Almajoya wrote:
Only half-black. Try again.
I suppose we could, however, Youll find yourself hard pressed to find someone who is not in the United States....
Black, White, or otherwise...
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by Maurepas » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:52 pm
Almajoya wrote:
Only half-black. Try again.
by Katganistan » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:52 pm
Tiesabre wrote:Also, this should be brought up too. People of Mixed descent, I'll stick with black-white mixed descent since it's more obvious.
Even being black myself, I never know what's the right way to refer to someone of mixed descent. Saying "Oh he's mixed." Sounds extremely offensive to me, almost like calling someone a mutt, but I'm not mixed so I really wouldn't know.
And another issue that presents itself is that many white people don't accept a mixed person as white and many black people don't consider a mixed person black. Course you could argue some mixed people appear very white, and claim white, and a white people generally don't notice but black people sometimes can figure them out. And I reason I believe there's such an issue there is because of the rather hostile relationship white people and black people share.
by Der Teutoniker » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:52 pm
The Cat-Tribe wrote:Der Teutoniker wrote:The Cat-Tribe wrote:snip
So, basically, you are ignoring mine, and Bluth's arguments, and debating similar, but different points, and pretending you are arguing our points. Fine.
Though, before you use it incorrectly again, you may want to look up the word "inherent" before you use it incorrectly as per it's current usage, rather than it's inherent meaning.
Nice try.
Does "inherent" have a meaning or not?
If not, end of conversation. No words have meaning. We can't communicate.
If so, why doesn't "nigger"?
If on the third hand, you are claiming you and Bluth are merely making a distinction a word's definition and its "inherent" meaning because definitions can change, I have three questions: (1) how is that fucking relevant?; (2) isn't that point a little petty and niggling?; and (3) how do you square that minor point with Bluth's "the meaning is in the intent of the user" argument?
South Lorenya wrote:occasionally we get someone who has a rap sheet longer than Jormungandr
Austin Setzer wrote:We found a couple of ancient documents, turned them into the bible, and now its the symbol of christianity.
ARM Forces wrote:Strep-throat is an infection in the throat, caused by eating too much refined sugar! Rubbing more sugar directly on it is the worst thing you can possibly do.
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Communism and anarchy; same unachievable end, different impractical means.
by The Cat-Tribe » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:54 pm
Bluth Corporation wrote:The Cat-Tribe wrote:
2. If words have no inherent meanings, again, how do we know what they mean?
Through mutual agreement--not through anything inherent to the word itself. If our understanding of the meaning attached to the word differs, then we are simply unable to communicate effectively.
The message that is sent by a speaker is the substance he intended.
by Lunatic Goofballs » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:55 pm
Katganistan wrote:Tiesabre wrote:Also, this should be brought up too. People of Mixed descent, I'll stick with black-white mixed descent since it's more obvious.
Even being black myself, I never know what's the right way to refer to someone of mixed descent. Saying "Oh he's mixed." Sounds extremely offensive to me, almost like calling someone a mutt, but I'm not mixed so I really wouldn't know.
And another issue that presents itself is that many white people don't accept a mixed person as white and many black people don't consider a mixed person black. Course you could argue some mixed people appear very white, and claim white, and a white people generally don't notice but black people sometimes can figure them out. And I reason I believe there's such an issue there is because of the rather hostile relationship white people and black people share.
I'm a mutt and proud of it. American first, but my heritage is from mainland Italy, Sicily, and Puerto Rico. In my extended family we've got people of German and English extraction, Filipinos, Maltese... we're most shades from coffee to cream.
by The Cat-Tribe » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:55 pm
Der Teutoniker wrote:The Cat-Tribe wrote:Der Teutoniker wrote:
So, basically, you are ignoring mine, and Bluth's arguments, and debating similar, but different points, and pretending you are arguing our points. Fine.
Though, before you use it incorrectly again, you may want to look up the word "inherent" before you use it incorrectly as per it's current usage, rather than it's inherent meaning.
Nice try.
Does "inherent" have a meaning or not?
If not, end of conversation. No words have meaning. We can't communicate.
If so, why doesn't "nigger"?
If on the third hand, you are claiming you and Bluth are merely making a distinction [between] a word's definition and its "inherent" meaning because definitions can change, I have three questions: (1) how is that fucking relevant?; (2) isn't that point a little petty and niggling?; and (3) how do you square that minor point with Bluth's "the meaning is in the intent of the user" argument?
Again, the bait & switch you pulled with Bluth.
I never said words don't have meaning. I never said any such thing. I said words don't have inherent meaning. This is because meanings can change. But you're probably right, no word ever means anything different than it ever has.
by Hairless Kitten II » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:56 pm
Maurepas wrote:The Cat-Tribe wrote:To paraphrase D.L. Hughley: blacks would be happy to trade -- you can call them nigger or whatever you want and they get to run the world.
I hate myself for this....But, I think we've met our end of the bargain:
by Almajoya » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:57 pm
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Katganistan wrote:Tiesabre wrote:Also, this should be brought up too. People of Mixed descent, I'll stick with black-white mixed descent since it's more obvious.
Even being black myself, I never know what's the right way to refer to someone of mixed descent. Saying "Oh he's mixed." Sounds extremely offensive to me, almost like calling someone a mutt, but I'm not mixed so I really wouldn't know.
And another issue that presents itself is that many white people don't accept a mixed person as white and many black people don't consider a mixed person black. Course you could argue some mixed people appear very white, and claim white, and a white people generally don't notice but black people sometimes can figure them out. And I reason I believe there's such an issue there is because of the rather hostile relationship white people and black people share.
I'm a mutt and proud of it. American first, but my heritage is from mainland Italy, Sicily, and Puerto Rico. In my extended family we've got people of German and English extraction, Filipinos, Maltese... we're most shades from coffee to cream.
Same here. We should start a Mutt Supremacy Movement. *nod*
by The Cat-Tribe » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:57 pm
Hairless Kitten II wrote:Maurepas wrote:The Cat-Tribe wrote:To paraphrase D.L. Hughley: blacks would be happy to trade -- you can call them nigger or whatever you want and they get to run the world.
I hate myself for this....But, I think we've met our end of the bargain:
Who's that man?
by Maurepas » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:58 pm
Hairless Kitten II wrote:Who's that man?
by Bluth Corporation » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:00 pm
The Cat-Tribe wrote:
Actually, your two statements contradict each other. The message intended by the speaker is the one he intends to send. The message sent by the speaker depends, based on your own admission, on mutual agreement.
Regardless, "nigger" by general agreement is a racist prejorative. That is what it means to the average user, the dictionary ... almost everyone with the possible exception of theoretically ignorant.
by Katganistan » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:01 pm
Haraq wrote:Its not racist and it should be used to refer to recent immigrants to the country in question. A couple of generations back.
Also 'white americans' founded the country and made up the vast majority of the population up to the 1930's so should be considered regular americans.
by Hairless Kitten II » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:01 pm
Maurepas wrote:Hairless Kitten II wrote:Who's that man?
President Barack Obama, also known as, "The Leader of the Free World"
by Maurepas » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:02 pm
The Cat-Tribe wrote:
Some nigger.
by Maurepas » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:02 pm
Hairless Kitten II wrote:Maurepas wrote:Hairless Kitten II wrote:Who's that man?
President Barack Obama, also known as, "The Leader of the Free World"
There's a sex bar around the corner that's called 'The Free World', so he's the CEO of that joint?
by The Cat-Tribe » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:05 pm
Bluth Corporation wrote:The Cat-Tribe wrote:
Actually, your two statements contradict each other. The message intended by the speaker is the one he intends to send. The message sent by the speaker depends, based on your own admission, on mutual agreement.
And if there's no mutual agreement, then there is no communication, because the listener is interpreting a message other than the one that was actually sent.Regardless, "nigger" by general agreement is a racist prejorative. That is what it means to the average user, the dictionary ... almost everyone with the possible exception of theoretically ignorant.
And when those people use the word "nigger," there is no racist meaning.
by Hairless Kitten II » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:08 pm
by Katganistan » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:10 pm
Ascelonia wrote:There are caucasian African Americans....
by The Cat-Tribe » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:11 pm
Hairless Kitten II wrote:A black friend of me sometimes shouts to other black ones, which he doesn't know, 'nigger!'.
At first, they turn around and look angry, when they see that a black one shouted the word they start laughing.
Weird people
by The Cat-Tribe » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:13 pm
Katganistan wrote:Ascelonia wrote:There are caucasian African Americans....
Like Charlize Theron.
by Maurepas » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:17 pm
The Cat-Tribe wrote:Katganistan wrote:Ascelonia wrote:There are caucasian African Americans....
Like Charlize Theron.
Nice catch. I was going to jump on you for Cameron Diaz.
Of course, "caucasian" isn't much more useful that white, black, or African-American.
What do people think they are defining with these terms? Not any scientific race. Not skin color. Not necessarily place of birth.
by Der Teutoniker » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:20 pm
The Cat-Tribe wrote:how do you square that minor point with Bluth's "the meaning is in the intent of the user" argument?
To which I will add the following: do you admit the "meaning" of nigger is a racist prejorative?
South Lorenya wrote:occasionally we get someone who has a rap sheet longer than Jormungandr
Austin Setzer wrote:We found a couple of ancient documents, turned them into the bible, and now its the symbol of christianity.
ARM Forces wrote:Strep-throat is an infection in the throat, caused by eating too much refined sugar! Rubbing more sugar directly on it is the worst thing you can possibly do.
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Communism and anarchy; same unachievable end, different impractical means.
by Der Teutoniker » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:23 pm
The Cat-Tribe wrote:Of course, "caucasian" isn't much more useful that white, black, or African-American.
What do people think they are defining with these terms? Not any scientific race. Not skin color. Not necessarily place of birth.
South Lorenya wrote:occasionally we get someone who has a rap sheet longer than Jormungandr
Austin Setzer wrote:We found a couple of ancient documents, turned them into the bible, and now its the symbol of christianity.
ARM Forces wrote:Strep-throat is an infection in the throat, caused by eating too much refined sugar! Rubbing more sugar directly on it is the worst thing you can possibly do.
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Communism and anarchy; same unachievable end, different impractical means.
by The Cat-Tribe » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:31 pm
Der Teutoniker wrote:The Cat-Tribe wrote:how do you square that minor point with Bluth's "the meaning is in the intent of the user" argument?
To which I will add the following: do you admit the "meaning" of nigger is a racist prejorative?
Well, I'll try to clear it up, but let's wait and see you deliberately misconstrue my argument again to save face.
Meaning is entirely based on intent. English wouldn't exist as a language without words changing meaning. This happens for a variety of reasons, but the point is that the intended meaning changes. If words have inherent meaning, as you seem to somehow believe, then no words would ever change meaning, the meaning would be inherent. There would only be one language, because all words would have this phatnom inherent mening. My argument is, I believe, identical to Bluth's, so far as I am aware.
That is one meaning of the word "nigger" certainly. However, the fact that there are other meanings/usages proves that words do not have inherent meaning, and that an arbitrary vocal assignment for the point of conversation has no set meaning, good or bad.
Generally, of course the word "nigger" is seen as a racist pejortive, but no one has argued that (if you can contradict that, please do). However, this is still far from anything close to "inherent", or even universal, again, some black people call each other "niggers" in a non-pejorative sense, which by itself totally, and entirely defeats any point you tried, to make, however, you are free to ignore that evidence against you as you have been doing.
by Der Teutoniker » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:45 pm
The Cat-Tribe wrote:You've correctly seized on my mistaken use of the word "inherent" when all I meant to convey was the idea that words do have meanings separate from the subjective intent of the user. Mea culpa.
South Lorenya wrote:occasionally we get someone who has a rap sheet longer than Jormungandr
Austin Setzer wrote:We found a couple of ancient documents, turned them into the bible, and now its the symbol of christianity.
ARM Forces wrote:Strep-throat is an infection in the throat, caused by eating too much refined sugar! Rubbing more sugar directly on it is the worst thing you can possibly do.
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Communism and anarchy; same unachievable end, different impractical means.
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