NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #3

[Grand Britannia]

Combat lions.

No, I'm serious.

[Purpelia]

What would be their use in a post stone tools era?

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Hi guys, just two questions:

(a) Is an RPK type kalashnikov LMG compatible with quick-change barrels?

(b) Is the FN MAG compatible with rimmed cartridges like the .303 or 7.62x54?

I don't think so, to either.
I mean you probably could build a QCB for an RPK-derivative, but it'd be a complete new build as a weapon.
There's also the fact that, partly due to its use of magazines, the RPK would rarely heat up to such a point as to require QCBs.

The MAG isn't compatible I don't think because it uses a push-through system to get the cartridges from the belt to the chamber. Push-through is obviously going to have issues with shell links when considering rims.
Meanwhile, machine guns designed for rimmed ammunition such as the PK family can be modified to use rimless ammunition because it's no functional difference. The PK uses a pull-through system to extract cartridges from the belt.

[Crookfur]

Hi guys, just two questions:

(a) Is an RPK type kalashnikov LMG compatible with quick-change barrels?

(b) Is the FN MAG compatible with rimmed cartridges like the .303 or 7.62x54?

a: no

b: no

well in both cases you could thoeretically make modifications to allow such things but at that point you are more or less talking "new gun with similar operating mechanism""

[Grand Britannia]

What would be their use in a post stone tools era?

Really, really elaborate CQC ambushes.

[Purpelia]

What would be their use in a post stone tools era?

Really, really elaborate CQC ambushes.

In which your enemy does not have his stone hammer/spear/axe/sling around to kill the thing?

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Really, really elaborate CQC ambushes.

In which your enemy does not have his stone hammer/spear/axe/sling around to kill the thing?

I dunno.
Might have worked in 'Nam.

Apparently, it did.
http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/maneating13.html

four hundreds pounds of seasoned killing machine says "fuck tents".

[Crookfur]

Combat lions might vaguely work as a stand in for dogs if you happen to have Lions that have domesticated for a significant period and they have managed to get over the whole "F*ck you I'm a cat" thing that tends to ruin all such plans and ideas.

[Grand Britannia]

Really, really elaborate CQC ambushes.

In which your enemy does not have his stone hammer/spear/axe/sling around to kill the thing?

Well, could you kill a lion if it gets its paws on you?

[The Corparation]

Combat lions.

No, I'm serious.

Combat Lions? Puhlease! Everyone knows that Combat Lions are vastly inferior to Combat Ligers.

[Purpelia]

In which your enemy does not have his stone hammer/spear/axe/sling around to kill the thing?

Well, could you kill a lion if it gets its paws on you?

Not me. Bur stone age tribe squad tactics call for having at least two cousins at your side with stone tipped spears and such. Or at least clubs.

[Mitheldalond]

Revised battleship design. (Though it's really more like a battleship/command ship/pocket helicopter carrier.)

Type: Turear-class battleship
Displacement: in excess of 70,000 tons
Length: 920.5 ft
Beam: 121 ft
Draft: 36 ft
Propulsion: 2 x A1B nuclear reactors, 4 x propellers and 3 x oversized rudders
Speed: Standard/cruising: 30 knots, Flank: 35-37 knots
Range: unlimited (nuclear)
Complement: 1000 ship's crew, 150 air crew, 50-100 Navy SEALs
Armament:
*6 x 10in AGS cannons mounted in 2 turrets (one fore and aft)
*4 x Mk-45 5in guns
*44 x Mk 41 8-cell VLS
-120 x Tomahawk
-56 x RGM-84L Harpoon
-124 x RIM-174 ERAM
-16 x RIM-162 ESSM
-32 x ASROC
*34 x Mk 57 VLS
-480 x RIM-162 ESSM
-24 x RIM-174 ERAM
*4 x Mk 26 GMLS (Modified to fire RIM-67s and Harpoons)
-96 x RIM-67 (24 per launcher)
-64 x RGM-84L Harpoon (16 per launcher)
*2 x Mk 112 ASROC launcher
-48 x ASROC (24 per launcher; 8 in launcher + 2 reloads)
*4 x Mk-32 triple torpedo tubes
*10 x Phalanx CIWS
*8 x SeaRam CIWS
*4 x 21-cell RAM launchers
*20 x Trident II ballistic missile launch tubes
-10 x anti-ship missiles (4 x 500lb, or 2 x 1000lb kinetic slugs with guidance systems)
-10 x normal ballistic missiles (of which 1-2 may carry nuclear MIRV warheads in peacetime, or 4-6 in wartime)
Armor: Work in progress
Aircraft:
*2 x F-35B
*2 x MH-60R Seahawk
*1 x MH-60S Seahawk
*12 x MQ-8 Fire Scout
Aviation Facilities: Below deck hangars
Sensors and Electronics: work in progress
Cost: $10 billion each

Somehow, all of that fits in the ship. I'm not too sure about the crew complement, though. It's going to be armored because even if the armor won't stop a missile, there are enough people with large caliber naval guns that I figure it's better to be safe than sorry.
Any thoughts?

[The Kievan People]

Another battleship, yayyyy

*10 x Phalanx CIWS
*8 x SeaRam CIWS
*4 x 21-cell RAM launchers

Look at some real ships, these numbers are crazy.

[The Akasha Colony]

Revised battleship design. (Though it's really more like a battleship/command ship/pocket helicopter carrier.)

Type: Turear-class battleship
Displacement: in excess of 70,000 tons
Length: 920.5 ft
Beam: 121 ft
Draft: 36 ft
Propulsion: 2 x A1B nuclear reactors, 4 x propellers and 3 x oversized rudders
Speed: Standard/cruising: 30 knots, Flank: 35-37 knots
Range: unlimited (nuclear)
Complement: 1000 ship's crew, 150 air crew, 50-100 Navy SEALs
Armament:
*6 x 10in AGS cannons mounted in 2 turrets (one fore and aft)
*4 x Mk-45 5in guns
*44 x Mk 41 8-cell VLS
-120 x Tomahawk
-56 x RGM-84L Harpoon
-124 x RIM-174 ERAM
-16 x RIM-162 ESSM
-32 x ASROC
*34 x Mk 57 VLS
-480 x RIM-162 ESSM
-24 x RIM-174 ERAM
*4 x Mk 26 GMLS (Modified to fire RIM-67s and Harpoons)
-96 x RIM-67 (24 per launcher)
-64 x RGM-84L Harpoon (16 per launcher)
*2 x Mk 112 ASROC launcher
-48 x ASROC (24 per launcher; 8 in launcher + 2 reloads)
*4 x Mk-32 triple torpedo tubes
*10 x Phalanx CIWS
*8 x SeaRam CIWS
*4 x 21-cell RAM launchers
*20 x Trident II ballistic missile launch tubes
-10 x anti-ship missiles (4 x 500lb, or 2 x 1000lb kinetic slugs with guidance systems)
-10 x normal ballistic missiles (of which 1-2 may carry nuclear MIRV warheads in peacetime, or 4-6 in wartime)
Armor: Work in progress
Aircraft:
*2 x F-35B
*2 x MH-60R Seahawk
*1 x MH-60S Seahawk
*12 x MQ-8 Fire Scout
Aviation Facilities: Below deck hangars
Sensors and Electronics: work in progress
Cost: $10 billion each

Somehow, all of that fits in the ship. I'm not too sure about the crew complement, though. It's going to be armored because even if the armor won't stop a missile, there are enough people with large caliber naval guns that I figure it's better to be safe than sorry.
Any thoughts?

Why so many different types of launchers, all firing the same missile types anyway? If at all possible, for the sake of standardization, they should be converted into Mk 41 or Mk 57 VLS. It makes supply and maintenance significantly easier.

Why both SeaRAM and conventional RAM? For the same reasons, it's easier to just pick one rather than do both.

The F-35s won't be worth much. They take up a significant amount of space since they have an incompatible maintenance footprint with the helicopters and require a completely different set of armaments. Forced to operate in VTOL mode they will have limited payload and range as well, and with only two, you'll hardly be contesting the skies.

Tridents on a warship are a waste of space. And will start a nuclear war if you launch them, even the conventional ones. I'm sure you recall the long 'discussion' with Black Hand about them.

What are you going to do with several dozen to a hundred SEALs and a grand total of one helicopter?

[Rich and Corporations]

If he converted his F-35s into electronic warfare planes, they would be quite useful indeed. They could also act as spotters.

[The State of Czecho-Slovakia]

This is what I believe you ought to adopt:

Type: Turear-class battleship
Displacement: 20,000 tons
Length: 920.5 ft
Beam: 121 ft
Draft: 36 ft
Propulsion: 2 x A1B nuclear reactors, 4 x propellers and 3 x oversized rudders
Speed: Standard/cruising: 30 knots, Flank: 32 knots
Complement: 800
Armament:
4 12in guns in Twin Turrets
4 Phalanx CIWS
Armor: 11 in on Turrets, 76mm Belt over Vitals
Aircraft:
4 Helicopters tasked with ASW
Aviation Facilities: 1 Flight Deck
Sensors and Electronics: work in progress
Cost: $10 billion each

[The Akasha Colony]

If he converted his F-35s into electronic warfare planes, they would be quite useful indeed. They could also act as spotters.

Not enough to make up for the enormous amount of space and complication they'd add. As for spotting, I presume that's what his dozen Fire Scouts are for, seeing as how that's their only purpose. If he's spotting for guns, that's plenty of range.

[Saphirasia]

Hi guys, just two questions:

(a) Is an RPK type kalashnikov LMG compatible with quick-change barrels?

(b) Is the FN MAG compatible with rimmed cartridges like the .303 or 7.62x54?

I don't think so, to either.
I mean you probably could build a QCB for an RPK-derivative, but it'd be a complete new build as a weapon.
There's also the fact that, partly due to its use of magazines, the RPK would rarely heat up to such a point as to require QCBs.

IIRC, the Pecheng is an updated version that uses QCBs.
...
Or is the Pecheng a modernized PK?
...
Dammit, now I have to go and look.

[The State of Czecho-Slovakia]

Yes with the heavy gun armament there is really no need for cruise missiles or ASHM's. Not that guns would be the better choice between those two, but if you decide to go with big guns you'll have enough mass already to deal with without adding more. The flight deck is a good idea, as like in the Moskova class they could help fight subs, which naturally love to pray on large surface combatants. AA and AM aren't a problem, so minimal Phalanx will do, you's never leave one of these ships unescorted any how, and purpose built platforms would do a better job of that anyways.

[San-Silvacian]

I don't think so, to either.
I mean you probably could build a QCB for an RPK-derivative, but it'd be a complete new build as a weapon.
There's also the fact that, partly due to its use of magazines, the RPK would rarely heat up to such a point as to require QCBs.

IIRC, the Pecheng is an updated version that uses QCBs.
...
Or is the Pecheng a modernized PK?
...
Dammit, now I have to go and look.

The Pecheng is a better PKM.

It doesn't have Quick-Change Barrels but is force-cooled.

Aks Puz whenever he gets on.

[The UK in Exile]

Well, could you kill a lion if it gets its paws on you?

Not me. Bur stone age tribe squad tactics call for having at least two cousins at your side with stone tipped spears and such. Or at least clubs.

what would be a good percentage of the population to have in my stone age military? all of my population are hunters and none of them are gatherers.

Also is there a nice cheap alternative to stone I can equip my regular warriors with and save the stone spears for my elite special forces?

[The Akasha Colony]

Not me. Bur stone age tribe squad tactics call for having at least two cousins at your side with stone tipped spears and such. Or at least clubs.

what would be a good percentage of the population to have in my stone age military? all of my population are hunters and none of them are gatherers.

Also is there a nice cheap alternative to stone I can equip my regular warriors in and save the stone spears for my elite special forces?

I hear hard wood's a good alternative. I think there were some trials with it a while back and you can find the info on a DTIC powerpoint.

[Mitheldalond]

Another battleship, yayyyy

*10 x Phalanx CIWS
*8 x SeaRam CIWS
*4 x 21-cell RAM launchers

Look at some real ships, these numbers are crazy.

They're supposed to be crazy. They were designed to take on NS fleets, which are known to send waves of hundreds of aircraft and missiles. I only have 20 battleships total, and no more than 5 are ever deployed away from home at the same time.

They were designed when my nation was still very small and didn't have the manpower to crew large numbers of ships. The idea was to combine the roles and capabilities of several types ships into a single platform in order to cut down on crew numbers. Essentially, they have the command abilities of a cruiser or carrier and the firepower of a destroyer squadron. They can also perform the roles of a ballistic missile sub and a light helicopter carrier/amphibious assault ship.

Now that my nation has a larger population, the most of the battleships have been put in reserve, as they are being superseded by multiple smaller ships that cost significantly less to produce. They are still maintained for rapid deployment should the need arise, but the loss of one is so catastrophic that they rarely leave national waters. They are vulnerable to submarine torpedo attacks, so the five that are actively deployed are always accompanied by several destroyers and frigates, and 2 attack subs.

Why so many different types of launchers, all firing the same missile types anyway? If at all possible, for the sake of standardization, they should be converted into Mk 41 or Mk 57 VLS. It makes supply and maintenance significantly easier.

Why both SeaRAM and conventional RAM? For the same reasons, it's easier to just pick one rather than do both.

The F-35s won't be worth much. They take up a significant amount of space since they have an incompatible maintenance footprint with the helicopters and require a completely different set of armaments. Forced to operate in VTOL mode they will have limited payload and range as well, and with only two, you'll hardly be contesting the skies.

Tridents on a warship are a waste of space. And will start a nuclear war if you launch them, even the conventional ones. I'm sure you recall the long 'discussion' with Black Hand about them.

What are you going to do with several dozen to a hundred SEALs and a grand total of one helicopter?

The variety of launchers is mostly because I used Montana-class battleship hull as the basic design and removed whatever I didn't need, then replaced/added modern weapons and systems where they would fit on the hull.

The tridents are there because I didn't have ballistic missile subs when the battleships were designed.

I forget the original reason for the F-35s, but they probably aren't necessary as I plan on always having a light carrier escorting each battleship. (Since each battleship costs more than a Nimitz-class supercarrier). I guess I'll replace the F-35s with a few more helicopters.

The SEALs are there on the off chance that a battleship is ever boarded. One being taken over by an enemy nation would be a disaster. More realistically, they're there in case I ever need to send troops ashore on short notice. I also have three helicopters, plus 12 UAVs, not just one.

[The UK in Exile]

what would be a good percentage of the population to have in my stone age military? all of my population are hunters and none of them are gatherers.

Also is there a nice cheap alternative to stone I can equip my regular warriors in and save the stone spears for my elite special forces?

I hear hard wood's a good alternative. I think there were some trials with it a while back and you can find the info on a DTIC powerpoint.

I heard good things about wood, the only problem with it is I hear that some times it catches fire. Therefore all of my soldiers will practice being on fire, so that if this very obvious flaw comes up in battle they will not be inconvenienced by it.

[The Akasha Colony]

They're supposed to be crazy. They were designed to take on NS fleets, which are known to send waves of hundreds of aircraft and missiles. I only have 20 battleships total, and no more than 5 are ever deployed away from home at the same time.

They were designed when my nation was still very small and didn't have the manpower to crew large numbers of ships. The idea was to combine the roles and capabilities of several types ships into a single platform in order to cut down on crew numbers. Essentially, they have the command abilities of a cruiser or carrier and the firepower of a destroyer squadron. They can also perform the roles of a ballistic missile sub and a light helicopter carrier/amphibious assault ship.

Now that my nation has a larger population, the most of the battleships have been put in reserve, as they are being superseded by multiple smaller ships that cost significantly less to produce. They are still maintained for rapid deployment should the need arise, but the loss of one is so catastrophic that they rarely leave national waters. They are vulnerable to submarine torpedo attacks, so the five that are actively deployed are always accompanied by several destroyers and frigates, and 2 attack subs.

I have never understood this. Nations claiming that they are too 'small' to field small ships? How many European nations do you see deciding they will spend their entire naval budget to buy a single supercarrier because they can't crew 'small ships?' Naval groups are like pyramids. To build the upper level, you need a sufficiently strong lower level. If you can't field a decent number of small ships, big ships are beyond your budget and manpower too.

Multi-role ships are fine, but trying to 'save' money by building a $10 billion ship doesn't compute. For that money, you could build a light carrier, a gun-cruiser, and a couple of destroyers right there and have all the same capabilities. The systems on these ships don't even seem that old; the Mk 57 PVLS and AGS aren't even in service yet, and they've already been mothballed in your navy?

The variety of launchers is mostly because I used Montana-class battleship hull as the basic design and removed whatever I didn't need, then replaced/added modern weapons and systems where they would fit on the hull.

The tridents are there because I didn't have ballistic missile subs when the battleships were designed.

I forget the original reason for the F-35s, but they probably aren't necessary as I plan on always having a light carrier escorting each battleship. (Since each battleship costs more than a Nimitz-class supercarrier). I guess I'll replace the F-35s with a few more helicopters.

The SEALs are there on the off chance that a battleship is ever boarded. One being taken over by an enemy nation would be a disaster. More realistically, they're there in case I ever need to send troops ashore on short notice. I also have three helicopters, plus 12 UAVs, not just one.

Unless you're literally trying to convert a physically preexisting hull, you're better off just redesigning it to work more efficiently to maximize VLS space.

When were these designed if you somehow had SLBMs but no submarines to launch them from, along with PVLS, VLS, and AGS? That aside, the issue of putting AShBM non-nuclear warheads on a missile designed and normally fielded for nothing but nuclear warfare is a bad idea.

Putting SEALs aboard your ship full time is a waste. You shouldn't be getting boarded under any circumstances, and if you do, something's gone so wrong the SEALs won't save you. If they're there for a mission, sure. But leaving them there normally wastes manpower, especially since it limits their training abilities.

I heard good things about wood, the only problem with it is I hear that some times it catches fire. Therefore all of my soldiers will practice being on fire, so that if this very obvious flaw comes up in battle they will not be inconvenienced by it.

You could get an animal skin and carry water in it. Some complain about the weight but any hunter worth his salt should be able to deal with it. Probably should add a few small throwing rocks to your arsenal in the event your stick breaks or the enemy's out of range.