NATION

PASSWORD

Catalonia says no to austerity in standoff with government

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
The Spiral Future
Diplomat
 
Posts: 903
Founded: Feb 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Catalonia says no to austerity in standoff with government

Postby The Spiral Future » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:02 am

Link : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ap ... cuts-spain

-------



The Spanish region of Catalonia will not make the spending cuts necessary to achieve its 2013 budget deficit as they would be impossible to impose, the region's economy minister Andreu Mas-Colell told Reuters.

Catalonia would need to cut €4.8bn (£4bn) from its budget, which includes health and education spending, to meet the central government's target of 0.7 percent of gross domestic product, Mas-Colell said.

"We will not make these cuts," he said. "It is just impossible, I don't know how to even start."

Reining in the spending of Spain's 17 regional governments is key to the country achieving overall budget deficit targets imposed by Brussels, though the goals are likely to be increased to give Spain more time, leeway that will be passed on to the regions.

Catalonia, whose leader Artur Mas is driving for independence from Spain, has an economy almost as big as Portugal's and generates one fifth of Spanish gross domestic product. The region overshot a 1.5% deficit target by 0.5 percentage points in 2012.

Catalonia's leader is in a standoff with Spain's prime minister Mariano Rajoy, as the Catalans plan on holding a referendum on independence next year. The central government, meanwhile, has the power to give the region more time to balance its books.

The region's Treasury faces total bond redemptions of €4.8bn by 3 May, according to Thomson Reuters data. Catalonia has formally requested €9.1bn for this year from the central government's liquidity fund, of which €7.7bn will be used to pay bondholders.

The Catalan government has yet to approve its budget for 2013 – the only one of Spain's 17 regional territories not to have done so – as it waits the expected softening of targets from Brussels for Spain.

"We think it makes sense to wait to present the budget until we know the precise (deficit target) figure," Mas-Colell said.

Spain will increase its 2013 deficit target to 6% of gross domestic product, a government source has told Reuters, and is negotiating with the European commission for more time to cut its fiscal gap to 3% of GDP, currently targeted for 2014.

-----------

I.......am on the fence here. Austerity has gone through some thorough testing as a policy and the report supporting it has been shown to be flawed. It doesn't seem to be delivering what it promised (or it has with less effect than promised). On the other side of things, support for independence was rising last I checked for Catalonia, it's been a while though so I'm not sure how it is now. If Spain began to fracture I don't want to think of the consequences for my own homeland. Why do I say that, well this just seems to be another political ploy as much as an economic one, to show Catalonia can stand up to Spain as it were. It could lead to more support for independence, That the nationalists are fighting against the big bad austerity wielding government for the people.

What are your thoughts on this matter NSG.
SaintB wrote:I like to believe that civil rights are a revolution. That revolution will never stop until everyone in the world is legally equal.

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:07 am

I think that spain is in a world of hurt and someone has to take a stand against austerity.
whatever

User avatar
Phocidaea
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5257
Founded: Jul 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Phocidaea » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:09 am

What in the blue hell is this big scary "austerity" that everyone and their brother seems to bitch about in Europe?

Yes, I know what it means, but I personally don't equate "spending cuts" with "TEH END OF TEH WORLD START PROTESTINGS"
Call me Phoca.
Senator [Unknown] of the Liberal Democrats in NSG Senate.
Je suis Charlie: Because your feels don't justify murder.

User avatar
Inyourfaceistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12608
Founded: Aug 20, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Inyourfaceistan » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:09 am

I'm on the fence. I support government budget cuts and austerity measures, but I support Catalonian independence.


It's not French,it's not Spanish,it's Inyurstan
"Inyourfaceistan" refers to my player/user name, "Inyursta" is my IC name. NOT INYURSTAN. IF YOU CALL INYURSTA "INYURSTAN" THEN IT SHOWS THAT YOU CANT READ. Just refer to me as IYF or Stan.

User avatar
Choronzon
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9935
Founded: Apr 17, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Choronzon » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:11 am

Considering the argument used to justify austerity for the past couple of years was based on fuzzy math and failure to double check the code put into an excel spreadsheet I'm going to go with Catalonia making the right call.

User avatar
Souseiseki
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19917
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Souseiseki » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:11 am

Phocidaea wrote:What in the blue hell is this big scary "austerity" that everyone and their brother seems to bitch about in Europe?

Yes, I know what it means, but I personally don't equate "spending cuts" with "TEH END OF TEH WORLD START PROTESTINGS"

fucks up peoples lives
doesn't actually work

it's not exactly the end of the world but it's pretty shit and stupid and it's pretty easy to see why people would protest :-(

good for them.
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

User avatar
Iosac Kingborough
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Iosac Kingborough » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:11 am

I personally have been expecting a rise in independence movements since this whole thing came down. Catalonia, Brittany, Cornwall, Scotland - they're all trying for it at the moment. I personally am not sure if that is a good idea or a bad one.

I do personally from an amateur perspective think austerity was a silly idea in the first place; it's just killing the economy and progressively making it worse not better. And it reaches a point where you can't cut anymore money from the budget before the government collapses.
His Excellency,
Kingborough,
World Assembly Delegate of the British Isles

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:12 am

Phocidaea wrote:What in the blue hell is this big scary "austerity" that everyone and their brother seems to bitch about in Europe?

Yes, I know what it means, but I personally don't equate "spending cuts" with "TEH END OF TEH WORLD START PROTESTINGS"


horrificly high unemployment rates

Five years after its housing boom turned to bust, Spanish unemployment hit a record high of 27.2 percent in the first quarter of 2013. It's almost too horrible to comprehend, but 19.5 percent of the total workforce has not had a job in the past six months; 15.3 percent have not in the past year; and 9.2 percent have not in the past two years.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... er/275324/
whatever

User avatar
The Spiral Future
Diplomat
 
Posts: 903
Founded: Feb 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Spiral Future » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:13 am

Phocidaea wrote:What in the blue hell is this big scary "austerity" that everyone and their brother seems to bitch about in Europe?

Yes, I know what it means, but I personally don't equate "spending cuts" with "TEH END OF TEH WORLD START PROTESTINGS"


An economic policy that makes life harder for the people by the reduction in government services and increase in taxes it espouses.......it also hasn't worked in quite a few cases, or has caused alternate political movements to rise like Golden Dawn.

In Spains case unemployment is simply rising, it recently hit 27.2 percent recently as you can read here : http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/2 ... 6620130425

This has naturally raised tensions about if it works or not.
SaintB wrote:I like to believe that civil rights are a revolution. That revolution will never stop until everyone in the world is legally equal.

User avatar
Calorax
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1258
Founded: Apr 27, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Calorax » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:13 am

Iosac Kingborough wrote:Catalonia, Brittany, Cornwall, Scotland

Lol, I don't see that happening any time soon. Same with Brittany.
Last edited by Calorax on Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fellate my ego! Check out my factbook!
Pro: Björk, Scotland, Irish reunification, LGBT rights and marriage, secularism, centrism, feminism, free education and healthcare, completely free speech, representative democracy, pacifism, Nordic model, EU, environmentalism, UK Green Party

Against: Björkaphobia, social conservatism, corporatism, fascism, death penalty, Thatcherism, UKIP, House of Lords, nuclear power, war on drugs, homophobia, misogyny, USA foreign policy

I don't have a clue about: Palestine.
Economic Left/Right: -8.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.56


I'm a social anarchist. Yeah, i know


Music taste and stuff.
INFJ

User avatar
The Spiral Future
Diplomat
 
Posts: 903
Founded: Feb 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Spiral Future » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:14 am

Ashmoria wrote:
Phocidaea wrote:What in the blue hell is this big scary "austerity" that everyone and their brother seems to bitch about in Europe?

Yes, I know what it means, but I personally don't equate "spending cuts" with "TEH END OF TEH WORLD START PROTESTINGS"


horrificly high unemployment rates

Five years after its housing boom turned to bust, Spanish unemployment hit a record high of 27.2 percent in the first quarter of 2013. It's almost too horrible to comprehend, but 19.5 percent of the total workforce has not had a job in the past six months; 15.3 percent have not in the past year; and 9.2 percent have not in the past two years.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... er/275324/


Damn Ninja :p
SaintB wrote:I like to believe that civil rights are a revolution. That revolution will never stop until everyone in the world is legally equal.

User avatar
Iosac Kingborough
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Iosac Kingborough » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:15 am

Calorax wrote:
Iosac Kingborough wrote:Catalonia, Brittany, Cornwall, Scotland

Lol, I don't see that happening any time soon. Same with Brittany.


Brittany has its own language, ethnic group and culture, it used to be an independent nation. It's not unreasonable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breton_nationalism
His Excellency,
Kingborough,
World Assembly Delegate of the British Isles

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:15 am

The Spiral Future wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:
horrificly high unemployment rates


http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... er/275324/


Damn Ninja :p


its good to have 2 sources.
whatever

User avatar
The Spiral Future
Diplomat
 
Posts: 903
Founded: Feb 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Spiral Future » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:17 am

Iosac Kingborough wrote:
Calorax wrote:Lol, I don't see that happening any time soon. Same with Brittany.


Brittany has its own language, ethnic group and culture, it used to be an independent nation. It's not unreasonable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breton_nationalism


It's been a while since I've heard anything though and to be honest France's central government keeps an insanely tight reign on the country. It's the same in Ireland in fact.
SaintB wrote:I like to believe that civil rights are a revolution. That revolution will never stop until everyone in the world is legally equal.

User avatar
Zweite Alaje
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9500
Founded: Oct 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Zweite Alaje » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:18 am

Good job, Catalunya.
Geist über Körper, durch Aktionen Ehrung
Likes: Corporatism, Market Socialism, Syndicalism, Progressivism, Pantheism, Gaia Hypothesis, Centrism, Dirigisme

Dislikes: Capitalism, Liberalism, Conservatism, Libertarianism, Abortion, Modern Feminism
I've been: Communist , Fascist
Economic Left/Right: -7.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.18

NIFP
Please don't call me Zweite, Al or Ally is fine. Add 2548 posts, founded Oct 06, 2011

User avatar
Souseiseki
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19917
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Souseiseki » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:18 am

The Spiral Future wrote:
Iosac Kingborough wrote:
Brittany has its own language, ethnic group and culture, it used to be an independent nation. It's not unreasonable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breton_nationalism


It's been a while since I've heard anything though and to be honest France's central government keeps an insanely tight reign on the country. It's the same in Ireland in fact.

well at least they don't beat them for speaking breton

not for, like, 10 years or something. at least.

won't sign that charter on minority languages though

i need to wonder about ireland though
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 114361
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:19 am

The Spiral Future wrote:
Iosac Kingborough wrote:
Brittany has its own language, ethnic group and culture, it used to be an independent nation. It's not unreasonable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breton_nationalism


It's been a while since I've heard anything though and to be honest France's central government keeps an insanely tight reign on the country. It's the same in Ireland in fact.

What part of Ireland wants to become independent?
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

User avatar
The Spiral Future
Diplomat
 
Posts: 903
Founded: Feb 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Spiral Future » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:20 am

Souseiseki wrote:
The Spiral Future wrote:
It's been a while since I've heard anything though and to be honest France's central government keeps an insanely tight reign on the country. It's the same in Ireland in fact.

well at least they don't beat them for speaking breton

not for, like, 10 years or something. at least.

won't sign that charter on minority languages though

i need to wonder about ireland though


What about Ireland? I was referring to the fact that the county councils have no power at all. Everything must go through the government meaning the whole system ends up inefficient. I was presuming that France has something similar.
SaintB wrote:I like to believe that civil rights are a revolution. That revolution will never stop until everyone in the world is legally equal.

User avatar
Arglorand
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12597
Founded: Jan 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Arglorand » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:21 am

Farnhamia wrote:
The Spiral Future wrote:
It's been a while since I've heard anything though and to be honest France's central government keeps an insanely tight reign on the country. It's the same in Ireland in fact.

What part of Ireland wants to become independent?

Rockall.
Kosovo is Morrowind. N'wah.
Impeach Dagoth Ur, legalise Daedra worship, the Empire is theft. Nerevarine 3E 427.

Pros: Dunmeri independence, abolition of the Empire, the Daedra, Morag Tong, House Redoran, Ashlander interests, abolitionism, Dissident Priests, canonisation of St. Jiub the Cliff Racer Slayer.
Cons: Imperials, the Empire, the False Tribunal, Dagoth Ur, House Hlaalu, Imperials, the Eight Divines, "Talos", "Nords", Imperial unionism, Imperials.

I am a: Social Democrat | Bright green | Republican | Intersectional feminist | Civic nationalist | Multiculturalist
(and i blatantly stole this from Old Tyrannia)

User avatar
Calorax
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1258
Founded: Apr 27, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Calorax » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:21 am

Iosac Kingborough wrote:
Calorax wrote:Lol, I don't see that happening any time soon. Same with Brittany.


Brittany has its own language, ethnic group and culture, it used to be an independent nation. It's not unreasonable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breton_nationalism

I know it does, and so does Cornwall, but neither of them support being independent countries. 4.6% of Bretons support independence and the Cornish nationalists just want more devolved power and recognition as a country, not independence from the UK. They wanna be like Wales.
Fellate my ego! Check out my factbook!
Pro: Björk, Scotland, Irish reunification, LGBT rights and marriage, secularism, centrism, feminism, free education and healthcare, completely free speech, representative democracy, pacifism, Nordic model, EU, environmentalism, UK Green Party

Against: Björkaphobia, social conservatism, corporatism, fascism, death penalty, Thatcherism, UKIP, House of Lords, nuclear power, war on drugs, homophobia, misogyny, USA foreign policy

I don't have a clue about: Palestine.
Economic Left/Right: -8.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.56


I'm a social anarchist. Yeah, i know


Music taste and stuff.
INFJ

User avatar
The Spiral Future
Diplomat
 
Posts: 903
Founded: Feb 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Spiral Future » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:22 am

Farnhamia wrote:
The Spiral Future wrote:
It's been a while since I've heard anything though and to be honest France's central government keeps an insanely tight reign on the country. It's the same in Ireland in fact.

What part of Ireland wants to become independent?


Well there is the South Kerry Independence Alliance :p : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Kerr ... t_Alliance

Though to be honest that's just Kerry being Kerry, nothing to worry about. See my post above.
SaintB wrote:I like to believe that civil rights are a revolution. That revolution will never stop until everyone in the world is legally equal.

User avatar
Arglorand
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12597
Founded: Jan 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Arglorand » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:23 am

Calorax wrote:
Iosac Kingborough wrote:
Brittany has its own language, ethnic group and culture, it used to be an independent nation. It's not unreasonable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breton_nationalism

I know it does, and so does Cornwall, but neither of them support being independent countries. 4.6% of Bretons support independence and the Cornish nationalists just want more devolved power and recognition as a country, not independence from the UK. They wanna be like Wales.

If you want to see truly feasible increase in nationalism, look to Moravia in the Czech Republic.
Kosovo is Morrowind. N'wah.
Impeach Dagoth Ur, legalise Daedra worship, the Empire is theft. Nerevarine 3E 427.

Pros: Dunmeri independence, abolition of the Empire, the Daedra, Morag Tong, House Redoran, Ashlander interests, abolitionism, Dissident Priests, canonisation of St. Jiub the Cliff Racer Slayer.
Cons: Imperials, the Empire, the False Tribunal, Dagoth Ur, House Hlaalu, Imperials, the Eight Divines, "Talos", "Nords", Imperial unionism, Imperials.

I am a: Social Democrat | Bright green | Republican | Intersectional feminist | Civic nationalist | Multiculturalist
(and i blatantly stole this from Old Tyrannia)

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 114361
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:26 am

Arglorand wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:What part of Ireland wants to become independent?

Rockall.

Yeah, but ... no one lives there ...
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

User avatar
Nationalist Eminral Republic
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5859
Founded: Jun 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nationalist Eminral Republic » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:27 am

Eurocrisis will either trigger European Union to impose more power over its members or the Eurozone will breakout. Personally I do not support more EU control. I would prefer European countries to have their own currencies.
[align=center]
Federation of Eminral RepublicPederasyon ng Republika ng Eminral
エミンラル共和連邦 Federación de la República Eminral

User avatar
Nationalist State of Knox
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10291
Founded: Feb 22, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:28 am

Iosac Kingborough wrote:
Calorax wrote:Lol, I don't see that happening any time soon. Same with Brittany.


Brittany has its own language, ethnic group and culture, it used to be an independent nation. It's not unreasonable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breton_nationalism

Same with Cornwall.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dibbenia, Dumb Ideologies, Eieryn, Fartsniffage, Greater Britannian Realm, Maraganta, Might Delete Later, Ostroeuropa, Outer Armatonisdaristan, Perishna, Rusozak, Sena Iulia, Shazbotdom, Sycozet Productions Incorporated, Tarsonis, Unogonduria, Urine Town, Valrifell

Advertisement

Remove ads