Orson Scott Card's conspiracy theory

[Timna]

"Scott-Card is a tossrag whose books aren't even that good shocker".

[Surfistan]

I wish I could find the link, but Card wrote up a long essay defending why the Book of Mormon is clearly legit. It was honestly one of the most remarkable things I've ever read, because it was like watching cognitive dissonance emerge in real time. (Like, seriously, one of his arguments was that we should believe the Book of Mormon is real BECAUSE Joseph Smith did such a shitty job of aping Biblical language.)

One of the reasons I enjoy Orson Scott Card is the fact that he is a bigot and a generally disgusting human individual. I find it really interesting (and useful) to be reminded that bright, imaginative, interesting people are often also jerks.

GRRM has pretty decent views on politics, maybe he supports Obama a bit too much but still, pretty decent.

[AiliailiA]

Does this affect your opinion of him as an author?

Not much. He's pretty crap anyway

[Cameroi]

i haven't met him. he writes good i think.

that a person supports one possition on one thing, should come as no surprise that the same person might support a completely different possition on something else.

people are like that.

really.

honestly they are. for some odd reason people seem to like to amature psychoanalize authors. this is almost as silly as actors on the bases of the roles they get to get paid to perform.

writers write stories, and while stories have the potential to be polemic, in today's commercial oriented world, this is seldom their main focus nor reason they are written.

i really seriously do not believe his possitions in real life, if they can even be guessed from an op ed piece, which with few exceptions about anyone is dubious anyway, bear any relation to the readability or interest of his fictional works, nor upon his educational works on how to write them.

need i mention all the assumptions people made about hienline?

[Bottle]

Card is a loony, but Ender's Game is still one of my favorite books.

I enjoyed it, too. Then it became Card's cash cow and I lost interest.

Yeah, Ender's Game is a good book, IMO, just...not that good, for fuck's sake. Ender's Shadow was pretty good, too. The other sequels are abysmal.

I'll say this much, I also found his Lost Boys novel interesting, because it depicts Mormon family life. That's not the point of the book (the actual plot is weird and annoying), but as long as you ignore the plot and use it as a chance to learn about what it like to live as a modern Mormon, it's kind of neat.

Saints, his "historical fiction" about the early days of the Church, is depressing as fuck, because you can tell that he thinks he's weaving a beautiful and uplifting story, but it's really just a plodding and miserable account of the emotional dysfunction that leads some people to buy into a con.

[Purpelia]

Saints, his "historical fiction" about the early days of the Church, is depressing as fuck, because you can tell that he thinks he's weaving a beautiful and uplifting story, but it's really just a plodding and miserable account of the emotional dysfunction that leads some people to buy into a con.

So the story of religion than?

[Cannot think of a name]

Obama will claim we need a national police force in order to fight terrorism and crime.

Uh, isn't he about a decade late on that and off by one president? Isn't that what the Homeland Security thing is, set up by Bush?

Pretty much, though I do know a number of people who would have been interested in watching the movie, but are instead intent on pirating it, BECAUSE of OSC.

See, I never saw the point of that. If you hate the name so much that you won't buy the product... at least have the courage of your convictions. If you actually want to see the movie, at least pay the guy his due on that one issue.

Not to mention the thousands of artisans and laborers who make their living working long hours making these things come to life, it's not like a rich studio head magics this shit into existence. It's made off the backs of working class people who pay their rent with this shit.

[Wikkiwallana]

Remember how George Wallace got around Alabama's ban on governors serving two terms in a row? He ran his wife for the office. Everyone knew Wallace would actually be pulling the strings, even though they denied it.

Michelle Obama will be Obama's designated "successor," and any Democrat who seriously opposes her will be destroyed in the media the way everyone who contested Obama's run for the Democratic nomination in 2008 was destroyed.
[...]
By the time Michelle has served her two terms, the Constitution will have been amended to allow Presidents to run for reelection forever. Obama will win by 98 percent every time. That's how it works in Nigeria and Zimbabwe; that's how it worked in Hitler's Germany.

I heard much the same things from conspiracists regarding the Clintons many years ago. It would be nice if we could get these people to recycle physical garbage instead.

[Bottle]

See, I never saw the point of that. If you hate the name so much that you won't buy the product... at least have the courage of your convictions. If you actually want to see the movie, at least pay the guy his due on that one issue.

Not to mention the thousands of artisans and laborers who make their living working long hours making these things come to life, it's not like a rich studio head magics this shit into existence. It's made off the backs of working class people who pay their rent with this shit.

You think the Assistant Gaffer gets a share of the box office? If only!

The people who actually made Ender's game, those actual working class people, don't get paid differently if the movie makes more money. They were already paid before the movie hit theaters.

[Hot Skitty on Wailord Action]

Obama will claim we need a national police force in order to fight terrorism and crime.

Uh, isn't he about a decade late on that and off by one president? Isn't that what the Homeland Security thing is, set up by Bush?

I'd say so. Obama seems to be much more of the privacy-invading execute-without-due-process type.

[Wikkiwallana]

I couldn't tell you if he did or not, because I find it mostly irrevalent. However, themes of racism and the like are quite common throughout his work, but hidden by turning them into monsters and fantasy.

And actual racism. Really though, he didn't actually keep it to himself, he just used it less overtly in his works. I got a collection of his writings in an amateur press magazine for free. It was... enlightening. He refers to black people as "being unable to cross the threshold from apedom into humanity." He opposes co-ed schools because it might decrease the manliness of the boys. He vehemently opposes Irish independence, calling its supporters criminals who should be deported from the US. He was also really racist against Germans, probably because they fought against Britain in WWI.

He did come to his senses late in his life, though, which is kinda nice.

[Conserative Morality]

He's a remarkably good author with remarkably bad views, like many of them.

We just know and hate this guy moreso because he isn't dead yet.

HP Lovecraft was a hell of a racist, even for his time, but I read his stuff.

Yeah, but Lovecraft was:

A. Probably the best horror author of any generation

AND

B. Possessing ideas that were so crazy that he crossed the threshold from 'horrifying' to 'fascinating'

[Shaggai]

And actual racism. Really though, he didn't actually keep it to himself, he just used it less overtly in his works. I got a collection of his writings in an amateur press magazine for free. It was... enlightening. He refers to black people as "being unable to cross the threshold from apedom into humanity." He opposes co-ed schools because it might decrease the manliness of the boys. He vehemently opposes Irish independence, calling its supporters criminals who should be deported from the US. He was also really racist against Germans, probably because they fought against Britain in WWI.

He did come to his senses late in his life, though, which is kinda nice.

Yeah. Realized he was stuck in the past in a lot of ways and stopped trying to get back there. I wish Card would do that, but oh well.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

He did come to his senses late in his life, though, which is kinda nice.

Yeah. Realized he was stuck in the past in a lot of ways and stopped trying to get back there. I wish Card would do that, but oh well.

If I recall, he released a statement admitting he lost the issue of gay marriage, but still disapproves.

[Ashmoria]

Obama will claim we need a national police force in order to fight terrorism and crime.

Uh, isn't he about a decade late on that and off by one president? Isn't that what the Homeland Security thing is, set up by Bush?

that's why its so depressing to see someone whose work you admire (ive never read anything by him) have such extremely stupid theories.

Obama cant get a bill passed to take care of the crumbling bridges around the country. now im supposed to believe he is going to try to get a national police force made up of out-of work ghetto dwellers? in what alternate reality?

[Shaggai]

He's a remarkably good author with remarkably bad views, like many of them.

We just know and hate this guy moreso because he isn't dead yet.

HP Lovecraft was a hell of a racist, even for his time, but I read his stuff.

Yeah, but Lovecraft was:

A. Probably the best horror author of any generation

AND

B. Possessing ideas that were so crazy that he crossed the threshold from 'horrifying' to 'fascinating'

He wasn't "the best horror auther OF ALL TIME", though he's definitely top five. The main thing is that he invented and codified cosmic horror. I've read stories in his vein that are better than his, but he was so consitently good that overall he surpasses most. His ideas were the main thing. Although he was incredibly good with purple prose, it was still purple. Better than most less florid writers, true, but if he had toned it down a bit on some of his stories they would be better. That's mainly the area where I've seen others surpass him.

But the ideas... insanely awesome. Pun intended.

[Shaggai]

Yeah. Realized he was stuck in the past in a lot of ways and stopped trying to get back there. I wish Card would do that, but oh well.

If I recall, he released a statement admitting he lost the issue of gay marriage, but still disapproves.

But HPL did it so much better. He realized he was completely living in the past and actually stopped doing so. Take Mountains of Madness. No racism, scientists acting scientific (as opposed to the vaguely anti-science position expressed in certain other stories, although that may be an affectation because of the nature of those stories), a sort of anti-racist bit maybe, and a description of the nature of a very advanced society.

If Card would start advocating LGBT rights, and maybe become progressive, then I would approve of him.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

It's amazing that this guy went from writing books which cast a group of people so environmentally aware that they lived naked in the desert and didn't even drink water as the ideal way of living to...this.

Did anybody else read Empire? It was basically the article in the OP, but in book form.

[The Misotheist Reich]

Knowing Card's opinion on gay marriage, his contribution to Proposition 8 and previous position on the board of NOM, it should not be surprising that he is conservative and doesn't much like Obama.

The column he wrote a few months ago (discussed on Slate yesterday) goes quite a bit beyond that, veering into full-out conspiracy theory and at times thinly veiled racism. He carefully couched this as a "silly thought experiment" and appended "just kidding".

A few excerpts:

Obama will claim we need a national police force in order to fight terrorism and crime. The Boston bombing is a useful start, especially when combined with random shootings by crazy people.

Where will he get his "national police"? The NaPo will be recruited from "young out-of-work urban men" and it will be hailed as a cure for the economic malaise of the inner cities.

In other words, Obama will put a thin veneer of training and military structure on urban gangs, and send them out to channel their violence against Obama's enemies.

Instead of doing drive-by shootings in their own neighborhoods, these young thugs will do beatings and murders of people "trying to escape" -- people who all seem to be leaders and members of groups that oppose Obama.

Classy. He managed to avoid the N-word.

Remember how George Wallace got around Alabama's ban on governors serving two terms in a row? He ran his wife for the office. Everyone knew Wallace would actually be pulling the strings, even though they denied it.

Michelle Obama will be Obama's designated "successor," and any Democrat who seriously opposes her will be destroyed in the media the way everyone who contested Obama's run for the Democratic nomination in 2008 was destroyed.
[...]
By the time Michelle has served her two terms, the Constitution will have been amended to allow Presidents to run for reelection forever. Obama will win by 98 percent every time. That's how it works in Nigeria and Zimbabwe; that's how it worked in Hitler's Germany.

Okay then.

--

Does this affect your opinion of him as an author? For me, the homophobia was enough to decide not to spend any further money on his books or films, but didn't cause me to disavow him as a good writer of science-fiction; this bit is making me re-evaluate my stance. Can you really draw such a clear line between someone's work and their ideology? (Asking the conservatives and moderate conservatives too - I'm aware there's a long way between simply opposing gay marriage and, well, this.)

I am at a loss for words... I have never seen such idiotic randist ignorance. This Card man is absolutley out of his mind.

[The Corparation]

Orson Scot Cars backass views on gays and this are one of the main reasons I am extremely hesitant to buy a new copy of Ender's Game because I don't want to give the bigoted fool my money no matter how good a writer he is.

[Conserative Morality]

I... I just read the full column. How can one man be so monumentally idiotic?

On foreign policy, Obama is already the dumbest president in American history, and there's so much competition for that title. Only the fact that Al Gore, John Kerry, and Joe Biden were never president leaves him in sole possession of the crown.

But that brings me to a little thought experiment that seized my imagination a few weeks ago and won't go away.

Obama is, by character and preference, a dictator. He hates the very idea of compromise; he demonizes his critics and despises even his own toadies in the liberal press. He circumvented Congress as soon as he got into office by appointing "czars" who didn't need Senate approval. His own party hasn't passed a budget ever in the Senate.

[The balkens]

I... I just read the full column. How can one man be so monumentally idiotic?

On foreign policy, Obama is already the dumbest president in American history, and there's so much competition for that title. Only the fact that Al Gore, John Kerry, and Joe Biden were never president leaves him in sole possession of the crown.

But that brings me to a little thought experiment that seized my imagination a few weeks ago and won't go away.

Obama is, by character and preference, a dictator. He hates the very idea of compromise; he demonizes his critics and despises even his own toadies in the liberal press. He circumvented Congress as soon as he got into office by appointing "czars" who didn't need Senate approval. His own party hasn't passed a budget ever in the Senate.

What the actual fuck is this?!

[The Corparation]

I... I just read the full column. How can one man be so monumentally idiotic?

What the actual fuck is this?!

Intellectual degradation brought about when an Author nears the end of the career and proceeds to become increasingly politicized and gains crazier and crazier views towards the end. I propose we term this new condition "Card's Disorder" In memory of the soon to be completely insane Author.

[The balkens]

What the actual fuck is this?!

Intellectual degradation brought about when an Author nears the end of the career and proceeds to become increasingly politicized and gains crazier and crazier views towards the end. I propose we term this new condition "Card's Disorder" In memory of the soon to be completely insane Author.

Seconded.

[Enadail]

What the actual fuck is this?!

Intellectual degradation brought about when an Author nears the end of the career and proceeds to become increasingly politicized and gains crazier and crazier views towards the end. I propose we term this new condition "Card's Disorder" In memory of the soon to be completely insane Author.

Isn't one of the signs of dementia the inability to distinguish between reality and imaginary worlds? Given his writing career, he must have a number of those in his head.