War on white people?

[UNITED AMERICAN FEDERATI0N]

He never said poverty causes crime. (Regardless, even if it were true, it's not the only cause of crime. There are several reasons why the US has such high murder rates: higher population, lax gun laws, etc.)

Also, comparing Nepal and the United States isn't the best way to judge whether there's a significant correlation between poverty and crime. You'd be much better off comparing cities within the United States. Try New Orleans its bad down there.

[Mavorpen]

Try New Orleans its bad down there.

Well, yeah. I was born there and lived there for around 12 years.

[Mavorpen]

Also, comparing Nepal and the United States isn't the best way to judge whether there's a significant correlation between poverty and crime. You'd be much better off comparing cities within the United States.

Very true. (On that note: from the crime maps and whatnot I've seen, violence is usually much higher in poorer areas, especially in the South, which has the highest murder rates in the country--that said, correlation does not equal causation.)

That and in general, the most violent cities all have poverty rates above the average for cities. That does tell us that it probably contributes a significant amount.

[The Land of Truth]

Try New Orleans its bad down there.

Well, yeah. I was born there and lived there for around 12 years.

Well, that backfired spectacularly.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Try New Orleans its bad down there.

Well, yeah. I was born there and lived there for around 12 years.

What a delicious ironic moment.

[Neutraligon]

I think there are some who debate that factoid. If I remember correctly there are some who feel that simians are considered monkeys, and since we are in that group we are also monkeys.

I don't get this war on white thing, rights and equality aren't a zero sum game. Oh, 10000 post.

"A monkey is a primate of the Haplorrhini suborder and simian infraorder, either an Old World monkey or a New World monkey, but excluding apes and humans."

"Apes are a branch of Old World tailless anthropoid catarrhine primates native to Africa and Southeast Asia and distinguished by a wide degree of freedom at the shoulder joint indicating the influence of brachiation."

I don't see where there's a debate.

AS I said I have heard a few who include all simiiforms (I should have been more accurate), including hominoids under that term. To include both Old and New world monkeys under the moniker, Catarrhini has to be included, which in turn includes apes. The problem is the term monkey doesn't have a consistent usage across order. How can both old world monkeys and new world monkeys be monkeys while still excluding apes? Any way I don't want to threadjack so can we take this to tg?

[Blakk Metal]

He never said poverty causes crime. (Regardless, even if it were true, it's not the only cause of crime. There are several reasons why the US has such high murder rates: higher population, lax gun laws, etc.)

Also, comparing Nepal and the United States isn't the best way to judge whether there's a significant correlation between poverty and crime. You'd be much better off comparing cities within the United States.

How about states? The murder rate of West Virginia is lower than the murder rates of Connecticut and North Dakota despite being much poorer.

[UNITED AMERICAN FEDERATI0N]

Well, yeah. I was born there and lived there for around 12 years.

Well, that backfired spectacularly.

Yhea It did. I live only 50 miles from there tho.

[Kelinfort]

Also, comparing Nepal and the United States isn't the best way to judge whether there's a significant correlation between poverty and crime. You'd be much better off comparing cities within the United States.

How about states? The murder rate of West Virginia is lower than the murder rates of Connecticut and North Dakota despite being much poorer.

Yet, the poorest state, Mississippi, has a much higher murder rate.

It's not the sole cause, but it is significant.

[Mavorpen]

Also, comparing Nepal and the United States isn't the best way to judge whether there's a significant correlation between poverty and crime. You'd be much better off comparing cities within the United States.

How about states? The murder rate of West Virginia is lower than the murder rates of Connecticut and North Dakota despite being much poorer.

...And?

[The Land of Truth]

"A monkey is a primate of the Haplorrhini suborder and simian infraorder, either an Old World monkey or a New World monkey, but excluding apes and humans."

"Apes are a branch of Old World tailless anthropoid catarrhine primates native to Africa and Southeast Asia and distinguished by a wide degree of freedom at the shoulder joint indicating the influence of brachiation."

I don't see where there's a debate.

AS I said I have heard a few who include all simians, including hominoids under that term. To include both Old and New world monkeys under the moniker, Catarrhini has to be included, which in turn includes apes. The problem is the term monkey doesn't have a consistent usage across order. How can both old world monkeys and new world monkeys be monkeys while still excluding apes?

Ah. Frankly, I've usually heard it defined as explicitly excluding apes. I guess it makes sense in the context of separating apes from other primates (in that apes are radically different from other primates in many regards). That said, it seems like it makes an arbitrary distinction between apes and non-apes (i.e. why are non-apes all one big monolith?). Weird.

[The Land of Truth]

Also, comparing Nepal and the United States isn't the best way to judge whether there's a significant correlation between poverty and crime. You'd be much better off comparing cities within the United States.

How about states? The murder rate of West Virginia is lower than the murder rates of Connecticut and North Dakota despite being much poorer.

We're probably just too fat to even try...

[Snurgonia]

You presented basic facts in a biased light. The reason why so many Blacks are responsible for a disproportionate amount of crimes is due to poverty, pure and simple.

If poverty causes crime, why is the murder rate in Nepal lower than the US murder rate, despite the fact they are much poorer than the US?

Many, if not most people, would classify the people of Nepal as non-white. Does this mean that white people are the cause of crime in the US? No. There are many causes of crime, including poverty, great disparities in wealth, deliberate or accidental social stratification, and deliberate or accidental destruction of community and the idea of a social contract that involves everyone. Just for the sake of argument, I'll add in distrust of government, especially distrust of the legal system.

[Neutraligon]

AS I said I have heard a few who include all simians, including hominoids under that term. To include both Old and New world monkeys under the moniker, Catarrhini has to be included, which in turn includes apes. The problem is the term monkey doesn't have a consistent usage across order. How can both old world monkeys and new world monkeys be monkeys while still excluding apes?

Ah. Frankly, I've usually heard it defined as explicitly excluding apes. I guess it makes sense in the context of separating apes from other primates (in that apes are radically different from other primates in many regards). That said, it seems like it makes an arbitrary distinction between apes and non-apes (i.e. why are non-apes all one big monolith?). Weird.

Basically. The problem is with Linnaean taxonomy versus what is becoming accepted now (monophyletic hierarchy). Basically the idea is you can't grow out of your ancestors. SO for instance, since the ancestors of birds were dinosaurs, birds are still dinosaurs. Since the ancestor of humans was classified as an ape, Humans are still apes. Since the ancestor of apes could be classified as a simiiform (monkey) apes are still moneys. This can be used to explain why trying to find a half ape-hald human makes no sense, since humans are still apes.

[Quintium]

There's only one problem with this implicitly racist tripe of "stupid minorities can't make informed decisions, they just vote for their own interests!"

That's not what I have been saying, though. Compared to the general population, Hispanics are probably not that much less intelligent. However, they find themselves in such a position that their social and cultural ties to the host nation are not pronounced enough for them to favour the interests of the nation over the interests of their own group (Spanish-speaking, generally low-wage first and second generation immigrants from Mexico and Central America). But we'll see what happens once they become American, or once America becomes Hispanic - whichever happens first. My money's on a sudden and seemingly unexpected shift in values and political beliefs in which the Hispanics, who then will have more to lose, will side with whites against less productive minorities.

We understand the flow of money, and it's not coincidental given we come from countries with struggling economies right now.

Then why are those countries struggling? Are they not populated almost exclusively by Hispanics who, in your words, 'understand the flow of money' and 'understand that more taxation translated into services means less things we have to care about' (the latter being a very frightening idea which has stifled development in South America and many other places in the world for decades)?

[UNITED AMERICAN FEDERATI0N]

I know this is off topic but does any one a good site were I can watch the last samurai for free with out having to sign up.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

We understand the flow of money, and it's not coincidental given we come from countries with struggling economies right now.

Then why are those countries struggling? Are they not populated almost exclusively by Hispanics who, in your words, 'understand the flow of money' and 'understand that more taxation translated into services means less things we have to care about' (the latter being a very frightening idea which has stifled development in South America and many other places in the world for decades)?

Erm, because our governments are shit, there's rampant violence, and there's no advance in a society that ruthlessly manages to fuck everyone over for the sake of profits?

Although the countries are struggling those of us looking at those countries can go and say "well this is fucked up, the rich are richer and the poor are at their poorest". Latin America doesn't have the same protections people in Europe or the U.S. do. Whereas the poorest of the poor live in homeless shelters in the U.S. in Latin America the poorest of the poor live in the municipal dumpster because we're assholes at making money and there's no protections for the poor unlike in the U.S. and Europe.

Same reasons why I roll my eyes at libertarians, really.

[The Land of Truth]

Ah. Frankly, I've usually heard it defined as explicitly excluding apes. I guess it makes sense in the context of separating apes from other primates (in that apes are radically different from other primates in many regards). That said, it seems like it makes an arbitrary distinction between apes and non-apes (i.e. why are non-apes all one big monolith?). Weird.

Basically. The problem is with Linnaean taxonomy versus what is becoming accepted now (monophyletic hierarchy). Basically the idea is you can't grow out of your ancestors. SO for instance, since the ancestors of birds were dinosaurs, birds are still dinosaurs. Since the ancestor of humans was classified as an ape, Humans are still apes. Since the ancestor of apes could be classified as a simiiform (monkey) apes are still moneys. This can be used to explain why trying to find a half ape-hald human makes no sense, since humans are still apes.

*eyes cross* Okay then...

[Quintium]

You presented basic facts in a biased light. The reason why so many Blacks are responsible for a disproportionate amount of crimes is due to poverty, pure and simple. Being the poorest socio-economic group, this causes the rate to increase. The fact many in America have deluded themselves into thinking they have no prejudice, along with institutional racism does not help.

And I would take this for a self-evident truth, were it not for the fact:

1. That rural whites do not display the same rates of crime that urban blacks display;
2. That, in fact, Asians in Asia - who, per capita, are significantly less wealthy than American blacks - do not display the same rates of crime;
3. That the nature of many of the crimes committed disproportionately by blacks is not economic but violent or sexual;
4. That crimes of that nature also occur extremely often in Africa itself, more so than in nearly any other part of the world including some parts of the world currently embroiled in civil wars.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

You presented basic facts in a biased light. The reason why so many Blacks are responsible for a disproportionate amount of crimes is due to poverty, pure and simple. Being the poorest socio-economic group, this causes the rate to increase. The fact many in America have deluded themselves into thinking they have no prejudice, along with institutional racism does not help.

And I would take this for a self-evident truth, were it not for the fact:

1. That rural whites do not display the same rates of crime that urban blacks display;
2. That, in fact, Asians in Asia - who, per capita, are significantly less wealthy than American blacks - do not display the same rates of crime;
3. That the nature of many of the crimes committed disproportionately by blacks is not economic but violent or sexual;
4. That crimes of that nature also occur extremely often in Africa itself, more so than in nearly any other part of the world including some parts of the world currently embroiled in civil wars.

So what you're saying is that American black people are as corrupt as African people?

I am not sure why the fuck you're bringing up Africa to be honest to a discussion about the U.S.

[Quintium]

Erm, because our governments are shit, there's rampant violence, and there's no advance in a society that ruthlessly manages to fuck everyone over for the sake of profits?

Then why do you insist on placing so much trust in government? Mind you, it's something I'm familiar with, being from Europe. The Italians, the Greeks, the Spaniards, the Portuguese, the Cypriots and the Maltese are some of the most financially reckless populations in the world. Their governments are thoroughly corrupt, in the case of Greece more so than some African countries. They are robbed blind by people who are either in or aligned with the government, and yet they embrace and cheer the expansion of the government's already immense apparatus at every step.

Tell me - what in God's name makes you do that?

[Mavorpen]

That's not what I have been saying, though. Compared to the general population, Hispanics are probably not that much less intelligent.

Riiight. "Probably." No intentions of hiding that racism, huh?

However, they find themselves in such a position that their social and cultural ties to the host nation are not pronounced enough for them to favour the interests of the nation over the interests of their own group (Spanish-speaking, generally low-wage first and second generation immigrants from Mexico and Central America). But we'll see what happens once they become American, or once America becomes Hispanic - whichever happens first.

Again, this is unsubstantiated racist bullshit. People, ALL voters, vote for things that they believe both benefits the nation AND benefits themselves. There are, of course, variations in people who vote more often based off of their own interests, but that is in NO way mutually exclusive to voting with the interests of the nation.

My money's on a sudden and seemingly unexpected shift in values and political beliefs in which the Hispanics, who then will have more to lose, will side with whites against less productive minorities.

Please do bet on that, I would love to take your money. Since, you know, you're completely fucking wrong about them being more socially conservative. If anything, they're getting LESS socially conservative. You did see this, right?

Hispanics are not as socially conservative as you think. In fact, they're more socially liberal than the general population on certain issues.

Or are you ignoring it because it's inconvenient?

[Mavorpen]

Erm, because our governments are shit, there's rampant violence, and there's no advance in a society that ruthlessly manages to fuck everyone over for the sake of profits?

Then why do you insist on placing so much trust in government? Mind you, it's something I'm familiar with, being from Europe. The Italians, the Greeks, the Spaniards, the Portuguese, the Cypriots and the Maltese are some of the most financially reckless populations in the world. Their governments are thoroughly corrupt, in the case of Greece more so than some African countries. They are robbed blind by people who are either in or aligned with the government, and yet they embrace and cheer the expansion of the government's already immense apparatus at every step.

Tell me - what in God's name makes you do that?

Psst. Hey. The topic is not your nonsensical gibberish about "EBIL GOVERNMENT." Stop trying to derail the thread.

[The Land of Truth]

You presented basic facts in a biased light. The reason why so many Blacks are responsible for a disproportionate amount of crimes is due to poverty, pure and simple. Being the poorest socio-economic group, this causes the rate to increase. The fact many in America have deluded themselves into thinking they have no prejudice, along with institutional racism does not help.

And I would take this for a self-evident truth, were it not for the fact:

1. That rural whites do not display the same rates of crime that urban blacks display;
2. That, in fact, Asians in Asia - who, per capita, are significantly less wealthy than American blacks - do not display the same rates of crime;
3. That the nature of many of the crimes committed disproportionately by blacks is not economic but violent or sexual;
4. That crimes of that nature also occur extremely often in Africa itself, more so than in nearly any other part of the world including some parts of the world currently embroiled in civil wars.

1. Source?
2. You're comparing Asians in Asia to black people in America... Why? You are away that Asia and America are two different places, right? With different cultures, laws, ideologies, etc. So, why compare the two when there's no comparison to be made?
3. Source?
4. Oh shit, you mean the most poverty-ridden, unstable, in-need-of-help place on Earth has issues with crime? Damn, who'd a thunk it?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Erm, because our governments are shit, there's rampant violence, and there's no advance in a society that ruthlessly manages to fuck everyone over for the sake of profits?

Then why do you insist on placing so much trust in government? Mind you, it's something I'm familiar with, being from Europe. The Italians, the Greeks, the Spaniards, the Portuguese, the Cypriots and the Maltese are some of the most financially reckless populations in the world. Their governments are thoroughly corrupt, in the case of Greece more so than some African countries. They are robbed blind by people who are either in or aligned with the government, and yet they embrace and cheer the expansion of the government's already immense apparatus at every step.

Tell me - what in God's name makes you do that?

Because while I think the government is shit that doesn't mean I can just go ahead and say "fuck the government! I want to be free of my shackles!". Although I think the U.S. government isn't perfect, I'm not someone who is going to go for anarchy, but rather develop an educated opinion about the issues our government faces and come with approaches that I know perhaps won't be listened to anyways, but that it's better than sitting here and bitch and moan about our government without really thinking about solutions.

If people cannot trust in their own governments, that they will protect their rights under the law or at least they themselves have a voice, then tell me what should people be turning towards? Each other? We have proven in America we're incapable of even looking at each other equally without government intervention.