UnhealthyTruthseeker wrote:<snip escalating personal attack without any serious attention to the topic at all>
*closes door on UT*
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by Muravyets » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:27 pm
UnhealthyTruthseeker wrote:<snip escalating personal attack without any serious attention to the topic at all>
by UnhealthyTruthseeker » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:29 pm
Muravyets wrote:*closes door on UT*
by DaWoad » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:52 pm
by Muravyets » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:24 pm
DaWoad wrote:Well I have failed, epically, to find any country in which the "majority religion" is animism (depending on how, precisely, you define animism). This could be because religion has "evolved" into a more "sophisticated" (read personificated) form globally or it could simply be that the personificated religions have spread more rapidly (primarily by converting or killing the "less sophisticated") I'm honestly not sure what evidence one could present to conclusively make the case in either direction.
More importantly, Murav, UT, you guys both need to step away from the Ad Hominems and get back to the discussion (preferably taking it a little less personnally please).
by Coffin-Breathe » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:22 am
Muravyets wrote:Coffin-Breathe wrote:Has anyone ever wasted a thought to the fact, that there´s no religion "from the beginning", as would, imo, being, if god(s) is (are) existing and true ? But there is none, as all known religions or cults started somewhen in history, and many of them faded away over the times...
Primitive cultures tend to worship Animism, while they tend to adopt or develop some system of personificated god(s) when they advance; so I declare, that religion is only part of social and cultural development, and will (and has to, as we hopefully advance in cultural development) fade away over the times - or become meaningless.
Your argument is false because its premise, bolded, is a discredited relic of a prejudiced view of cultural "progress" dating from the Victorian period. Its foundation (of which I'm sure you are not aware) is the assumption that modern (and usually white and western) cultures are somehow the highest expression of human potential, while the cultures of other people are somehow less developed but if they assimilate nicely "they" might get to be closer to "us." It's bull, and as a modern, white, American animist, I personally am tired of this offensive Victorian crap being trotted out by atheists every other week.
So...I guess my point is that you're right -- we would be wasting our thoughts if we put any to that "fact."
by Muravyets » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:32 am
Coffin-Breathe wrote:Muravyets wrote:Coffin-Breathe wrote:Has anyone ever wasted a thought to the fact, that there´s no religion "from the beginning", as would, imo, being, if god(s) is (are) existing and true ? But there is none, as all known religions or cults started somewhen in history, and many of them faded away over the times...
Primitive cultures tend to worship Animism, while they tend to adopt or develop some system of personificated god(s) when they advance; so I declare, that religion is only part of social and cultural development, and will (and has to, as we hopefully advance in cultural development) fade away over the times - or become meaningless.
Your argument is false because its premise, bolded, is a discredited relic of a prejudiced view of cultural "progress" dating from the Victorian period. Its foundation (of which I'm sure you are not aware) is the assumption that modern (and usually white and western) cultures are somehow the highest expression of human potential, while the cultures of other people are somehow less developed but if they assimilate nicely "they" might get to be closer to "us." It's bull, and as a modern, white, American animist, I personally am tired of this offensive Victorian crap being trotted out by atheists every other week.
So...I guess my point is that you're right -- we would be wasting our thoughts if we put any to that "fact."
Sooo - what´s your point now ? Am I right (as stated above), or am I wrong (as you stated on top) ?
Besides, while reading this carefully, instead of agressively cussing
, you would have found out, that I didn´t adress any "white" or "western" culture,
I stated (as most anthropologists) cultural advanced civilisations, which could be the ancient Egiptians or the Chinese, Mayans, Aztecs, Olmecs, aso too...
if you´re practising shamanism,
this might be fine for you, but doesn´t disprove my statement.
Nor did you answer to it in any way...only thing you really did, is interpreting my statement in a twisted and false way, while imputing allegations I never made.
by Nordicus » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:43 am
Muravyets wrote:I fail to see how merely describing the original Victorian-era argument
Muravyets wrote:I suggested that you are not aware of the invalidity of your argument's foundation.
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII wrote:Engineers hate biology, because it has very few right angles. Everything is all curves and bumps and the only penis-shaped items are actual penises.
Dregruk wrote:Kma2 wrote:How else could it be that they are so uneducated regarding what is going on in America.
Same as anyone else; I slaughter gibbons and frolic in their blood. Or just, y'know, disagree with you.
Tsaraine wrote:Somewhere in Philadelphia, one school administrator has just smacked another school administrator upside the head. "Damnit, Jenkins! I told you we should just have gone with chastity belts!"
by Muravyets » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:25 am
Nordicus wrote:Muravyets wrote:I fail to see how merely describing the original Victorian-era argumentMuravyets wrote:I suggested that you are not aware of the invalidity of your argument's foundation.
The problem is, though, that he is making it clear that he is not using the Victorian-era version of the argument. Would you consider it fair to discard the theory of evolution as "racist" and "bigoted" because people had used to use it to justify their unsupported belief that their skin color was better than a different skin color?
by Cameroi » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:33 am
by UnhealthyTruthseeker » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:44 am
by UnhealthyTruthseeker » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:48 am
by Monocrat » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:01 am
by UnhealthyTruthseeker » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:02 am
Monocrat wrote:Given that you're starting with a hypothetical situation, and that you are referring to believers as a group separate from yourself, I conclude that you may well be agnostic for lack of proof. That said, go with the religion which you believe best represents your pre-existing idea of an omnipotent all-loving deity. You are probably the best judge of which religion's view best conforms to your idea.
by Barzan » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:10 pm
by Urzamalandi » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:11 pm
Brogavia wrote:Start wearing white robes and hand out fliers at college campuses talking about how you have discovered the true path happiness and all that junk.
by Barzan » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:13 pm
by F1-Insanity » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:17 pm
by Barzan » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:18 pm
by Whole Conviction » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:45 pm
UnhealthyTruthseeker wrote:Since primitive means "Of or pertaining to the beginning or origin, or to early times; original; primordial; primeval; first; as, primitive innocence; the primitive church" it's pretty obvious that animism is primitive. It is the first, if not one of the first world religions, ergo, it is primitive. Ta-da.
by Nordicus » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:11 pm
Great Nepal wrote:Great god "OM"
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII wrote:Engineers hate biology, because it has very few right angles. Everything is all curves and bumps and the only penis-shaped items are actual penises.
Dregruk wrote:Kma2 wrote:How else could it be that they are so uneducated regarding what is going on in America.
Same as anyone else; I slaughter gibbons and frolic in their blood. Or just, y'know, disagree with you.
Tsaraine wrote:Somewhere in Philadelphia, one school administrator has just smacked another school administrator upside the head. "Damnit, Jenkins! I told you we should just have gone with chastity belts!"
by The Walden Estates » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:55 pm
by Milks Empire » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:20 pm
by The Walden Estates » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:26 pm
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