"Women want sex, just not with YOU."

[Fluffy Coyotes]

I've seen this talking point in many a comments section and blog post, and recently I've seen it in a thread here on NSG.

(In case anyone's wondering why I responded to a post from several pages back, it was because I had checked back for responses to my first post in that thread, the only one of which was Tahar Joblis' response to it; which I disagreed with only very slightly, not enough to want to post a rebuttal; and I came across that post of Bottle's from just a little further scrolling along the thread.)

Anyway, I'll repeat the relevant part.

I've actually rejected more women than I've been rejected by, and didn't particularly mind the latter, and I still don't think women want sex quite as much as men. (Though I agree with Tahar Joblis in that it's at least partly to do with how likely she is to orgasm from it.) If you don't believe me, here's a guy who isn't even interested in women and is convinced of the same thing. It's not based on projection, it's based on comparing whose reasoning seems more logical.

And quite frankly, automatically reverting to projection as if it's the only factor doesn't seem to reflect all that ideally on yours. o.o

What led to this talking point's popularity, anyway? The opinion attributed to undesirability was one that seems similar to opinions I've seen associated with frat boys, yet that doesn't seem to prevent them from having sex. We shouldn't need to present a counter-example anyway, though; it should be up to those jumping to conclusions to come up with the logical justifications for those particular conclusions.

[Tubbsalot]

What led to this talking point's popularity, anyway?

the xkcd comic.

[Fluffy Coyotes]

What led to this talking point's popularity, anyway?

the xkcd comic.

Which one?

[Ifreann]

I think I might die from what I'm about to type, but Stephen Fry saying something doesn't make it true.



Oh no, Stephen, I didn't mean, please take me back.

[Tubbsalot]

shit, i thought the title was a reference to a comic with basically that exact line, but i think i've mixed it up with this one

hhrnnndfngnjdfnks nevermind

[Fluffy Coyotes]

I think I might die from what I'm about to type, but Stephen Fry saying something doesn't make it true.

No, but the fact that he said it proves that resentment at rejection isn't the only reason for saying it.

shit, i thought the title was a reference to a comic with basically that exact line, but i think i've mixed it up with this one

hhrnnndfngnjdfnks nevermind

Ah, I've seen that one before.

For what it's worth, the irrelevance is even more transparent with talk of reproduction, as one can want to have sex without wanting to have children. But I'm not sure that's where the momentum came from. This talking point is used to dismiss gender difference with regards to libido or malleability thereof, not to dismiss views on reproduction.

[Ifreann]

I think I might die from what I'm about to type, but Stephen Fry saying something doesn't make it true.

No, but the fact that he said it proves that resentment at rejection isn't the only reason for saying it.

If it was quoted in the Daily Mail, I wouldn't take it as a fact that he said it at all.

[Avenio]

Why would women want sex less than men?

[Fluffy Coyotes]

No, but the fact that he said it proves that resentment at rejection isn't the only reason for saying it.

If it was quoted in the Daily Mail, I wouldn't take it as a fact that he said it at all.

I haven't heard him accuse them of misquoting him, though.

Why would women want sex less than men?

For millions of years they've had to risk bearing his child for the next few months. Therefore, they have more reason to be picky about who they'd have sex with or when.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Why would women want sex less than men?

For millions of years they've had to risk bearing his child for the next few months. Therefore, they have more reason to be picky about who they'd have sex with or when.

Says it all really.

[Mushet]

All women want sex with me, they're just in denial most of the time

[The Steel Magnolia]

All women want sex with me, they're just in denial most of the time

No.

[Avenio]

For millions of years they've had to risk bearing his child for the next few months. Therefore, unreadiness for that, and/or perception of their mate as unattractive, gives them more reason not to want it quite as much. At least on average, anyway.

If we were talking about pygmy shrews, you might have a point. The problem, of course, is that humans are not pygmy shrews.

We're social animals that have lived in mixed kin and non-kin groups for at least 6 million years. In those groups, the entire unit works together to gather food and protect the group as a whole from predation, meaning that picking a 'strong provider' or similar isn't as important. Again, if you were a songbird that might make more sense, but similarly to the fact that humans are not pygmy shrews, humans are also not songbirds.

As well, human females ovulate based upon biological cycles that are independent of the sexual habits or lack thereof of the person itself - which, of course, means that sex only rarely causes pregnancy. To contrast, cats ovulate at the moment of sex itself, meaning that every sexual activity is directly tied to an attempt at pregnancy.

So if the tie between sex and pregnancy is so strong in humans that the entire purpose of female sexuality is sexual selection and nothing else, why don't humans ovulate like cats? Evolutionarily, that sort of set up would make sense; as it stands, the way you've explained it, the female human is attracted to an ideal mate and has to (potentially) spend months having sex with him without causing a pregnancy. That's extraordinarily wasteful, energetically.

Can you think of a reason why this isn't the case?

[Grocery Store Music]

All women want sex with me, they're just in denial most of the time

No.

Mushet is kinda irresistible.

[Condunum]

...no. I reject your premise to the full degree. Women can, and do want sex just as much as men. In some cases, even more.

[Individuality-ness]

Because all women are inherently prudes, amirite? *roll*

[Anachronous Rex]

...no. I reject your premise to the full degree. Women can, and do want sex just as much as men. In some cases, even more.

The mistake is in thinking that women want sex in the same way, and under the same conditions.

"If I were her, I'd want sex right now, therefore the fact that she does not want sex means that she is less interested in sex then I am."

[Condunum]

Because all women are inherently prudes, amirite? *roll*

A five minute conversation with you disproves this idea. I mean this in the most friendly way possible. You are a perv

[Ifreann]

...no. I reject your premise to the full degree. Women can, and do want sex just as much as men. In some cases, even more.

And in some cases less.

In fact, I propose that it's inherently fallacious and sexist to compare anything to how much men want sex, because that's not at all a uniform amount.

[Anachronous Rex]

Because all women are inherently prudes, amirite? *roll*

A five minute conversation with you disproves this idea. I mean this in the most friendly way possible. You are a perv

Oh, everyone is.

Some of us are just more honest about it.

[Disserbia]

Hurray for generalizations.

[Anachronous Rex]

Hurray for generalizations.

Agreed. People who generalize are evil. *nod*

[Condunum]

...no. I reject your premise to the full degree. Women can, and do want sex just as much as men. In some cases, even more.

And in some cases less.

In fact, I propose that it's inherently fallacious and sexist to compare anything to how much men want sex, because that's not at all a uniform amount.

I know a few good examples of men who just don't give a rats ass about sex most of the time.

[Fluffy Coyotes]

As well, human females ovulate based upon biological cycles that are independent of the sexual habits or lack thereof of the person itself

Isn't that only in the sense that the cycle changes upon pregnancy? It's still a monthly cycle after sex, it's pregnancy that changes it.

Still doesn't address the OP's point, though.

Because all women are inherently prudes, amirite? *roll*

I'm talking "on average," not "across the board."

Still though, whether or not the talking point this thread is about is illogical is connected to, but not entirely dependent on, whether or not what it's said in response to is logical.

[Individuality-ness]

Because all women are inherently prudes, amirite? *roll*

A five minute conversation with you disproves this idea. I mean this in the most friendly way possible. You are a perv

Only because NSG made me as such.