or condemn foods or sources of food prior to retail sale? There are several resolutions already on the board protecting the rights of religious believers, and I'd be astonished to learn that some nation has managed to evade every last one of them in repressing the ability to establish market standards for religion-sanctioned food products.

OOC: You might also have a problem using real world terms and religions as examples, and arguably they're not even needed to get your point across and make the substance of your mandates binding.

[Separatist Peoples]

"What about the Eternal Kawiians and their Cute One? Seems a mite unfair to exclude them when they have a shrine over in the bar!"

OOC: welcome to the GA! This is an excellent first try, but the NS multiverse includes numerous alternate religions, cultures, and species. Your current version seems a bit narrow in those regards. I suggest taking a little time to debate other proposals until you get the feel for the scope of Roleplaying here, then come back and give this another shot? There's no substitute for experience, and the Festering Snakepit is deinitely an experience!

[Silly Nation]

I'm unclear as to how this is an international issue, Ambassador. Do the religious groups themselves not have the power to bless/license or condemn foods or sources of food prior to retail sale? There are several resolutions already on the board protecting the rights of religious believers, and I'd be astonished to learn that some nation has managed to evade every last one of them in repressing the ability to establish market standards for religion-sanctioned food products.

OOC: You might also have a problem using real world terms and religions as examples, and arguably they're not even needed to get your point across and make the substance of your mandates binding.

Thanks man. Could you specifically refer me to some of those resolutions?

[Hirota]

Why are only two minority faiths worthy of particular protection?

NOTING that there is no restriction on the false advertisement of religious products in the WA, and there is great benefit for companies to label their products as religiously approved.

You'll have to persuade me that religious products can be anything other than a result of false advertisment before I will be compelled to support.

Finally, this draft legislation does absolutely nothing to target religious foods which carry health risks - for example Bushmeat is used by many religions yet is known to be a transmission vector of many diseases.

[Grays Harbor]

Category? Strength?

(Not that I see this as something which is in any way necessary)

[The Eternal Kawaii]

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised

Why would we even ask for this Assembly to certify foods as permissible under our faith's Jihi Code? Can any representative here even explain what the Jihi Code entails?

[Bears Armed]

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised

Why would we even ask for this Assembly to certify foods as permissible under our faith's Jihi Code? Can any representative here even explain what the Jihi Code entails?

"Any representative here apart from you yourself, you mean?
"Ur'rmm...
"Well, let's see. You can't eat meat or other products from species that are also used as working animals, something about treating the animals concerned with respect, and you can eat game or fish but there's some kind of restriction on selling those meats although if they're given to you by whoever caught them then that's hokay... Hrright? Not sure hwhat else..."

Artorrios o SouthWoods,
ChairBear, Bears Armed Mission at the World Assembly.

[Goddess Relief Office]

DEFINES: Kosher as satisfying the requirements of Jewish law as fit for eating.
DEFINES: Halal as satisfying the requirements of Muslim law as fit for eating.

The mentioning of Halal, Muslim,Kosher, Jewish, would make the proposal illegal under the rules. Those religions don't exist in the NS world except in a very round-about way in the form of "regions".

Please see: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=159348

Real World Violations

George Bush, Barack Obama, Hammas, France, The Michigan Compiled Laws (Annotated), Earth, Milky Way, and Smith & Wesson do not exist in the NationStates world. Don't bring them up in Proposals. This includes references to real world documents, movies, and books. This is really easy to grasp and is a "bright line" violation. A Proposal that is wonderfully written, but mentions "the Great Wall of China" will be deleted. Also, while it acceptable to use real world laws and UN resolutions as a starting point, don't plagiarize.

You can still make it work without mentioning those terms. See how others do it without specifically saying Christian or Muslim or whatever religion:
GA #141 Permit Male Circumcision
GA #286 Reproductive Freedoms

[The Dark Star Republic]

DEFINES: Kosher as satisfying the requirements of Jewish law as fit for eating.
DEFINES: Halal as satisfying the requirements of Muslim law as fit for eating.

The mentioning of Halal, Muslim,Kosher, Jewish, would make the proposal illegal under the rules.

Not sure it would. (Though it's easy guess who would see it differently.)

That said I do agree with the general sentiment that it should be made a more general reference. There's no need to include the specific terms anyway, given the way the proposal is written.

---

"We don't see why this should be specific to religious foods. It seems to fall under the general rubric of false advertising. Secular examples might include a vegetarian wanting to be assured their food wasn't made using animal products, an economic nationalist wanting to know their food was produced within their own country, or a clueless Luddite wanting to know their food was free of GM products. Something on labelling and licensing in general would be much more appropriate."

~ Vice-Colonel Truculent Bilgewater
Ambassador to the WA

[The Eternal Kawaii]

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised

Why would we even ask for this Assembly to certify foods as permissible under our faith's Jihi Code? Can any representative here even explain what the Jihi Code entails?

"Any representative here apart from you yourself, you mean?
"Ur'rmm...
"Well, let's see. You can't eat meat or other products from species that are also used as working animals, something about treating the animals concerned with respect, and you can eat game or fish but there's some kind of restriction on selling those meats although if they're given to you by whoever caught them then that's hokay... Hrright? Not sure hwhat else..."

Artorrios o SouthWoods,
ChairBear, Bears Armed Mission at the World Assembly.

We commend Representative Artorrios for their willingness to learn of Kawaiian ways. Their explanation, though incomplete, is close to the mark. The Jihi Code is the Kawaiian religious law of animal husbandry, which classifies animal products as "permissible" or "impermissible" depending on the way the animal providing them was raised, if domestic, or taken from the wild if not. It's quite complicated, and we will not bore this Assembly with the details.

The point being, since the Jihi Code is complicated, Kawaiian producers of animal products require certification by the central Diaspora Church authority. It's not something we can delegate to non-Kawaiians.

[Three Weasels]

Though we typically identify as "IntFed", we see no purpose to this. Despite being poorly composed, it's a matter bested suited for local governments. It's not an international issue. Nyar!!

How is this even a concern for the WA?

How can you justify a proposal that purposely omits minority faiths from protection? Why does it need to be a "major religious denomination" or "religious government" - might be easier just to cal it a theocracy.

Why does the WA need to be involved in the licensing of "religious food"? How does this improve the world?

Also... which category does this waste of paper belong to?

[BattleWorld]

This is ridiculous, my nation could start a cult and deem all food religious, just so we can tax it. Get some experience before you start drafting.

[Infinite Freedom]

Seriously? People out to be able to sell whatever they want untaxed regardless of religious beliefs. This proposal is garbage.

[Rapallo]

I got quite a nice little laugh out of this. So many holes in this, you might want to take a step back and get some perspective and maybe find a co-author if you wish to push on this issue.

But here is a nice little situation where this proposal gets in hot water. Not all religions on NS are organized like they are in the real world. For instance. The Grand Unity inside of my nation is organized as a Bussiness so by the language of this draft they would have to formally support themselves and then get approval from the WA to sell foodstuffs that fall under their spiritual beliefs.

Also why only MAJOR religious denominations, and what constitutes a MAJOR religious denomination/religious government.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Though we typically identify as "IntFed", we see no purpose to this. Despite being poorly composed, it's a matter bested suited for local governments. It's not an international issue. Nyar!!

How is this even a concern for the WA?

Oh, for the same reason genetically modified foods or expiration dates were concerns for the WA, I would imagine.

Although I'm willing to wager that many of the proud "IntFed" voices sounding off against this as an international concern are only doing so because it pertains to religious freedom. Which is practically the only freedom the anti-sovereigntist brigades in this body refuse to recognize. Remember when Family and Religion was killed because Freedom of Expression already (supposedly) protected religious liberty? Ah, fun times.

Also... which category does this waste of paper belong to?

I don't know...perhaps one of the ones used for genetically modified foods or expiration dates? Free Trade or Social Justice?

Nyar!!

[Frustrated Franciscans]

I'll start off with a sigh.
Then a proper, "Welcome to the World Assembly!"

OK, you have a number of problems here. You can't mention real world religions. It's annoying and I wish the editors of the daily issues would adhere to that as well but not a deal breaker. So let's get into the gist of what you are trying to achieve. I'm going to super condense this for a moment. I'm thinking of trademark. Yes, that's definitely it; a "religious" trademark.

World Assembly Resolution #256 addresses "foreign trademarks."

So if you define religious dietary regulations as trademarks owned by the respective religious bodies, then under WAR #256, these trademarks would have to be recognized in all member states and could not be abused by anyone seeking to falsely label their products. You don't need WAR #256 to have the notion of religious trademark hold, so I don't think it's a house of cards violation.

That would also indicate this is a free trade - mild resolution.

[Percussionland]

You clearly just don't get it, so I will now explain everything wrong with this proposal.

Protection of Religious Foods
DEFINES: Kosher as satisfying the requirements of Jewish law as fit for eating.
DEFINES: Halal as satisfying the requirements of Muslim law as fit for eating.

Okay, normally arbitrary numbers are a problem, but you have arbitrary religions. You are too specific to represent all equally.
DEFINES: Other Religious foods as any other food that is specifically sanctioned or blessed by a recognized religious organization as fit for eating.

Who cares? I could start a cult in my basement and wave a candle around a loaf of bread, it doesn't mean law must protect that loaf of bread.
NOTING that there is no restriction on the false advertisement of religious products in the WA, and there is great benefit for companies to label their products as religiously approved.

Whether or not something is religiously approved is irrelevant to the populous, it's food, and anyone can eat it.
AND that there could easily be illegitimate religious blessings on foods.

Subjective. To Atheists, no religious blessing is legitimate, and law cannot have opinions, as this draft is just an overflow of religious opinion.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED No company, tradesperson, or any other sort of merchant can sell food products advertised as kosher, halal, or otherwise religiously approved, across international borders, without the license of the WA. In order to protect the rights of those that have chosen to eat foods that are religiously fit.

This restricts religious freedoms, which you have tried so hard to protect, by making everyone get a license to produce spiritually ok food. And again, do I need a license for the bread I waved a candle around with my basement cult? This is just unrealistic.
PROCESS DESCRIBED:
A. For an organization:
An organization that approves foods as religiously fit must apply for license, in which the WA will approve based on the following qualifications:
1. The organization reflects the beliefs of the targeted religion.
2. The organization is backed by major religious denominations or religious government.
3. The organization has a clearly recognizable and trademarked symbol
And pray tell, what WA member will volunteer for this awful job?
B. For an individual
An individual, independent of any licensed organization, which applies for a license to deem products religiously fit, must be backed by a major religious denomination or religious government.
So now you are discriminating against minor religious denominations?
All licensing is subject to the WA’s discretion.
The WA has the authority to confiscate all products labeled as religiously fit that are not approved by the WA.
Again, what unhappy soul does this?

This is just awful. It is a mess of contradictions, illegality, and downright foolishness. This has no chance of passing, or even making quorum. In fact, it would most likely get taken down by the moderators. Study WA legislation before you try drafting laws again, so you don't waste our time with this bureaucratic nonsense.

[Three Weasels]

Also... which category does this waste of paper belong to?

I don't know...perhaps one of the ones used for genetically modified foods or expiration dates? Free Trade or Social Justice?

Nyar!!

Except it would be cramming some mighty big clodhoppers into some real tiny slipper and no shoe horn could help it.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Yeah, well, that's ridiculous. If a shoehorn could fit the expiration-dates and genetically modified-foods proposals into their respective categories, then this one could be crammed into one too. Not that I think this subject matter is appropriate for the WA - I don't, unless it could be incorporated into a broader resolution on religious liberty (which trust me, given the anti-religion prejudices of this body, is not gonna happen) - I just think it's silly to say it's totally fine to ram genetically modified-foods regulations through as Free Trade and expiration-dates regulations as Social Justice, but there's no place whatsoever for this proposal. Anything relating to commerce or public welfare can fit into either of those respective categories, if the proposal is tailored the right way.

[Sauvage]

You clearly just don't get it, so I will now explain everything wrong with this proposal.

DEFINES: Other Religious foods as any other food that is specifically sanctioned or blessed by a recognized religious organization as fit for eating.

Who cares? I could start a cult in my basement and wave a candle around a loaf of bread, it doesn't mean law must protect that loaf of bread.
There are specific guidelines set that make the difference between actual religion and a fake cult that praises bread for the sake of undermining the law. (Which in itself is outlawed)
NOTING that there is no restriction on the false advertisement of religious products in the WA, and there is great benefit for companies to label their products as religiously approved.

Whether or not something is religiously approved is irrelevant to the populous, it's food, and anyone can eat it.
False advertising of a religious food can be insulting to the gods or god they praise.
AND that there could easily be illegitimate religious blessings on foods.

Subjective. To Atheists, no religious blessing is legitimate, and law cannot have opinions, as this draft is just an overflow of religious opinion.
This law is not written for atheists, since they have no religious foods then their opinion on the advertisement of the said food is irrelevant, just like you.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED No company, tradesperson, or any other sort of merchant can sell food products advertised as kosher, halal, or otherwise religiously approved, across international borders, without the license of the WA. In order to protect the rights of those that have chosen to eat foods that are religiously fit.

[color=#FF0000]This restricts religious freedoms, which you have tried so hard to protect, by making everyone get a license to produce spiritually ok food. And again, do I need a license for the bread I waved a candle around with my basement cult? This is just unrealistic.
See second blue font. As for freedom, it does not impede religious freedom, it stops false advertisement of food, are you sure you understand what your writing about?
PROCESS DESCRIBED:
A. For an organization:
An organization that approves foods as religiously fit must apply for license, in which the WA will approve based on the following qualifications:
1. The organization reflects the beliefs of the targeted religion.
2. The organization is backed by major religious denominations or religious government.
3. The organization has a clearly recognizable and trademarked symbol
And pray tell, what WA member will volunteer for this awful job?
That is non of your concern, I would wager more than a few would do this happlily, possibly the author. Though this is cheeky nitpicking your up to at this point.
B. For an individual
An individual, independent of any licensed organization, which applies for a license to deem products religiously fit, must be backed by a major religious denomination or religious government.
So now you are discriminating against minor religious denominations?
See second blue font, also consider someone making a note on packaging of food stating the specific sect of certain beliefs it is made for.
All licensing is subject to the WA’s discretion.
The WA has the authority to confiscate all products labeled as religiously fit that are not approved by the WA.
Again, what unhappy soul does this?

See ^

This is just awful. It is a mess of contradictions, illegality, and downright foolishness. This has no chance of passing, or even making quorum. In fact, it would most likely get taken down by the moderators. Study WA legislation before you try drafting laws again, so you don't waste our time with this bureaucratic nonsense.

^Asshole 101 gentlemen, telling brand new writers that what they wrote is wrong, as if he is greater? Bigoted and hateful it is. All I see is a heavy left-wing opinion smacking down on a brand new writer. Because the new writer isn't leftwing. Good job everyone.

[Central Asian Republics]

DEFINES: Kosher as satisfying the requirements of Jewish law as fit for eating.
DEFINES: Halal as satisfying the requirements of Muslim law as fit for eating.

Illegal, "Halal" and "Kosher" are both real world terms. "Jewish" and "Muslim" are also real world terms. *Sarcastic Tone* I totally believe that you

read the rules and suggestions

.

[Central Asian Republics]

^Asshole 101 gentlemen, telling brand new writers that what they wrote is wrong, as if he is greater? Bigoted and hateful it is. All I see is a heavy left-wing opinion smacking down on a brand new writer. Because the new writer isn't leftwing. Good job everyone.

So what if he's new? The author of the draft clearly stated that he read the rules (Which he obviously didn't), the author of the draft also said:

I would enjoy your criticism and suggestions

So don't try and act superior to those that are doing what the author of the draft wants.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: Christ, let's leave off the guy a little, eh? He admitted it was an issue and then hasn't been back to post. It's dead, Jim.