North Korea launches ICBM in direction of US minutes ago

[Costa Alegria]

Er...

NK FLESH SHALL BE RENDED FROM THEIR BONEY, BONEY SELVES!

North Korea is indeed best Korea when its citizens no longer need blood.

Or food.

[Cenetra]

I love how they're using Windows XP. Love it.

Also, if they're testing it to launch a satellite, perhaps they should've fired it over China.

1. If you're trying to launch a satellite, you have to get it to a certain velocity. If you launch from west to east, you get as much as an extra 1000 MPH speed boost from the rotation of the Earth. On the other hand, if you launch from east to west, the Earth's rotation is working against you. Having to exceed mach 2 just to get the same angular speed you'd have just sitting on the launch pad means that you need a significantly bigger, more powerful rocket to make it into orbit. Even countries like the U.S. which have launch vehicles capable of launching interplanetary probes don't use retrograde orbits without a really good reason; North Korea would have to be even bigger idiots than they are to try that.

2. If North Korea wants China to STAY their allies, they can't exactly launch an untested rocket over their territory. Even well-tested launch vehicles sometimes fail catastrophically; whatever POS North Korea launches has a good chance of blowing up and raining debris over thousands of square miles. It's much better to have the debris land in the Pacific Ocean than over a populated area in China. Yes, Japan is kind of in the way, but it's a much smaller target than China.


Also, the thread title is sensationalist. While this launch may be a test for ICBM technologies that could hit the US, that's like saying a space shuttle was launched "In the direction of Africa."

[New Sapienta]

I love how they're using Windows XP. Love it.

Also, if they're testing it to launch a satellite, perhaps they should've fired it over China.

1. If you're trying to launch a satellite, you have to get it to a certain velocity. If you launch from west to east, you get as much as an extra 1000 MPH speed boost from the rotation of the Earth. On the other hand, if you launch from east to west, the Earth's rotation is working against you. Having to exceed mach 2 just to get the same angular speed you'd have just sitting on the launch pad means that you need a significantly bigger, more powerful rocket to make it into orbit. Even countries like the U.S. which have launch vehicles capable of launching interplanetary probes don't use retrograde orbits without a really good reason; North Korea would have to be even bigger idiots than they are to try that.

2. If North Korea wants China to STAY their allies, they can't exactly launch an untested rocket over their territory. Even well-tested launch vehicles sometimes fail catastrophically; whatever POS North Korea launches has a good chance of blowing up and raining debris over thousands of square miles. It's much better to have the debris land in the Pacific Ocean than over a populated area in China. Yes, Japan is kind of in the way, but it's a much smaller target than China.


Also, the thread title is sensationalist. While this launch may be a test for ICBM technologies that could hit the US, that's like saying a space shuttle was launched "In the direction of Africa."

Do you really think NK is doing this out of the goodness in their hearts.

[Maklohi Vai]

Imperialism by the west, directed to North Korea, is a blatant misstatement of facts. While the US is looking to have a greater influence in NK, there is no imperialism.


Let's get this reorganized.
1. Let's say this was a satellite. If so, there could be possibilities for cooperation, but these wouldn't likely succeed because a satellite can provide intelligence information. There is no way that the two Koreas would share that with each other.
2. You can't cite the KCNA saying it succeeded because they are a state run news agency. Please tell me you understand why this is not a valid source.
3. Thanks for showing me cooperation examples. It shows there is hope, but please also notice that are few, if any, military endeavors that are shared. Whether this is a satellite or a bomb, that is a military or intelligence endeavor. See point 1
4. By all external accounts, it was a missile, and it failed. Again, you can't trust the KCNA.

It's been corroborated by the South Korean military. It succeeded.

Really? OK, but I'd like a source point.

[The Corparation]

Imperialism by the west, directed to North Korea, is a blatant misstatement of facts. While the US is looking to have a greater influence in NK, there is no imperialism.


Let's get this reorganized.
1. Let's say this was a satellite. If so, there could be possibilities for cooperation, but these wouldn't likely succeed because a satellite can provide intelligence information. There is no way that the two Koreas would share that with each other.
2. You can't cite the KCNA saying it succeeded because they are a state run news agency. Please tell me you understand why this is not a valid source.
3. Thanks for showing me cooperation examples. It shows there is hope, but please also notice that are few, if any, military endeavors that are shared. Whether this is a satellite or a bomb, that is a military or intelligence endeavor. See point 1
4. By all external accounts, it was a missile, and it failed. Again, you can't trust the KCNA.

It's been corroborated by the South Korean military. It succeeded.

As a missile test maybe.As a satellite launch? Doubt it. Nothing I've seen other then the N. Korean goverment said anything about it getting into orbit.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

1. If you're trying to launch a satellite, you have to get it to a certain velocity. If you launch from west to east, you get as much as an extra 1000 MPH speed boost from the rotation of the Earth. On the other hand, if you launch from east to west, the Earth's rotation is working against you. Having to exceed mach 2 just to get the same angular speed you'd have just sitting on the launch pad means that you need a significantly bigger, more powerful rocket to make it into orbit. Even countries like the U.S. which have launch vehicles capable of launching interplanetary probes don't use retrograde orbits without a really good reason; North Korea would have to be even bigger idiots than they are to try that.

2. If North Korea wants China to STAY their allies, they can't exactly launch an untested rocket over their territory. Even well-tested launch vehicles sometimes fail catastrophically; whatever POS North Korea launches has a good chance of blowing up and raining debris over thousands of square miles. It's much better to have the debris land in the Pacific Ocean than over a populated area in China. Yes, Japan is kind of in the way, but it's a much smaller target than China.


Also, the thread title is sensationalist. While this launch may be a test for ICBM technologies that could hit the US, that's like saying a space shuttle was launched "In the direction of Africa."

Do you really think NK is doing this out of the goodness in their hearts.

I think that this quote sums it up rather well:

Daniel Pinkston, deputy project director of the North East Asia programme at the International Crisis Group, said the early launch suggested there had either been a misperception along the way or a deliberate operation to mislead observers.

But Pinkston said no one should be surprised by the North's decision to fire another rocket. "It would be absolutely illogical for them not to do it," he said.

"They have invested tremendous amounts of resources in this over decades. They want to possess the capabilities: this is dual use technology with both military and peaceful applications. They are supposed to be a strong and prosperous and powerful country ... this is what you do."

North Korea isn't a single-minded nation focused on stock-piling weaponry. Everything it does is more broadly geared toward being perceived as, and developing toward its interpretation of, a "strong and prosperous nation". Technological progression and military self-sufficiency are two cornerstones of that interpretation, and have been for decades.

[New Sapienta]

Do you really think NK is doing this out of the goodness in their hearts.

I think that this quote sums it up rather well:

Daniel Pinkston, deputy project director of the North East Asia programme at the International Crisis Group, said the early launch suggested there had either been a misperception along the way or a deliberate operation to mislead observers.

But Pinkston said no one should be surprised by the North's decision to fire another rocket. "It would be absolutely illogical for them not to do it," he said.

"They have invested tremendous amounts of resources in this over decades. They want to possess the capabilities: this is dual use technology with both military and peaceful applications. They are supposed to be a strong and prosperous and powerful country ... this is what you do."

North Korea isn't a single-minded nation focused on stock-piling weaponry. Everything it does is more broadly geared toward being perceived as, and developing toward its interpretation of, a "strong and prosperous nation". Technological progression and military self-sufficiency are two cornerstones of that interpretation, and have been for decades.

You really, honestly belive, they would rather shoot up a satellite than have the poewr to nuke America?

[OMGeverynameistaken]

You really, honestly belive, they would rather shoot up a satellite than have the poewr to nuke America?

Really, having the power to nuke America doesn't help North Korea all that much.

Their main protection from a US invasion is China. Even IF they had nuclear weapons and a reliable delivery system, they know full well that they could at best take out a few west coast cities, or Hawaii, while the US could effectivly reduce their entire country to ash.

I would much rather have an intelligence satellite hovering over the DMZ than nuclear weapons, if I was in North Korea's position.

[New Sapienta]

You really, honestly belive, they would rather shoot up a satellite than have the poewr to nuke America?

Really, having the power to nuke America doesn't help North Korea all that much.

Their main protection from a US invasion is China. Even IF they had nuclear weapons and a reliable delivery system, they know full well that they could at best take out a few west coast cities, or Hawaii, while the US could effectivly reduce their entire country to ash.

I would much rather have an intelligence satellite hovering over the DMZ than nuclear weapons, if I was in North Korea's position.

You do know China and North Korea have been growing more seperate as time goes on right?

[The Joseon Dynasty]

I think that this quote sums it up rather well:



North Korea isn't a single-minded nation focused on stock-piling weaponry. Everything it does is more broadly geared toward being perceived as, and developing toward its interpretation of, a "strong and prosperous nation". Technological progression and military self-sufficiency are two cornerstones of that interpretation, and have been for decades.

You really, honestly belive, they would rather shoot up a satellite than have the poewr to nuke America?

North Korea has no intention to nuke America, so their interest in the capabilities just exists as a demonstration of military strength. Nothing more, really.

And they do have priorities that exist outside of the military, surprisingly. You probably wouldn't have that impression if all you viewed were local new sources, whose interest in North Korea, understandably, exists only insofar as it impacts the outside world. Other developments are usually left unreported.

So, yes, I would believe that the satellite itself is of importance to North Korea. To them, it represents an ability to match more developed countries on the technological stage.

[Chronic Hypersomnia]

North Korea is a sad little place where sad little things get launched from.

[New Sapienta]

You really, honestly belive, they would rather shoot up a satellite than have the poewr to nuke America?

North Korea has no intention to nuke America, so their interest in the capabilities just exists as a demonstration of military strength. Nothing more, really.

And they do have priorities that exist outside of the military, surprisingly. You probably wouldn't have that impression if all you viewed were local new sources, whose interest in North Korea, understandably, exists only insofar as it impacts the outside world. Other developments are usually left unreported.

So, yes, I would believe that the satellite itself is of importance to North Korea. To them, it represents an ability to match more developed countries on the technological stage.

Because nukes have no deterrent value aginst invasions.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

North Korea has no intention to nuke America, so their interest in the capabilities just exists as a demonstration of military strength. Nothing more, really.

And they do have priorities that exist outside of the military, surprisingly. You probably wouldn't have that impression if all you viewed were local new sources, whose interest in North Korea, understandably, exists only insofar as it impacts the outside world. Other developments are usually left unreported.

So, yes, I would believe that the satellite itself is of importance to North Korea. To them, it represents an ability to match more developed countries on the technological stage.

Because nukes have no deterrent value aginst invasions.

They do. That's their primary interest in them. But it isn't their only national priority.

[Cenetra]

Do you really think NK is doing this out of the goodness in their hearts.

Of course not. I think they're most likely trying to develop an ICBM. I'm just pointing out that "firing it over China" would be a monumentally terrible idea for a variety of reasons.

[New Sapienta]

Because nukes have no deterrent value aginst invasions.

They do. That's their primary interest in them. But it isn't their only national priority.

No, but I am fairly sur eit ranks higher than just satellites.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

Really, having the power to nuke America doesn't help North Korea all that much.

Their main protection from a US invasion is China. Even IF they had nuclear weapons and a reliable delivery system, they know full well that they could at best take out a few west coast cities, or Hawaii, while the US could effectivly reduce their entire country to ash.

I would much rather have an intelligence satellite hovering over the DMZ than nuclear weapons, if I was in North Korea's position.

You do know China and North Korea have been growing more seperate as time goes on right?

There have been political divisions, but they've become much more integrated economically in recent years. A researcher I spoke to claimed that now 80% of all North Korean trade is with China, and that this represents both an absolute and proportional growth over time.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

They do. That's their primary interest in them. But it isn't their only national priority.

No, but I am fairly sur eit ranks higher than just satellites.

Perhaps. But that doesn't mean that the satellite itself is of no meaning to them. As I said, it represents technological progression, which is a cornerstone of the North Korean self-image as a "strong and prosperous nation".

[Pax Alba]

NK could be spending their time on improving the quality of life for their citizens--oh WAIT. I forgot, there's nothing wrong with North Korea! Western propaganda is only making it seem like the "Great Leader" is lying! Of course! It's all a plot to instigate the downfall of their great nation!

I give up on you, NK. There just seems to be no hope. /shakes head

[The Joseon Dynasty]

It's been corroborated by the South Korean military. It succeeded.

As a missile test maybe.As a satellite launch? Doubt it. Nothing I've seen other then the N. Korean goverment said anything about it getting into orbit.

It's been corroborated by the South Korean military. It succeeded.

Really? OK, but I'd like a source point.

Now both NORAD and the South Korean military have tentatively confirmed both the launch and the satellite deployment as successful.

More definitive reports will be forthcoming, I suspect.

[United Kingdom of Poland]

Well, at least it wasn't New York City.

'Cause if some North Korean thinks he can blow up Broadway, Sondheim and Andrej Pejic and get away with it...he is sorely mistaken. *grabs rifle*

Its New York City, guns are barely legal. *takes back rifle*

If someone nukes us, I'm guessing gun enforcement wont be that big of a concern.
and just incase, here catch * throws a rifle to him from Buffalo, New york*

[The Backyard of Ron Paul]

damn, they almost took our freedom.

[United Kingdom of Poland]

here is an easy fix to this.
*goes to japan and erases the part of the japanese constitution that prohibits wars of aggression.*

[The Backyard of Ron Paul]

I am positive that legalizing drugs will somehow fix this.

I swear, guys.

[Maklohi Vai]

Now both NORAD and the South Korean military have tentatively confirmed both the launch and the satellite deployment as successful.

More definitive reports will be forthcoming, I suspect.

You have blatantly skewed what this says. This does not say the West is saying it's a satellite.



Here's the highlights of the article, which is from Wikinews, by the way:

"North Korea has successfully launched a long range rocket.

Not a satellite, a rocket.

"The rocket stages fell on areas in line with its earlier announcement and the launch appears to be successful," said a South Korean military official as quoted by Yonhap. North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) also confirmed the successful launch in a statement saying, "Initial indications are that the first stage fell into the Yellow Sea. The second stage was assessed to fall into the Philippine Sea. Initial indications are that the missile deployed an object that appeared to achieve orbit." Pieces of the rocket stages reportedly fell into the sea near the coast of the Philippines.

A rocket was successfully deployed, not a satellite.

North Korea says the Unha-3 rocket carried a Kwangmyŏngsŏng-3 weather satellite which was successfully placed into orbit. "The second version of satellite Kwangmyongsong-3 successfully lifted off from the Sohae Space Center by carrier rocket Unha-3 on Wednesday. The satellite entered its preset orbit," said the North Korean government in a statement via the Korean Central News Agency.

So you're going with the North Korean version of things, which say it's a satellite. Please tell me you don't really believe this. The North Korean media is about as unreliable as it gets.

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, the chairwoman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and a republican congresswoman representing Florida, condemned the launch saying it's an example that North Korea is "moving ever closer towards its ultimate goal of producing a nuclear ballistic missile".

Missile, not satellite.

This is the second long range rocket North Korea fired this year. In April, the country failed at an attempt to launch a multistage rocket into orbit in honor of the anniversary of Kim Il-sung's 100th birthday. The government publicly acknowledged its rocket broke up in flight over ocean waters before ever making it into orbit."

Rocket.

It's a rocket. Stop trying to say otherwise, please.

[The Corparation]

Now both NORAD and the South Korean military have tentatively confirmed both the launch and the satellite deployment as successful.

More definitive reports will be forthcoming, I suspect.

You have blatantly skewed what this says. This does not say the West is saying it's a satellite.

Page links to NORAD. They have this to say:

PETERSON AIR FORCE BASE, Colo. - North American Aerospace Defense Command officials acknowledged today that U.S. missile warning systems detected and tracked the launch of a North Korean missile at 7:49 p.m. EST. The missile was tracked on a southerly azimuth. Initial indications are that the first stage fell into the Yellow Sea. The second stage was assessed to fall into the Philippine Sea. Initial indications are that the missile deployed an object that appeared to achieve orbit. At no time was the missile or the resultant debris a threat to North America.

Emphasis mine.sauce