Russia - Gay Rights - Sochi Olympics Megathread

[The Huskar Social Union]

You didn't explain anything. You only went on accusing me of trolling.

That's exactly what you did.

Kryozerkia has asked us to not respond to him anymore.

[Gravlen]

I would like to remind people that these groups are vigilantes, not backed by the Russian government.

Which begs the question: What are the Russian government and law enforcement doing to stop it and to protect the gay teens?

[Neo Rome Republic]

That's exactly what you did.

Kryozerkia has asked us to not respond to him anymore.

Okay, fine. I won't.

[Oneracon]

Especially given that so much as saying that gay people are able to be happy together is "homosexual propaganda" and illegal.

And that is sadly why I don't think Russia goes do something about this.

Of course not, "teh gheys" are all too convenient of a target for Putin to distract his populace with so they don't know how badly everything else is going in the country.

[Cosmicus]

Yes, you certainly do, and so do I. I have every right to explain why I think your reasoning is faulty.

You didn't explain anything. You only went on accusing me of trolling.

Your failure to explain anything is self-evident. You merely spewed your conspiracy in our ears without any intellectual presentation and derailed the whole thread. Now, can you stop this whole 'freemason, blahblahblah, commies' nonsense and please post something that actually has anything to do with this thread.

[State of the Church]

Kryozerkia has asked us to not respond to him anymore.

Say to Kryozerkia that it's not necessary: I will leave the thread.

[Cosmicus]

That's exactly what you did.

Kryozerkia has asked us to not respond to him anymore.

Sorry, I'll stop. But at the very least, I'll try to steer him back on topic.

[Qahadim]

New York Post.

Neo-Nazis and ultranationalists are luring gay Russians teens to "dates" where they are then bullied and tortured while being recorded on video, according to reports.

The mastermind behind the nationwide coordinated assaults is an infamous neo-Nazi named Maxim Martsinkevich who is the leader of an ultra-violent right-wing group based in Moscow called Format18.

Martsinkevich's newest campaign purports to stamp out pedophiles by posting same-sex personal ads on VK.com, the Russian equivalent of Facebook, according to the Huffington Post.

Followers of Martsinkevich's anti-pedophile campaign have organized themselves into two distinct groups -- "Occupy Pedophilyaj" and "Occupy Gerontilyaj" -- but they have only ever attacked male teenagers responding to the personal ads.

"Video recordings of bullying and tortures are freely distributed on the Internet in order to out LGBT teens to their respective schools, parents and friends. Many victims were driven to suicides, the rest are deeply traumatized," said Spectrum Human Rights Alliance (SHRA), an LGBT rights group that focuses on Eastern Europe.

"These self-proclaimed 'crime fighters' perform their actions under the broad day light, often outside and clearly visible to general public that indifferently passes by or even commend them."

In one of the relatively tame examples of the attacks posted on YouTube, a 15-year-old teen is lured to a date with an older man supposedly named "Uncle Dima" when a group of alleged neo-Nazis confront him.

The bullies start by taking the teen to a bench and interrogating him where the teen admits that he is there to have sex, possibly for money.

The group mocks him but the teen seems to think he is safe, giving his interrogators his name, where is from, what school he goes to and his age.

But things start to turn dark as a figure steps out of frame to seemingly fill a bottle with urine.

Someone then pours the contents of the bottle over the teen's head before another alleged Nazi kicks him.

YouTube
A Russian teenager is confronted by a group of neo-Nazis.
The video then cuts off.

To watch the graphic video click here.

"We do not like homosexuals," an Occupy Pedophilyaj member told Russian online newspaper Lenta.

"I think practically all gay men -- pedophiles. Once you've crossed over once, you can cross over again. Today he likes boys, and then it'll be children. They're not suitable for life in society."

The actions of groups like Occupy Pedophiyaj and Occupy Gerontilyaj come in the wake of two laws signed into law by President Vladimir Putin, which drastically restrict gay rights.

One, signed on July 3, bans adoption by same-sex foreign couples whose homeland recognizes their union as marriage, as well as by single people or unmarried couples from those countries.

A Kremlin statement said the measure is intended to guarantee children a "harmonious" upbringing and protect them from "complexes, emotional suffering and stress."

The second bill, signed into law on June 30, bans the "promotion" of "non-traditional sexual relations" towards children.

Authorities have interpreted the law to mean that public displays of affection between same sex couples are illegal and it also includes a provision allowing "pro-gay" foreigners to be arrested and detained for up to 14 days.

This latter provision was invoked in July when four Dutch LGBT right advocates were arrested at a summer camp, according to the Washington Blade.

Although the two bills strictly limit gay rights in Russia, Putin claims that the laws are not discrimination and are instead "about protecting children from such information."

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov echoed Putin's claims while defending the laws which ban what he calls "homosexual propaganda."

"We don't have a single international or common European commitment to allow propaganda of homosexuality," he said.

No words...

What the fuck?! What the actual fuck?! How can people look at themselves in the mirror and say "I'm a good person" when they go out and commit these horrible atrocities? To children! It boggles my mind. What's worse? After reading through this thread, that a small handful of people agree with what these sick bastards are doing. You're terrible human beings, and should take some time for deep introspection to reevaluate your lives, otherwise I see alot of fire abs brimstone in your futures.

[Tiktaaland]

No words...

What the fuck?! What the actual fuck?! How can people look at themselves in the mirror and say "I'm a good person" when they go out and commit these horrible atrocities? To children! It boggles my mind. What's worse? After reading through this thread, that a small handful of people agree with what these sick bastards are doing. You're terrible human beings, and should take some time for deep introspection to reevaluate your lives, otherwise I see alot of fire abs brimstone in your futures.

Yeah, that pretty much sums up my thoughts.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

And that is sadly why I don't think Russia goes do something about this.

Of course not, "teh gheys" are all too convenient of a target for Putin to distract his populace with so they don't know how badly everything else is going in the country.

Yeah! I'm sure it's very distracting to living standards that have greatly expanded and brought about a far bigger middle class, an economy that has become the 5th biggest in the world by PPP, social programs that have received huge increases over the years, unemployment brought to very low levels, stability,people living longer, etc.

Wait...that's almost as silly as expecting that somehow anything to do with gays would be distracting people from noticing if their lives were worse.

[The Nuclear Fist]

What else can be expected from Neo Nazi cowards? They are scum, bottom of the barrel. I'd like to think that the authorities will crack down on this, but *heh*, I doubt it when the majority of Russians are very homophobic.

[Oneracon]

Of course not, "teh gheys" are all too convenient of a target for Putin to distract his populace with so they don't know how badly everything else is going in the country.

Yeah! I'm sure it's very distracting to living standards that have greatly expanded and brought about a far bigger middle class, an economy that has become the 5th biggest in the world by PPP, social programs that have received huge increases over the years, unemployment brought to very low levels, stability,people living longer, etc.

Wait...that's almost as silly as expecting that somehow anything to do with gays would be distracting people from noticing if their lives were worse.

Violence, terrorism, ethnic strife, mortality among Russian males have still increased 61% since 1991, electoral corruption...

Seems like a utopia to me.

[Old Tyrannia]

I'm not sure what there is to say other than "fuck Nazism." All the more ironic that these people claim to be protecting children from abuse... By luring fifteen-year-olds to secluded places to abuse them. Wonderful logic you have there, gentlemen! I highly doubt, however, that this behaviour is endorsed by the Russian Orthodox Church. Homosexuality is considered a sin, but the Church is opposed to any violent or discriminatory behaviour towards homosexuals: http://rt.com/news/russian-church-accepts-gays/. Rather, the Church advocates an understanding approach- "hate the sin, love the sinner" being the appropriate biblical quote.

This is not religiously motivated.

[Arcturus Novus]

They have my respect (not the teens, the nazis).

2edgy4me

[Soviet Russia Republic]

Yeah! I'm sure it's very distracting to living standards that have greatly expanded and brought about a far bigger middle class, an economy that has become the 5th biggest in the world by PPP, social programs that have received huge increases over the years, unemployment brought to very low levels, stability,people living longer, etc.

Wait...that's almost as silly as expecting that somehow anything to do with gays would be distracting people from noticing if their lives were worse.

Violence, terrorism, ethnic strife, mortality among Russian males have still increased 61% since 1991, electoral corruption...

Seems like a utopia to me.

Violence, terrorism, etc, have all gone down greatly over time since the 90s. One reason why Putin is liked. Now if you think a significant portion of the population was still experiencing those things like in the past do you that Putin would have the support he dose now or in the past? And do you really think that somehow any law about gays would distract people from terrorism, violence in general, etc? Tell me, are you so easily distracted like that?

[Aquafireland]

Why do they beat them up?

[Qahadim]

I'm not sure what there is to say other than "fuck Nazism." All the more ironic that these people claim to be protecting children from abuse... By luring fifteen-year-olds to secluded places to abuse them. Wonderful logic you have there, gentlemen! I highly doubt, however, that this behaviour is endorsed by the Russian Orthodox Church. Homosexuality is considered a sin, but the Church is opposed to any violent or discriminatory behaviour towards homosexuals: http://rt.com/news/russian-church-accepts-gays/. Rather, the Church advocates an understanding approach- "hate the sin, love the sinner" being the appropriate biblical quote.

This is not religiously motivated.

I would presume that it is religiously motivated, on an individual level, but it is not endorsed by the orthodox church as a whole (or in part)

[Old Tyrannia]

Why do they beat them up?

Because Nazis are not, generally speaking, nice or tolerant people.

[Liriena]

Fucking disgusting. Shame on these despicable human beings.

[Arcturus Novus]

Why do they beat them up?

Because the ultra-right wing, bigoted extremists that call themselves Neo-Nazis (although I doubt they even support fascism or nationalism) are far from any standard sense of tolerance.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

I'm not sure what there is to say other than "fuck Nazism." All the more ironic that these people claim to be protecting children from abuse... By luring fifteen-year-olds to secluded places to abuse them. Wonderful logic you have there, gentlemen! I highly doubt, however, that this behaviour is endorsed by the Russian Orthodox Church. Homosexuality is considered a sin, but the Church is opposed to any violent or discriminatory behaviour towards homosexuals: http://rt.com/news/russian-church-accepts-gays/. Rather, the Church advocates an understanding approach- "hate the sin, love the sinner" being the appropriate biblical quote.

This is not religiously motivated.

No-one is suggesting that the Church would advocate violence against homosexuals; rather, the teaching that "homosexuality is sin" (based on the popularity of the Russian Orthodox Church) underlies these general discriminatory actions towards homosexuals, i.e. homophobia.

[Mkuki]

Why do they beat them up?

Nazism 101.

[Old Tyrannia]

I'm not sure what there is to say other than "fuck Nazism." All the more ironic that these people claim to be protecting children from abuse... By luring fifteen-year-olds to secluded places to abuse them. Wonderful logic you have there, gentlemen! I highly doubt, however, that this behaviour is endorsed by the Russian Orthodox Church. Homosexuality is considered a sin, but the Church is opposed to any violent or discriminatory behaviour towards homosexuals: http://rt.com/news/russian-church-accepts-gays/. Rather, the Church advocates an understanding approach- "hate the sin, love the sinner" being the appropriate biblical quote.

This is not religiously motivated.

No-one is suggesting that the Church would advocate violence against homosexuals; rather, the teaching that "homosexuality is sin" (based on the popularity of the Russian Orthodox Church) underlies these general discriminatory actions towards homosexuals, i.e. homophobia.

I believe that horrible people will always find a way to be horrible, whether or not they can use religion as an excuse. Note that National Socialism as it existed under Nazi Germany used Christianity for its own purposes at best and brutally suppressed it at worst. Hitler himself was quoted as being of the opinion Christianity would die out naturally in the next century.

[Souseiseki]

Why do they beat them up?

as many prominent scholars and many posters have already noted, nazis are usually kinda dicks

well, significant numbers of nazis. wouldn't wanna get into the all X are Y territory.

[Geilinor]

Today he likes boys, and then it'll be children.

A Kremlin statement said the measure is intended to guarantee children a "harmonious" upbringing and protect them from "complexes, emotional suffering and stress."

The second bill, signed into law on June 30, bans the "promotion" of "non-traditional sexual relations" towards children.

Authorities have interpreted the law to mean that public displays of affection between same sex couples are illegal and it also includes a provision allowing "pro-gay" foreigners to be arrested and detained for up to 14 days.

Although the two bills strictly limit gay rights in Russia, Putin claims that the laws are not discrimination and are instead "about protecting children from such information."

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov echoed Putin's claims while defending the laws which ban what he calls "homosexual propaganda."

No words...

1. The slippery slope fallacy again?
2. Putin must be laughing with glee at this. Screw the gays.
3. Those laws are full of "Won't someone please think of the children!"
4. Good job Russia, becoming the laughingstock of Europe.
5. As a member of the Council of Europe, Russia is bound to the European Convention of Human Rights. It is discrimination, believe it or not, Putin.