Proposed Thread [MODS ONLY]

[Swith Witherward]

I've been asked to put forth a request for permission to open a thread in which mental illness survival can be discussed. I'm doing so as a member of NS and not as a Mentor. I was asked to put this proposal forward because (for whatever reason) people think I'm calm and polite.

Pertaining to this discussion:

As Trans noted, we've been discussing the "safe space" concept for some time, and the Body Thread's arrival prompted a further look. The result of those discussions is this: there is now one, and one only, mod-authorised Safe Space, the one on rape.

Removing that protection from the Body thread is no reflection on Shellby, who simply did what she did with the first Safe Space thread: open with a thoughtful introductory post. It's to her credit and to NSG's that the original thread has since developed into something truly remarkable on this site.

It's a community effort that wouldn't have worked if the players weren't committed to it. It is for survivors of a crime, and it's the bond among posters in the thread, not mod oversight, that keeps it safe. You're the ones who guard against players who want to argue or victim-blame, by (ahem!) politely redirecting them to threads where such debates can occur. Your attitudes have kept that thread relatively clear of trouble for the rape survivors who post in it. We support you by moving offending posters along with modly persuasions. The thread's protected against debate. We don't give that protection to any other thread, and we couldn't do it effectively without the early-warning system that players maintain.

But the way people are "shamed" for their personal attributes is not a recognised crime, for all that there are survivors. The Body thread and similar discussions concern community attitudes that people are trying to alter. Debate is vital to that. Gay marriage wouldn't even be on the cards if individual gays hadn't got out there and argued their case. The net is not safe, though NS tries to provide a chance to hone your arguments in a place where everyone's obliged to moderate their behaviour.

From the mods' perspective, preserving the Body thread as another Safe Space would run counter to what it can achieve, and what this site is actually for -- reasoned argument and debate. Because of the nature of the site, it's unlikely mods will approve other safe space threads. Nor will we allow players to declare any thread a safe space: the term could be misused to suppress viewpoints they disagree with.

So, finally, in answer to NFP's query: the rules that govern the Body Thread are now the same that govern the rest of NSG. The Safe Space designation does not apply to it.

Just wondering, but would this prohibition against new Safe Spaces also affect another thread covering a similarly sensitive topic (suicide), and with similar goals?

Just wondering, but would this prohibition against new Safe Spaces also affect another thread covering a similarly sensitive topic (suicide), and with similar goals?

The ruling applies to this particular topic. If you want to explore a sensitive topic such as suicide but want to create a safe space, your best option is to seek permission beforehand. The purpose of the ruling is to avoid reducing the potency of "safe space". Nevertheless, you could make a thread without the "safe space" designation and the same rules would always apply -- no trolling, no flaming (i.e.: don't be a jerk).

We (collective group of various NSG participants from II, NSG, F7 and P2TM) wish to start a thread which delves into depression/mental illness survival. We are not requesting designation as a "safe space".

We believe that it will take a community effort that participants would need to commit to. It would for survivors who have endured various mental illnesses and found their way to treatment/recovery; the bond among posters in the thread, not mod oversight, will contribute to what keeps it safe. We would be the ones who guard against players who want to argue or victim-blame, by (ahem!) politely redirecting them to threads where such debates can occur. Our attitudes will be what keeps that thread relatively clear of trouble for suicide survivors, those with mental illness, those recovering from depression, etc who post in it. We ask that Moderation support us by moving offending posters along with offering their modly persuasions. We fully understand that the thread won't be protected against debate.

We wish to explore a sensitive topic such as suicide/mental illness/depression and, although we don't want to create a "safe space", in light of the recent lock to a depression thread, we are exercising our best option by seeking permission beforehand. We don't wish to reduce the potency of "safe space". We wish to make a thread without the "safe space" designation and accept that the same rules would always apply -- no trolling, no flaming (i.e.: don't be a jerk).

We understand that people can be cruel or post unacceptable things. We're survivors. We've seen it all. Many of us have faced death and lived... words on a screen are insignificant and empty in comparison. We are simply looking for a place where we, a combined community of survivors, can relate and share our struggles with and victories over mental illness.

Proposed OP:

Come one, come all, to a little section of NS for those of us who'd like to take a moment from the endless debating, the intricate RPing, and the chatting to discuss something a little more personal. Yes, folks, I am talking about our emotional well-being. Depression, anxiety, PTSD, you name it. What I am offering is a place for you to share your survival stories and to talk with others who have survived similar experiences. It is through experience that we learn how best to heal ourselves, and learning from the experiences of others is surely beneficial to all involved. To get discussion rolling, let us start with some questions:

What do you suffer from?
For how long have you suffered?
What are your coping mechanisms?
Do you take medication?
If so, what kind, and how has it impacted you? Would you recommend it?

Please be aware that this is not a Moderation-designated "Safe Space" however it is a place for people to come together as a community. You are more than welcome to open up a thread elsewhere if you wish to debate "Mental Illness isn't real" or "Just stop being sad". While humour is lovely, we request that those of you who do not care for or have negative feelings towards those who are mentally ill to please avoid posting whatsoever. You're not contributing. And no, telling people to drink isn't funny nor intelligent. We've seen it all; we'll simply ignore you. Trolling, mocking, insulting and the rest of the "no-nos" which pertain to other threads also pertain to this one. We do welcome intelligent discussion, however.

This space is not a suicide prevention space nor is it to be used as a hotline. This thread is not "manned" by trained or accredited mental health professionals.
If you are feeling suicidal, please click here or call 1-800-273-TALK (8255); you’ll be connected to a skilled, trained counselor at a crisis center in your area, anytime 24/7.
If you are outside the United States, this link will take you to your country's established hotlines.

I'll add that Reppy makes good sense in the responses given elsewhere in Moderation: "Airing it on NSG was not going to magically cause someone to get raped. In contrast, things said on a forum thread discussing depression and/or suicidal thoughts are talking about something that has not and may not happen; but could be very easily pushed into happening by some jackass troll posting to the effect of "Jump off a bridge already!" or similar nasty garbage. That puts liability on the site, and we can not and will not accept that risk."

I personally agree. However, in the context as it's phrased above, would a "survival thread" be acceptable or, if worded more tightly, would a thread of this nature be allowed? If not, I completely understand. I'll stand by the Modly decision 100%. I'm simply trying to mend some scrapes and bruised feelings shared by some of the "depression thread upset" participants.

Thanks for listening to the concerns and proposal. I really do appreciate it. There's no rush to make a decision. I'm also asking that this thread be locked to prevent a swarm of replies from non-Mods (although that prevents me from clarifying on any questions you might have.)

I'll ask that people please do NOT chime in on this discussion. Period. It's between Miss Swith, the small group of people who contacted her via email, and Moderation itself. If you are not part of that small group, kindly refrain from posting here so that we don't overwhelm the Mod team or contribute things which are unnecessary due to them being mentioned in the other three (do we have three now?) threads started in Moderation. Thank you.

edit: typos fixed.

[Reploid Productions]

While I really do appreciate the sentiments, I'm still afraid that it leaves the site open to risks we are just not equipped for. If words on a screen were truly so meaningless and insignificant, there wouldn't be well-documented instances of harassment online driving people to kill themeselves. Coupled with the fact that depression is seldom a solitary event, but rather an ongoing problem requiring long-term treatment, even survivors are more likely to have recurring problems, which spins such a thread right back around into the issue of our staff just flat-out not having the skills or guaranteed timezone coverage to properly handle it. Sadly, the disclaimers and such in the proposed thread wouldn't lift our potential liability should something go pear-shaped; should someone active in such a thread attempt (or $deity forbid, successfully commit) suicide possibly exacerbated by behavior of people here, that opens the site up to potential lawsuits; and regardless of whether they would be justified or not, it's simply a risk we are unwilling to take. Especially not when there are sites and support groups specifically run by people with the training, knowledge, and skills to properly address the subject.

Probably not the answer you're hoping for, but there it is. =/


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Admin
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Swith Witherward]

It's a sound answer and pretty much what I expected given the legal ramifications associated with things like this.

Thanks for going the extra mile to clarify. I appreciate that. I'm hoping it puts questions and concerns to bed.